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'51 Chieftain - On The Road


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Alrighty, does anyone have for sale, individually, the bushings for the pitman arm shaft on a '51 manual steering box?

The ball bearings on the steering shaft are fine and have adjusted up but the lower pitman arm shaft bushing is well out of spec.

 

Thanks

 

Phil

Edited by PhilAndrews (see edit history)
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Set out for Cruisin' The Coast. 

20201010_134350.thumb.jpg.bab1976121da3bf2732ee472d445f7c3.jpg

Got as far as New Orleans before mechanical issues caused the trip to be abandoned.

Gearbox governor valve started to stick again, causing the gears to hang up in low range.

 

For a first major trip that's not bad, just as single issue. I can fix it (either repair the valve again or replace it with one that's less worn).

 

Things to note:

Engine is a lot more rev-happy than I gave it credit for; it really starts to come on cam about 2200rpm.

Air conditioning would be nice

Brakes need adjusting again

Fuel economy isn't great, 9.3mpg average over 117 miles.

Steering and suspension really need work

 

Overall worse than hoped for, better than feared.

 

Phil

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20201010_195025.thumb.jpg.725f94def05d926889fe71da9af86ea1.jpg

That's not a bad lineup, really. 

 

Engine hadn't used much oil at all (dropped maybe 1/8" on the dipstick for the last 140 miles), and it hasn't used any coolant at all, that's where I topped it up the day before yesterday.

Happy with the engine side of things but I definitely need to make up a heat shield for the carburetor, the car really doesn't do well in traffic.

 

Phil

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Question: Fuel pump.

There's a hole (small, round, appears to be meant to be there) that's been spitting engine oil EVERYWHERE. 

Should it have a baffle, filter, anything? Should it not be there?

 

It makes a horrific mess. I think I've lost more oil through it than out of the exhaust, burned.

 

Thanks

 

Phil

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Hey Phil,

If your fuel pump is anything like the combination fuel/vacuum pump in my '53 Buick, get used to the oil leak from the pump.  I've discovered that it's dry for about 1000-2000 miles, and then it starts weeping, and eventually it's a full-fledged leak.  It doesn't matter if I rebuild it or buy a rebuilt one; I use some lawn mower foam air filter material and a binder clip as an "oil catcher," and I just replace it or flip it around every once in a while.  Maybe others have been luckier or smarter than I am.  

Aaron

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5 minutes ago, PhilAndrews said:

This is a little worse than I would like.

It's spattered as far back as the firewall.

Yeah, you need to fix that.  Mine is more like a drip on the ground once it overflows the lip of the pump.  

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Nose is sitting a little low, saggy springs. Not bad overall though. Body is better than mine.

 

I just sent an email to Fatsco about the gearbox governor. They have 2 part numbers listed and I do not know the difference.

 

Once I know more I'll be able to get that sorted out.

 

Phil

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1 hour ago, PhilAndrews said:

Nose is sitting a little low, saggy springs. Not bad overall though. Body is better than mine.

 

I just sent an email to Fatsco about the gearbox governor. They have 2 part numbers listed and I do not know the difference.

 

Once I know more I'll be able to get that sorted out.

 

Phil

I know it's low, but not any lower than yours. The only difference is your rear end is also too low.

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12 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

And the chassis scrapes driving over a steep driveway.

 

I'm used to that, my Dodge does the same but it's factory standard height!

My main issue is hammering the bump stops over uneven pavement. Do not like that, quick way to crack the frame.

 

Phil

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12 minutes ago, PhilAndrews said:

 

I'm used to that, my Dodge does the same but it's factory standard height!

My main issue is hammering the bump stops over uneven pavement. Do not like that, quick way to crack the frame.

 

Phil

If you set your Pontiac suspension to stock,  your car will ride a whole lot better and you won't have that problem.

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3 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

If you set your Pontiac suspension to stock,  your car will ride a whole lot better and you won't have that problem.

I agree. 

 

I've other things to address before that though, namely more worn out parts.

 

However, the electrical system is operating nicely, the cooling is working very well, engine is running alright, gearbox was doing well until the governor valve stuck, it wasn't using excessive oil other than the fuel pump leaking everywhere but the front suspension really needs a refresh because it's more of a fight to drive than it should be.

 

Overall it rides well enough, just a few exceptional times it didn't cope well due to the modification.

 

I'm working on it to improve it. The suspension itself is a reasonably good design so I'm not going to play with it (no Mustang-II front clip, etc), instead bring it back to a more serviceable condition.

 

Phil

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Hey Phil! This just came up on a buy and sell just 3 hours from me. They're asking $2,000 USD. That's about what these project cars go for around here. 

Saw it and thought of you.....no info on the engine condition. 

Mark

 

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1696665174__59(2).jpg.d19def40c9b7a140d3a0eb683d877737.jpg

 

 

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1 hour ago, The 55er said:

It's a Canadian model Pontiac.

With the base model hood emblem, badging, dash switches, horn push, no clock etc etc.

 

You could order them like that in the States too.

 

Phil

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Well, funny things.

 

I fixed the gearbox with a tool known as Occam's Razor.

 

(Check the modulator arm linkage hasn't come loose)

 

I'll have to get the gearbox good and hot again to check that actually was the culprit, but it's changing gears nicely again.

 

Phil

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I remember at one of the shows a couple fella's were scoffing at my heat shield. Saying, "you think that thing you made helps at all?" I said, "I dunno, guess the engineer's that designed it must know something." Actually got a couple blank stares.....

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2 hours ago, PhilAndrews said:

Yeah, like I said to a number of people... If GM didn't have to fit something, they didn't fit it and instead saved that money.

It's on many GM cars right up to the introduction of fuel injection. I have them on street and race cars...they work.

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3 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

It's on many GM cars right up to the introduction of fuel injection. I have them on street and race cars...they work.

I'm hoping it makes a difference. I'm more used to crossflow engines where it's less of an issue, but then carb icing and other fun games begin to occur.

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4 minutes ago, PhilAndrews said:

I'm hoping it makes a difference. I'm more used to crossflow engines where it's less of an issue, but then carb icing and other fun games begin to occur.

Tell me something?. When the intake charge is drawn into the cylinder- intake valve open, compressed- both valves closed, ignited and driven down- both valves closed, finally exhausted-exhaust valve open. What difference which side of the cylinder does incoming  mixture flow and exhaust stroke flow make? There are plenty of Overhead valve engines that intake and exhaust on the same side.   

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54 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

Tell me something?. When the intake charge is drawn into the cylinder- intake valve open, compressed- both valves closed, ignited and driven down- both valves closed, finally exhausted-exhaust valve open. What difference which side of the cylinder does incoming  mixture flow and exhaust stroke flow make? There are plenty of Overhead valve engines that intake and exhaust on the same side.   

When the engine is idling for extended periods after a high speed run, the reduced airflow allows heat soak from the exhaust manifold off it's right next to the intake. With the manifold further away the effect is lessened.

In regular highway running it's not a problem because the airflow from the fan is greatly improved.

Edited by PhilAndrews (see edit history)
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20 hours ago, PhilAndrews said:

20201017_161626.thumb.jpg.4ed8f97f33026805f068038a7c4302f5.jpg

New carburetor heat shield, thanks to cevensky. Hoping that'll help mitigate hot-in-traffic lumpy running.

 

Phil

i hope you also have the thick carburetor insulator gasket to cut down the heat transfer to the carburetor, to work with this factory heat shield.

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1 hour ago, pontiac1953 said:

i hope you also have the thick carburetor insulator gasket to cut down the heat transfer to the carburetor, to work with this factory heat shield.

Thankfully that's still there, just the heat shield was not present.

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6 hours ago, PhilAndrews said:

When the engine is idling for extended periods after a high speed run, the reduced airflow allows heat soak from the exhaust manifold off it's right next to the intake. With the manifold further away the effect is lessened.

In regular highway running it's not a problem because the airflow from the fan is greatly improved.

 

Tell me something?. When the intake charge is drawn into the cylinder- intake valve open, compressed- both valves closed, ignited and driven down- both valves closed, finally exhausted-exhaust valve open. What difference which side of the cylinder does incoming  mixture flow and exhaust stroke flow make? There are plenty of Overhead valve engines that intake and exhaust on the same side.   

 

 

The answer to my question is There isn't.

Edited by Pfeil (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, Pfeil said:

 

Tell me something?. When the intake charge is drawn into the cylinder- intake valve open, compressed- both valves closed, ignited and driven down- both valves closed, finally exhausted-exhaust valve open. What difference which side of the cylinder does incoming  mixture flow and exhaust stroke flow make? There are plenty of Overhead valve engines that intake and exhaust on the same side.   

 

 

The answer to my question is There isn't.

When the exhaust and intake manifolds are on different sides of the head, the heat from the exhaust doesn't affect the carburetor and intake manifold, because it's not right underneath them as it is on most American inline engines.  Modern gas boils and expands at a fairly low temperature, so anything you can do to keep the carburetor cooler will help a car with heat soak issues after a long run on the highway.  This may not have been a problem when these cars were new, but it is now.  I know exactly what he's talking about; I run a return line back to the tank on my straight-8 Buick to bleed fuel pressure after shutdown.  Carbking on this forum turned me on to that idea about 10 years ago.

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11 minutes ago, Aaron65 said:

When the exhaust and intake manifolds are on different sides of the head, the heat from the exhaust doesn't affect the carburetor and intake manifold, because it's not right underneath them as it is on most American inline engines.  Modern gas boils and expands at a fairly low temperature, so anything you can do to keep the carburetor cooler will help a car with heat soak issues after a long run on the highway.  This may not have been a problem when these cars were new, but it is now.  I know exactly what he's talking about; I run a return line back to the tank on my straight-8 Buick to bleed fuel pressure after shutdown.  Carbking on this forum turned me on to that idea about 10 years ago.

That wasn't the question.

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3 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

That wasn't the question.

In that case, I misunderstood too.

 

The direction the charge comes from can make a difference at high speed because of fluid dynamics but in an engine like this, no, not really.

 

My point was of the aspect of heat soak from the exhaust manifold.

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13 hours ago, PhilAndrews said:

In that case, I misunderstood too.

 

The direction the charge comes from can make a difference at high speed because of fluid dynamics but in an engine like this, no, not really.

 

My point was of the aspect of heat soak from the exhaust manifold.

No, that is incorrect. We are talking about vaporized fuel and exhaust gasses In two separate events, but it still doesn't apply to fluid dynamics either. When that exhaust valve starts to open and the piston pushes the spent exhaust out it doesn't matter which way it goes from a efficiency standpoint as long as all things being equal when comparing like valve diameter, port diameter and length and shape.

 

As far as heat goes in the flathead Pontiac intake manifold, it is controlled by the engine temperature and the exhaust temperature ( exhaust heat riser).

 Many same sided intake and exhaust engines intakes are not only temp controlled by the heat riser and engine temp but the intake manifolds are plumbed for coolant,  and their air intakes through the air cleaners are also heat controlled. Many carburetors like your Pontiac have heat shields to keep unwanted heat from them  

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Dropped the oil tonight and removed the side pan. Oil looks pretty clean. Changing it won't hurt at all, flushing the dirt out will help after these first 500 miles or so.

Removed the valve block, pipes, fluid sleeve and governor assemblies.

20201021_183713.thumb.jpg.ab3ec6577a99e671adfb6388a875b5e7.jpg

Typically my governor is a hybrid of the two listed at Fatsco. Early body, late piston.

The replacement is the late variant.

I need to get a couple new O-rings for the side pan and the drain plug, and a few gallons of ATF to refill.

 

Phil

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