Mark Kikta

1922 engine progress

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I want to do the rings on pistons 3 - 6. The compression on 1 and 2 is fine, and if it ain't broke, don't break it trying to fix it. Those 2 front cylinders don't wear because they sit close to the radiator and fan (and air coming in from car moving).

 

But if I can't get #6 out from the bottom I should just pull the jugs off it and do it old school. I can even take the jughead into the shop for touch up boring.

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Mark,

Can you, or someone else on here, explain the reason for the arrow being cast into the piston indicating that the piston needs to face in that direction toward the front end of the cylinder block?  In the one photo that you posted it appears that the rod is in the center of the piston from side to side.  I sure would put Teflon plugs in each end of the wrist pins for extra caution against the pin getting loose.  You are doing a great job on the clean-up.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Terry,

 

Actually the rod connection is offset just a bit even if you can really notice it, and that need to be on the camshaft side so the arrow is good.

 

Regards,

Mark

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How does that plug effect the oil that lubricates the wrist pin from the hole in the center of the wrist pin and is collected around the end of the wrist pin?

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Well just got my cylinder block back from the machine shop where he did some ridge removal, honing and hot tanking.  I finally feel like it's time to turn the corner and start putting the old gal's engine back together.

cylinder block back from machinest closeup.jpg

cylinder block just back from machine shop3.jpg

cylinder block just back from machine shop4.jpg

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Looks really good.

You might try going directly to Hastings on the rings. They are very good in helping and the prices are right.

 

The Teflon plugs have no effect whatsoever on pin lubrication. The bearing is actual;ly in the rod. I have has Teflon plugs in the pins of my engine for about 50 years with no adverse effect.

 

Based on my experience with the pin retaining screw coming out and the pin scoring the cylinders, I would not rely on that at all. The Teflon plugs make a scored cylinder an impossibility.

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The wrist pins are 3/4 inch as I measured them, so you need 3/4 inch buttons. I remember VW bug mechanics were using teflon buttons all the time in the old days for the same reason, I'm sure they still use them, if they are 3/4 inch that's where to get them. I put them in my '66 bug back in '73. VW Bugs were cute and fun and easy to fix but mechanically they were garbage, designed by Adolf Hitler's henchmen. They would break in the most ridiculous ways. Next worst thing to a Lada, worst car ever mass produced, the only thing worse than Nazi engineering was Commie engineering.

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On ‎6‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 12:54 PM, Morgan Wright said:

 

But if I can't get #6 out from the bottom I should just pull the jugs off it and do it old school.

 

I must respectfully disagree with you. The way to get 1 and 6 out from the bottom is no magic trick, dummy. You move the crank journal for those pistons over to the side *opposite* the cam shaft. In fact, the exact position of the crank needed to get 2 and 5 out, gets 1 and 6 out. Intuitively I thought to move the bearing journal over to the cam side, so the camshaft didn't block it. But for some reason the camshaft doesn't block the 1 and 6 piston. But to get 6 out you need to remove the oil pump and copper pipe. 

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So my my concern about using the Teflon plugs at the end of the wrist pins is for lubrication.  If the pistons have grooves to feed oil to the wrist pins and there is a hole inside the wrist pins to feed that oil to the connecting rod bushing, won’t the Teflon plugs prevent oiling the connecting rod bushings properly?

 

 

626778606_Pistoncloseupwith1stringoff.jp

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Posted (edited)

Maybe they funnel oil from the wrist pin to the rings. Wrist pins get plenty of oil from below, from oil mist and splash in the crank case. But rings have no source of oil other what what gets past the oil rings.

 

You can file grooves in the teflon plugs and it's win win.

 

.

Edited by Morgan Wright (see edit history)

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Mark,

I think that I'm gonna have to go along with Mr. Wright and what he says about the wrist pins getting oil from below.  The teflon plugs could be machined to just barely cover the outside diameter of the wrist pin and oil could still get into the pins that way.  There are several ways to skin that proverbial cat.  After seeing photos of your pistons with no internal snap rings to hold the pins, the teflon plugs are absolutely the way to go in your situation.  Now is the time to do this while the engine is down and before it goes back together.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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I think you guys are overthinking this pin plug thing.

The plugs are not tight enough against the bores or pins to restrict oil flow.

The pin bushings are in the rod and are lubed by a hole in the rod small end (on my engine) and from the inside of the piston, not the bores.

A good portion of the idea of the rings is to prevent oil from getting to the combustion chamber. Even extremely small amounts of oil passing will result in smoking and oil consumption.

Typically, the ring above the oil control ring is a scraper to "squeegee" oil back to the crankcase and out of the combustion chamber.

 

The 50 or so years my engine has had the pin plugs tells me they are not an issue.

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Posted (edited)

The pins are pressed into the pistons. There is no motion between pin and piston so no reason to lube, all the motion is between pin and rod, and the gap between pin and rod is lubricated from below. 

.

.

Edited by Morgan Wright (see edit history)

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So what folks are saying is that the the hole in the wrist pin under the connecting rod bearing/bushing is for oil to migrate out to the cylinder walls from below?

 

Im having a problem believing that. I believe the oil is collected between the top and bottom rings and the grooves on the outside of the piston leading to the wrist pin are to give that oil a path off the cylinder walls and aid in lubricating the connecting rod bearing

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Mark,

    Actually the dippers create a mist that lubricates the upper engine.

 

 

Splash+Lubrication+system.jpg

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Posted (edited)

I think the rings are lubricated by gasoline. The little bit of oil on the cylinder wall would make a sort of 2-stroke mix to lubricate the rings. 

.

.

Edited by Morgan Wright (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

Tonight I checked end gap on my new pistons before installing them. I installed the new rings on #1 piston just to see how they looked.  End gaps on the oil control rings were all .015. End gaps on all the other rings were between .030 and .025 .  I used a tool from Summit to ensure the oil control rings were square in the cylinder before measuring and used the piston to ensure the others were square in the cylinders before measuring them further inside the cylinder.

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Edited by Mark Kikta (see edit history)
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In the earlier engines the big end bearing was lubricated by the dipper

20190611_104340.jpg

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Mark,

 

Things are really looking good.  I sure wish that I was where you are with engine assembly.  Right now, it's hurry up and wait on my end.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Even my 39 Chevy has dippers to lube connecting rod bearings

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