padgett

Thoughts on BJ Scottsdale

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Interesting to see how the times are changing. Original cars from the last century were mostly under $100k. Resto-mods and Ford GTs were over. Seems clear that group of well lubricated bidders want modern comforts in an original body.

 

I now have two "modern" cars and the rest are older and am afraid they show it. Even my 88 Reatta coupe is clearly overshadowed by an '11 Coupe (also GM), but then  I have always been more about the driving experience and usability than as a coffee table.

 

Anyone else noticing that the money is going more for non-original than original in 2019 ?

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I watched about 20 minutes, but that was all I could take. Five cars....all 60s Camaros. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few Chevelles, Corvettes and Mustangs, too.  I looked at the cars that had already sold day 1, 2 & 3 on their roster, and there was more variety. Some of those other cars:

  • 1974 Pinto $8,800
  • 1974 Eldorado convertible $12,000
  • 1959 Thunderbird $18,700
  • 1931 Ford Roadster P/U $22,000
  • 1992 Camaro $15,000
  • 1916 Paige Ardmore Roadster $16,500
  • 1933 Reo Flying Cloud Sedan $33,000
  • 1956 New Yorker Convertible  $66,000
  • 1937 Lincoln Panel Brougham $165,000
  • 1937 Cord Sportsman S/C Cabriolet $231,000
Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)

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Just one slice of the market/industry. Glad to hear it is strong on that side of the car world. I am sure the other sectors of the classic/custom car market are doing well. Quality has a market no matter custom or restored. Different auction houses work best for different types of cars. I recall a Duesenberg just setting a record. It is all out there, the custom/hot rod/street rod side is very large. I have always had original cars, and customs. Why not sit at both tables.

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Padgett,

 

Barrett-Jackson and other TV auction "shows" do not advertise them as selling restored or original cars only to satisfy people that belong to the AACA.  That is a given and at least from anything I have noticed.   So with that I see the "shows" as entertainment...nothing more, nothing less.  Change the channel or do a "search" on this forum for previous years on the same subject.  Nothing has changed.

 

Regards,

 

Peter J.

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Stock market goes down, as it has over the past several months, car prices go up. Many shocking figures this past week.

 

$125,000 1967 Chevrolet Pickup

$48,000 1989 Regal

$49,000 IROC-Z

 

These were all $20,000 vehicles no too long ago.

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I had the Barrett Jackson auction on more or less as background noise, never sat and watched for more than 15 minutes at a time. Nothing I'm interested in was selling for what the ex Walmart lot cars of 20 years ago are bringing. The 250-300 thousand Corvettes most likely cost close to that to build. The auction had no effect on what I collect. Bob 

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I taped the show every day and with about three hours behind the live stream I am able to skip the commercials and breeze through the lot in no time. This really cuts time looking at the box and allows time for doing other things. I believe maybe 1- 1/2 hours at most came out of SEVEN days of coverage. I did see two friends on the block one of which bought what looked like a very nice stock 69 Pontiac GTO convertible, Crystal Turquoise with parchment interior. 30K  

 

I always turn the sound down because the host is competing with the roar of the crowd and the auctioneer.

Also I'm so sick of hearing from the host: I had one of those cars when I was a kid, I raced somebody in one of those, I had a date in the back seat of one of those and had fun. It seems they all had 100 kids worth of experiences each. And for goodness sake stop calling a ST300 a Powerglide! 

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Sorry not interested in a used car auction like the one they had on Sat. evening. I watched for 10 min. and all I seen were used high end cars.

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I've heard a few negative stories about the hammer dropped quickly, one was a Hemi Cuda. If you search for Barrett Jackson lawsuit, you'll find lots of interesting reading. I think if Mr. Barnum were alive today, he'd be in on the action.

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First and foremost it's a TV show. A cable "reality" TV show, not too much reality, plenty of BS

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I watched it saturday night. never again..........

 

too many charities and restomods for me. not what Im in to.

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I've watched from time to time in the past....way in the past.....when they had some great cars to auction.  Now they auction street rods and resto-rods for the most part, followed by late model Corvettes, Camero's, Mustangs and the like.  The hobby I know and loved is practically gone.  I went to a local "cruise-in" Saturday night for something to do.  I had the only original car there, except for a couple of 70s vintage cars. I find I've already lived through the great days of old car collecting and enjoyment.  I'm selling off some now.....I bought a super young 28year old  Buick Park Avenue recently for AACA touring.  It has 3200 (yes hundred) miles on it now.  My high school 39 Buick is a fixture in our life.  The '41 Roadmaster will be around for another 5 years unless I need to sell it sooner because of health.  The hobby has moved on to the point now that I do not enjoy any local activity.

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1 hour ago, Dynaflash8 said:

I've watched from time to time in the past....way in the past.....when they had some great cars to auction.  Now they auction street rods and resto-rods for the most part, followed by late model Corvettes, Camero's, Mustangs and the like.  The hobby I know and loved is practically gone.  I went to a local "cruise-in" Saturday night for something to do.  I had the only original car there, except for a couple of 70s vintage cars. I find I've already lived through the great days of old car collecting and enjoyment.  I'm selling off some now.....I bought a super young 28year old  Buick Park Avenue recently for AACA touring.  It has 3200 (yes hundred) miles on it now.  My high school 39 Buick is a fixture in our life.  The '41 Roadmaster will be around for another 5 years unless I need to sell it sooner because of health.  The hobby has moved on to the point now that I do not enjoy any local activity.

I do not watch the auctions much either as I like touring better. I try to go to local cruise in's once in while to promote our local club tours. I took my 1912 McLaughlin-Buick to a cars and coffee and parked next to some exotic cars. Told them that real men and women drive brass on tour and crank start their cars.  Lots of fun! I also let all the kids sit in the car and try the bulb horn. 

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My experience as a hobbyist and as a professional in this business suggests that it is a mistake to try to make auctions, particularly the Scottsdale and Monterey auctions, mean something in terms of a big picture. Auctions do not reflect the entirety of the hobby and auction houses cherry-pick vehicles that they think they can sell and those in which they specialize. You don't see Gooding selling modified Corvettes and you don't see Barrett-Jackson selling 1935 Buicks. Yes, one or two oddballs may show up just to fill out the roster, but in general, auction houses specialize but only two auction houses have TV deals.

 

In addition, auction houses have a finite number of slots so they will try to maximize their revenues by consigning more expensive cars, which only makes sense. It doesn't mean the less expensive cars have vanished or all cars are now too expensive, only that a business in business to make a profit is seeking ways to maximize said profit. That means selling more expensive cars. Heck, I'm pretty fed up with dealing with the inexpensive stuff, too--nobody complains louder than the guys in the cheap seats.

 

And finally, it's TV. The producers of the auction broadcasts have been doing it for, what, 15? 20 years? They know what cars attract viewers. I can't tell you how many times I've watched them cut to commercial just as something unusual is staged--they stuck around for yet another red 1967 Corvette, but as soon as it's done and the lovely cream-colored 1939 Mercury convertible is rolling up, it's time to go to a commercial. They know that more viewers understand a Corvette than an ancient Mercury, and they also know that only a fraction of their audience are antique car fans or even car guys, period. A lot of non-hobbyists watch the broadcast and red Corvettes and late-model supercars are things even a non-hobbyist understands.

 

 Those are just a few reasons why evaluating the health of "the market" or the hobby itself just by watching one big auction on TV is a mistake. Don't get discouraged, don't assume that everyone in the hobby wants a resto-mod, and don't assume that prices have gotten crazy and rich people are fools. On an individual level, one car selling for $X is nothing more than a data point that we can use to establish general values. However, looking at the auctions as an aggregate tells us nothing about anything except maybe the extraordinary ability of big auction houses to round up a few thousand cars to sell every few months.

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9 hours ago, Dynaflash8 said:

 I went to a local "cruise-in" Saturday night for something to do.  I had the only original car there, except for a couple of 70s vintage cars....

The hobby has moved on to the point now that I do not enjoy any local activity.

 

Earl, it's probably your locality, more than the hobby,

that has given up on older, truly authentic antiques.

Don't you give up!

 

Take a break from Florida's sweltering summers and

revisit your old territory in Maryland.  Or come to some

events in southern Pennsylvania.  If you're in the 

right place, you'll see that antiques are alive and well.

Models from the 1920's blend well with 1940's and 1970's cars.

 

 

2010 Latimore show overall.jpg

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)
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BJ's audience and marketing is geared more towards the modified crowd.

The comments like "big block 427 , split window 1963 Corvette  Coupe" kind of bugs me.  All 1963 Vett coupes had the slit window and all 427s were big blocks.

Fully restored 1960 Ford F150  with a LS motor with Vintage Air is a modified truck not a restored truck.

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There is a reason there are five or seven different auction houses, and why basicly two or maybe three get all the "good stuff". I won't go into details, but auction spots are limited as Matt said, and thus, unless a big collection has a few low ball cars, you don't see the bottom feeder and modified cars at the big two houses. They want numbers, eye appeal, and future business, that's why when you see a pre war or large dollar rebodied classic at BJ or one of the other houses, it's usually for a  reason, like a estate manager who doesn't know what they are doing, someone who has burned their relationship with the big two, ect. The last thing you want to do is send you car to an auction that isn't the right venue...........and people do it all the time. Watch the dealers who buy at auctions......thay are all over the cars that are in the "wrong place" which means less bidders, less competition, and lower prices. Ask anyone in the industry who works for one of the auction houses what a "good" or 'great" auction car is.......... it has nothing to do with the year, make, or model. It's numbers, eye appeal, and  condition. When was the last time you saw an unrestored car run through one of the big sales that wasn't 250 or 500k or better. If your looking to buy a car at auction, the first thing you need to ask yourself BEFORE you even look at the car in person is.......why is this car here..........and that usually will give you an indication if it's worth your time. Ed

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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2 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 If your looking to buy a car at auction, the first thing you need to ask yourself BEFORE you even look at the car in person is.......why is this car here..........and that usually will give you an indication if it's worth your time. Ed

 

Bingo! I can't be the only dealer who sends his trash to auction, cars I don't want to put my name on. No test drive, no lift, no warranty, no explanations of history, nothing. Hell, I don't even have to be there to open the hood. Poof! It vanishes and becomes someone else's problem and if that guy's irate about it once he gets it home, he calls the auction house to complain, not me.

 

Do you really think that Barrett-Jackson has 2-3000 amazing cars at every big auction? Or do they have 20 or 30 great cars and a bunch of garden-variety stuff (and worse). Shiny on stage and on TV, but I always expect a car purchased at auction to be 20% worse than advertised. They ALWAYS have problems, usually significant ones that the seller couldn't resolve--hence, the auction route. Many auctions are still a dumping ground.

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I know a car hustler who sends several cars a year thru auctions, including the Big 3. He only touches up the paint and details the right side of the car since that's the only side auction bidders are likely to see. Many don't know that it's not illegal for the auctioneer to find "phantom" bids up to the reserve price of a vehicle. Many times there is only one real bid on a vehicle, the one that takes it over the reserve. The rest of the bids are figments of the auctioneer's imagination. No Reserve auctions are a better way to establish the real value of vehicles.

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Gotta love the chandelier bids............and the good old by bidding for his cousin or brother in law. Fact of the matter is, most good and great cars have people waiting in line for them long before the owner wants to sell. Basically its a numbers game. Not to be insulting, but any car under 100k is just run of the mill, inventory, sales unit, ect. Before anyone complains, 100k is just about what a new Cadillac SUV or a GMC loaded pick up will cost you now. Have you seen the price of a 25 horsepower John Deere tractor lately? 30-35K! Thus, using supply and demand, you don't get to the "major collector car level" till you hit six figures. Now, that being said, 90 percent of the fun cars I have ever owned and driven for long periods of time were less than 50k. And most of them were in the 25k range.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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59 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

Many don't know that it's not illegal for the auctioneer to find "phantom" bids up to the reserve price of a vehicle. Many times there is only one real bid on a vehicle, the one that takes it over the reserve. The rest of the bids are figments of the auctioneer's imagination. No Reserve auctions are a better way to establish the real value of vehicles

 

My dealer buddy does a lot of auctions and he tells me that they use hand signals for this.

He says look at the auctioneers fingers, If they are open its a fake bid, if they are closed its what he calls 'real money'.

I may have these signals wrong but you get the gist.

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My experience is you know there are phantom bids when they move on to the next car quickly. When there are real bidders, the auctioneer takes time to badger them into raising their bid.

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Agree it is entertainment and use the DVR. Most of the time I leave on x3 unless something interesting comes up. That way I can also watch before going to bed to put me to sleep.

 

Personally shop for cars mostly on Craigslist or people tell me about something. Do require AC.

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