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'51 Chieftain - On The Road


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3 hours ago, PhilAndrews said:

20200626_193522.thumb.jpg.5ba522e51f7ed5acc729700b837acf1f.jpg

Washed and put in properly.

that looks real good, best colors that i've ever seen in a mexican blanket interior.

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A while back I lost the trunk keys to this car. Since then I had removed the catch and the lid was just closed by gravity.

 

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I pulled the lock out and tried to figure out how it worked. It's a "side bar" type, and according to the Internet, cannot be picked with conventional tools.

 

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I used an old .0015" feeler blade that had broken off my set, a paper clip and a pair of pliers. Took about 40 minutes to figure out how to get the barrel out.

 

I decoded the barrel and went to the hardware store. I bought a key blank.

 

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Carefully filed it down to size. Now I have a key that opens my trunk and glove box! I'll get a spare cut from it.

 

Next up is trying to figure which blank the door buttons take. It's certainly not this one. I'll probably pull one handle off, bring it to the store and find the blank that fits and try cut a key to operate them.

 

Phil

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It SHOULD be that blank.... well almost.

 

GM cars from the mid 30s to the mid 60s or maybe longer had 2 different style blanks for 2-key cars. The head was the only difference. It should go in.

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7 minutes ago, Bloo said:

It SHOULD be that blank.... well almost.

 

GM cars from the mid 30s to the mid 60s or maybe longer had 2 different style blanks for 2-key cars. The head was the only difference. It should go in.

 

You're right. I was trying to put it in upside down because I hadn't looked at it closely.

 

Doesn't operate the lock though. Guessing they got changed at some point. I'll probably try to redo them to the ignition key.

 

Phil

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It may not have ever had the same key. Some (many?) Pontiacs used one key for the ignition and doors, and the other for glovebox and trunk. Not sure if that applies to your year. I can't remember which head was which either. Someone in here probably knows.

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You are correct. Two different keys, one for ignition and doors, the other glovebox and trunk.

 

The ignition was long gone so whatever key it used to take was also long gone. I got 2 keys for the car. One did the trunk the other the aftermarket ignition barrel.

 

I changed the ignition to a GM one so it'll have to decode the door locks and go from there. If there are enough in common I might be able to recode the doors to the ignition key; if not I'll just have a door key, ignition key and trunk key. 

 

Phil

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Adjusted the catch, it now closes and doesn't rattle and opens with a positive clunk, which I prefer because you at least know it opened correctly.

 

Tried jiggling the door locks, no joy. How does the door release handle come off on the inside? The window winder is already off, as is the handle.

 

Phil

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The inside handle? It should be the typical General motors c-clip. Look at your window crank. There are various methods. One is a tool that slides under to pop the clip. GM used that basic design into the 80s at least.

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I tried to push the panel in a bit to be able to see- figured it would probably match the window winder but given the panel wouldn't yield enough I thought I would ask. 

 

I can probably grab it with one of my poking tools. Putting it back on will be the fun part. I need to remake the door panel anyway, the pressboard has gotten damp and fallen to bits.

 

Phil

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The door handle clips are a son of a b****! I've taken mine apart enough times to know. Door panels aren't so yielding for it. It should be the same as the window crank. 

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Does anyone have the GM key bitting code book? I want to translate the keys- the ignition should be stamped on the barrel, I'll pull that out tomorrow and look but the trunk lock isn't coded.

 

Is the glovebox barrel coded?

 

I think have the bitting codes for both, would like to see if I've calculated them correctly!

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Phil, I used my cheap poking tools to get them off. They’re closer to the business end of the handle than you’d think- get a good flashlight in there and push on that panel. And watch them fly! Making door panels is easy, good materials are easy to come by. I found great substitutes at Lowe’s, text or message for a detailed guide!

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Ah but the strength and durability (especially with our humidity) of that white pebbled shower paneling... so much for $32 and it cuts so well without falling apart! I’d encourage you to consider it, I tried that rough/smooth ply board and we didn’t get along. 

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20200630_163302.thumb.jpg.64597ea6bcaba981d3513e7f48c97399.jpg

Got the door card off and the handle out. Door card is nasty. Cut a new key for the door locks, that works now but I need a couple new O rings for the button spacers.

The lock pin is no more good and the driver's side rod is missing. I'm going to pull the passenger side one off and copy it.

 

Phil

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7 minutes ago, Summershandy said:

Are you speaking of the interior door lock knobs? I took a pic of a '54 if you'd like. 

The interior pins.

 

The ones on mine are mismatched and broken.

 

Phil

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I took a coat hanger hook, heated it and bent it to shape by guesswork.

20200701_205102.thumb.jpg.f6318d2eed7e5012d254dc45b67907d1.jpg

 

Added a length of wire insulation to bring the diameter up and give the pin something to grab to.

 

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Test fitted the window frame. That'll work. It goes up and down with a satisfying positive clunk.

 

Phil

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4 minutes ago, PhilAndrews said:

Next question.

 

How does the glass come out? Remove the quarterlight to allow it to tilt outward out of the channels?

 

Phil

the door glass or the vent window ?

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, pontiac1953 said:

the door glass or the vent window ?

The door glass, driver's front and passenger rear are fractured and I need to replace them. Thankfully all vent glass is good.

 

Phil

Edited by PhilAndrews (see edit history)
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48 minutes ago, PhilAndrews said:

but I didn't think the Starchief became a thing until '54?

 

That's what I understand. Thought it was the first year....at least that's what I've been telling everyone!

 

I just checked my Canadian title and it's TA....way to open the can Phil! LOL

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11 hours ago, PhilAndrews said:

The door glass, driver's front and passenger rear are fractured and I need to replace them. Thankfully all vent glass is good.

 

Phil

you have to remove the door panel, the access panels, unbolt the glass sash channel from the regulator cam track. 

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3 hours ago, PhilAndrews said:

Huh. On my title, under "Model", it's listed as "STA", but I didn't think the Starchief became a thing until '54?

 

Phil

car titles often contain misinformation typed in by a license dept. clerk, i once bought a 1966 GTO that was built in jan-1966, and it was listed as a 1965 model GTO, lol

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1 hour ago, pontiac1953 said:

car titles often contain misinformation typed in by a license dept. clerk, i once bought a 1966 GTO that was built in jan-1966, and it was listed as a 1965 model GTO, lol

 

Yeah, "Lost to the mists of time" is what I had figured. Wire why they couldn't have done symbolic storage for make and model rather than 3 characters, I'll never know.

 

One of the access panels was already conveniently missing. I need to get a light and mirror to see what's actually happening up there tomorrow.

 

Phil

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8 hours ago, pontiac1953 said:

you have to remove the door panel, the access panels, unbolt the glass sash channel from the regulator cam track. 

 

Ok. I'll have to try find an exploded diagram so I can understand it better.

 

Phil

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21 hours ago, PhilAndrews said:

The door glass, driver's front and passenger rear are fractured and I need to replace them. Thankfully all vent glass is good.

 

Phil

 

1593784224368934951383571183540.jpg

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7 minutes ago, pontiac1953 said:

 

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So if I'm seeing this correctly, the regulator arm end sits in the top cam track, crossbar in the upper and lower with a "scissors" action. 

Top cam track attaches to sash channel

Glass sits in sash channel

Glass moves in glass sash panel and division channel

 

So the way I see that comes out, the sash channel undoes from the top cam track, but surely something's gotta give- the division channel and regulator have to come out, vent out to tilt the glass out of the frame?

 

Phil

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4 hours ago, PhilAndrews said:

So if I'm seeing this correctly, the regulator arm end sits in the top cam track, crossbar in the upper and lower with a "scissors" action. 

Top cam track attaches to sash channel

Glass sits in sash channel

Glass moves in glass sash panel and division channel

 

So the way I see that comes out, the sash channel undoes from the top cam track, but surely something's gotta give- the division channel and regulator have to come out, vent out to tilt the glass out of the frame?

 

Phil

with the regulator unattached from the channel, you should lower it all the way down, then turn glass about 90 degrees and lift out of door, i know i had to replace the GTO's driver door glass, didn't bother the vent window at all.

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I'm not sure how well it's attached- the glass isn't attached to the sash channel.

I pushed the handle on properly and turned it- the channel attached to the regulator (divider channel) decided to flex. It's probably just thin air and rust at the bottom.

 

Phil

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We started with this.

 

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Tonight we are here.

 

Getting there. I've rerun the main power and charging circuit with 8AWG, which is a lot better for the 63A capable generator the car is fitted with. Added a shunt to the Ammeter so that's now capable of passing about 80A without damage. Much better.

 

Phil

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Bought a can of silicone lubricant and sprayed the window channels of the unbroken panes.

 

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They now go up and down smoothly. 

 

The others pulled out of the sash channel and from there the mechanism contacted the edge of the glass with enough force to fracture it.

 

New glass, new sash channel padding and that should see all the windows operational again.

 

 

Phil

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  • PhilAndrews changed the title to '51 Chieftain - On The Road

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