PONTIAC1953 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 3 hours ago, PhilAndrews said: All back together, runs nicely. Need to get a new set of manifold gaskets but that's pretty much done now. Phil awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summershandy Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 15 hours ago, PhilAndrews said: All back together, runs nicely. Nice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizz Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 On 3/10/2019 at 5:26 PM, PhilAndrews said: All back together, runs nicely. Need to get a new set of manifold gaskets but that's pretty much done now. Phil This is awesome!! I have two motors and I’m debating on whether or not to pull the one already installed and clean it up. Or just get it going and make the other one pretty. Either way I gotta know how you made the thing run like that outside the car. And I need specifics. The fog of ignorance is thick on my end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john hess Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Looks and sounds great Phil... I see your heat riser counter weight... Is that in the hot, open position? And is it functional? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Grizz said: This is awesome!! I have two motors and I’m debating on whether or not to pull the one already installed and clean it up. Or just get it going and make the other one pretty. Either way I gotta know how you made the thing run like that outside the car. And I need specifics. The fog of ignorance is thick on my end Grizz, the requirement is minimal. All it needs is a battery, the + terminal to the connector closest to the engine block on the solenoid (not the one with the fat copper connection to the nut on the starter motor!), battery - terminal to a ground point on the block, I used the one from the battery at the front top left, and a wire from the SW terminal of the coil connected to the + terminal of the battery in a fashion it can be pulled off in a hurry. I just stuffed the wire into the gap in the battery terminal. Fuel can on a pipe attached to the intake of the pump. Block the vacuum port on the pump if it's connected, at the manifold if not. Then, screwdriver between the little nut at the top of the solenoid to the big but with the battery wire on. That'll energize the solenoid, pull the gear to mesh and turn the engine over. Don't forget to brace the engine, it has a lot of torque and will flip itself onto its side if you rev it hard. To stop the engine, pull the SW wire off the battery. Phil Edited March 25, 2019 by PhilAndrews (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 43 minutes ago, john hess said: Looks and sounds great Phil... I see your heat riser counter weight... Is that in the hot, open position? And is it functional? John John I never checked to see if it moves. I can look up and see if it's open or closed when it's cold- it does spring against the bimetallic coil. I can heat that up with my torch and see if it changes position. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 John The hotspot in its closed position. That's there cold. After heating the bimetallic coil with my torch: It falls open under the weight of the offset mass. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john hess Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Mine is functioning, just mainly interested in comparing weight location on shaft. I had mine apart for bushing repair. Not much info on this type of repair. Trial and error mostly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john hess Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Yep, very close... Thanks Phil.... Looks just like mine.... John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 I'm going to take a look and see if it's closed itself back up a little later on. Feeling how much tension is on the spring, I would say yes. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summershandy Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 When I had my manifold off I changed the heat spring for fun. Also sprayed some high heat lubricant on the shaft inside and out making sure it moved freely. Sure could have used these photos a lot earlier as I had "position" questions at the time too haha. Thanks for sharing Phil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizz Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 I guess I need a new spring? I’m not certain but I feel like mine is pretty loose. A lot of good info I’m gonna have to re read when I finally get my garage set up. Waiting on warm weather so I can epoxy the floor and then I’ll start moving in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 (edited) Either that or it just needs to be pulled round one turn to re-index it and pull on the peg when cold. It should become loose when it's hot, tight when it's cold. Mine takes probably about a foot-pound to twist open when it's cold. I'll take a photo of the spring side tonight. Phil Edited March 26, 2019 by PhilAndrews (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 How the spring is located on mine. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john hess Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Good idea for the spring retainer... Mine keeps falling out.. I have an aftermarket spring and it is thinner material I guess.. won't stay in slot..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted May 20, 2019 Author Share Posted May 20, 2019 (edited) Gosh, where were we? Well, in about the same place because I've been focusing on a couple other projects that take a little less money. (Radio for this, radio for a friend's '33 Model A). I pulled the pitman arm off the steering box and pulled the shaft out the other day. There's a fair bit of slack in both the upper and lower bushings, leading to a fairly bad null zone at the steering wheel. Would anyone recommend a rebuilder? The shaft itself isn't too bad, just the bronze bushings and seal need replacing. There's a bit of slack in the worm wheel ball bearings also. Thanks --Phil Edited May 20, 2019 by PhilAndrews (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) Well, I've made a little progress with the car, other projects getting in the way (as they do). Cleaned up the steering box, got some John Deere corn head grease for it. Cleaned up the chassis and put some paint back on it. Started putting some paint on the firewall, scraping off the old tar paint underneath, going to replace it with rubberized stone chip to protect against heat and noise and road debris. I pulled the heater off, the valve's been leaking, though the thermostatic bellows still work. Going to send that off to be repaired. Cleaned the rest of the heater up, tested the matrix for leaks and it's good. Being as I've got it all apart, with the front of the car still installed, I'm guessing the heater fan has to come out downward out the bottom of the fender? I need to get in there anyway, I've just ordered a replacement automatic antenna to replace the one that was kindly removed by the previous owner. Phil Edited June 25, 2019 by PhilAndrews (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 7:17 PM, PhilAndrews said: Well, I've made a little progress with the car, other projects getting in the way (as they do). Cleaned up the steering box, got some John Deere corn head grease for it. Cleaned up the chassis and put some paint back on it. Started putting some paint on the firewall, scraping off the old tar paint underneath, going to replace it with rubberized stone chip to protect against heat and noise and road debris. I pulled the heater off, the valve's been leaking, though the thermostatic bellows still work. Going to send that off to be repaired. Cleaned the rest of the heater up, tested the matrix for leaks and it's good. Being as I've got it all apart, with the front of the car still installed, I'm guessing the heater fan has to come out downward out the bottom of the fender? I need to get in there anyway, I've just ordered a replacement automatic antenna to replace the one that was kindly removed by the previous owner. Phil that is your windshield defroster and water valve mounting, your heater is under the front seat, mounted in the floor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 Oh shoosh, pedantic! Yes it's the defroster and valve, but it's still a heater box...! I need to patch up the duct going into the under seat heater box, it's got a rusty hole in the front. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john hess Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Hi Phil.. you might want a helper with that heater fan .. especially with the fenders still on... Gotta work inside the wheel well for the screws... Then it will fall out the bottom where your antenna base is attached to the bottom of the fender.. just put mine on, but no fenders in the way... John 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 No antenna right now, so that's a help. I'll probably hold it up with string around the motor and have a go at the screws. They'll need a good soak in releasing fluid if that's the case, the fenders aren't bad but there's a bit of mud up back there. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 I've been working quite hard at things on the car lately. Lots of hours that go into not much to show. Removed the rust and gunk from the frame rails, firewall and underbody. Painted, undersealed then painted body color over the underseal. Started on the fender aprons. Yes, I know those aren't the right horns for the car but they were free and they have the correct tone. Cleaned out and filled the steering box with John Deere Corn Head grease. It's in need of rebuild but that have to do for now. Last night built a little table to put my gearbox on. My workbench has a stepped storage area underneath so I cannot lift the gearbox with the crane, so this was the alternative option. Gearbox is coming apart. Somebody has used rubberized sealant on the pans and I have a feeling a part of that may have been ingested and become stuck in the valve block. I need to pull the torus off also to replace the seals, the front leaks like a sieve. I'm looking around for the shop manual- the torus has 3 holes surrounding the main shaft, those are to put the locking tool into so the nut can be undone? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 ...and before anyone says, I do have the '51 Pontiac Hydra-Matic Shop Manual coming in the mail, courtesy of eBay. (eBay is still useful for some things). --Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summershandy Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 2 hours ago, PhilAndrews said: Removed the rust and gunk from the frame rails, firewall and underbody I spent hours upon hours and days upon days cleaning those areas with the engine in it's place. Scrapers, wire brush and screw drivers.... it does eventually pay off! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 Agreed, the change it made was significant. It was an area that the previous restoreres didn't really touch. Luckily there's very little rust in the area, the car appears to have spent its' life in areas where the roads are not salted in the wintertime. There was a lot of dirt and mud but no significant corrosion. Well, on the frame rails and body up front. rocker panels and door bases are a different story... --Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 The rod that actuates the pressure relief valve and forces the gear changes later- should it have a bunch of free play to the unloaded end? If not that might be the problem I'm having, the valve may be stuck not coming fully back. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 ... Never mind, the valve isn't stuck, but the spring isn't pushing it all the way through. I'll take the valve block apart and measure the springs. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 Waiting for the manual for this gearbox to arrive, I found myself without things to do. So, I grabbed a piece of brown plastic and set to work. Drilled and filed to shape. Cleaned up the connectors (exterior of them didn't get much of a clean), and recreated the driver's side headlight terminal block. Bolted in place. Significant improvement over the old broken fiberboard piece that was there. Gotta make one for the other side now. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 And the other side. Missing a couple of pieces. Bullet connectors for the parking light and turn signal, then. Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted July 26, 2019 Author Share Posted July 26, 2019 Glad I took it apart. The nut that holds the torus assembly together was loose, being held on only by the tab washer. Circlip removed, and the rest of the device slides off the splines. That's made the gearbox significantly more easy to move around. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 Can't find Brunswick green, Hunter green is horrible so picked the go-between of the original and what I have seen faded on various engines. Stripped the bellhousing off the gearbox and cleaned it up. Service manual stopped in Memphis this morning so hopefully New Orleans tomorrow and delivery Tuesday. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted August 1, 2019 Author Share Posted August 1, 2019 Decided to take the radiator to a local place yesterday to see what they thought of it. It's a Harrison, and the guy said it's "not normal" in terms of construction and the leak would demand it being recored- with $460 of core and labor adding up to nearly $900 I thanked him and decided to go home and look see if there's anything in the catalogs to fling in there just between times to get it running but there's not a whole lot on offer that has the correct spigot sizes or cooling capacity. I think I'm going to try clean up, locate the hole and solder it up to try get it to quit leaking. Was the radiator in the '51 Chieftain 8 automatic fitted to anything else? --Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 55er Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 You need a 1949-1952 Pontiac 8 radiator that's 2 1/2" thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted August 1, 2019 Author Share Posted August 1, 2019 Not many places make one that has both top and bottom hose 1 3/4", even fewer have the heater return spigot in the bottom tank. --Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted August 2, 2019 Author Share Posted August 2, 2019 Well, repaired the radiator cap. It had been leaking badly. Someone had thrown cold lead at it, ineffectually. Cleaned it up thoroughly. Fluxed too. Soldered in place. Doesn't appear to leak now (it leaked profusely before). Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted August 2, 2019 Author Share Posted August 2, 2019 That's not the tidiest repair ever. I'll see if it holds pressure tomorrow. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john hess Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Phil.... You might have just found your calling !!!!.. 2 years ago, $600 for my 53 recored ... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted August 2, 2019 Author Share Posted August 2, 2019 Soldering clean metal is moderately easy. Soldering dirty metal is less so and significantly less reliable. Trouble is, I'm not entirely sure of the construction of this where it joins the tank- so I'm blindly throwing solder at it in the hope that it's just the front lip that's leaking. My concern is I don't have a big enough torch to be able to desolder the entire thing and pull it apart, clean and redo it properly. However, my efforts seem to be better than those of the previous person who attempted repair on it. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilAndrews Posted August 2, 2019 Author Share Posted August 2, 2019 Inspection showed the seam was cracked further along the top tank. Soldered it up. Getting better at this soldering lark. Pressure testing showed that the seam is now watertight, a small crack now showing up under test. Cleaned that up and soldered it. High-tech pressure testing doesn't show up any more leaks, which is a start. $42 for tools and equipment. Beats $900 any day. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john hess Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Good job Phil.... I know it's frustrating... Tried to fix mine but just kept making more holes. Core was brittle. So had to bite the bullet and have it recored... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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