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1922 engine progress


Mark Kikta
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7 hours ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

On this one, you have to pick which line is the 2-5 line.  The correct line is the one on the left because the ones that were done correctly at the other marks were closer to the first number.   Hugh

Can't this be determined conclusively by taking the circumference of the flywheel, dividing by 360, then doing basic addition to find the distance from the #1 TDC mark?

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It turned out that the flywheel on my '18 was not indexed correctly for the #1 cylinder, so the timing marks were wrong.

I determined #1 TDC by pulling one of the #1 cylinders valve cages. I removed the valve and replaced it with a piece of threaded rod. I adjusted the rod so the it would hit the top of the piston as I rotated the flywheel slowly.

I rotated the flywheel first clockwise until the rod struck the piston and put a mark at the "timing hole". Then rotated the flywheel the opposite direction until it hit the rod  and again placed a mark.

Then I rotated the flywheel until the 2 marks were at thye 6:00 position.

#1 TDC would be between those 2 marks and I placed a new mark there . I could also put the 7° After TDC by transferring the distance from the original marks.

A lot easier that tearing the engine down to relocate the flywheel.

(note the crappy hose clamp.. shame on me)

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Don brought up a very good point.  On my '16 D-45 (and I will think that the 1922's are the same way) there are no indexing marks on the flywheel and/or the crankshaft flange studs.  I center punched one of the studs and both sides of the stud on the flywheel.  I am just wondering if the two lines on the flywheel circumference has anything to do with the fact that the centerline of the cylinder bores is offset some from the centerline of the crankshaft.  I do not remember just where, but, somewhere here on the forums, this offset has been discussed in relation to the center of the piston to the center of the wrist pin.  These engines are almost 100 years old, but, there was still some pretty advanced engineering in them back at that time.  Mark, we will all hope that you got your flywheel marked to go back on in the right position.  Keep up this good work.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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From everything that I have read and from those who have gone through this procedure before, everything starts with the number 1 cylinder.  It has been noted that the timing mark on the starter/generator shaft gear is irrelevant.  Cannot argue with that.  The distributor rotor can be adjusted through the distributor cam.  Things can be set close enough this way to at least get the engine started and then the fine tuning begins.  Anyone who thinks that setting these old engines back together is a walk in the park had better think again.  There is a lot more to it than what you might think.  Just my humble opinion here.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Today I got my oil distribution tubes back from the radiator shop. They cleaned them up, repaired the broken joint, checked all other joints out and pressure tested it to 15 PSI. I feel good that I should not have any further issues with these.

oil tubes repaired3.jpg

Oil tubes repaired.jpg

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On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 6:56 PM, DonMicheletti said:

Onec I had a packing nut loosen and a valve cage rotate. I was surprising how the performance dropped off so quickly.  Took me a while to find the problem, I knew the offending cylinderI obviously had a miss, but no bad spark. When I pulled the cages to check for a burned valve , the mis-alignment became obvious

 

 

Been there done that.

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On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 4:26 PM, Morgan Wright said:

On the  1-6  mark on my flywheel somebody wrote "Kilroy was here."

 

I guess there were some real wise guys in the 1920's.

 

Doubt it. 


"Kilroy was here" is WWII graffiti attributed to some guy working for a ship yard. Not before WWII.   If that is written on your car, then someone was working on it since WWII.

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10 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

 

Doubt it. 


"Kilroy was here" is WWII graffiti attributed to some guy working for a ship yard. Not before WWII.   If that is written on your car, then someone was working on it since WWII.

 

I don't know. I opened the mailbox coil and saw a letter from André addressed to Benedict Arnold. I showed it to George Washington and we won the war.

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  • 1 month later...

Tonight I removed the fuel tank.  I need to get it to my radiator shop where they are going to clean it and check it out for me.  I was quite surprised how clean it looked.  I hosed the dust off and it looked great.  It looks pretty good inside too.  I don’t see any rust inside at all. 

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Don't ever, ever, ever, paint or coat the inside of a gas tank with anything. Anything, whatsoever. Whatever you coat it with, will sooner or later flake off and get into the gas and clog the filter screen. Plenty of people will sell you coatings for inside the tank, which may work for 5 or 10 years, but what about the guy 50 years from now, who buys the car and finds the inside of the tank was coated with all that now-deteriorating mystery coating that is falling apart into the tank? Gas tanks are made of steel, and clean steel it will be.  Fill the tank with water and generous amounts of Dawn detergent, to dissolve all the crap, shake it around like crazy, and rinse with water and let it dry, or rinse with water and a final rinse with denatured alcohol, to shorten the drying time. Now you have a gas tank.

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If a tank is leaky from rust, it's dead. Gas Tank ReNu requires that you media blast down to the bare metal, inside and outside, because it doesn't stick to rust. If the tank leaks because of rust, media blasting will knock off more rust and make it leak much worse. I have no idea what ReNu is, whether it's paint or an epoxy or whatever, but if the gas tank is rusted to the point that it leaks, you need a new gas tank.

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I just got the gasoline tank for the 1916 back from the folks out in Ohio who did the ReNu process on it.  For those who do not know what this is this is where they media blast the inside of the tank and it is coated with a ceramic material then baked in an oven to cure it.  I had this done several years ago for the 1920 and it has worked perfectly ever since.  I'm with Brian about this process.  It works and is definitely cheaper than going to the cost of having a new tank made.  I will post some photos of the tank before it goes under paint.

 

Terry Wiegand

Out Doo Dah Way

 

 

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Hi Mark,

Whatever you decide to do, I would recommend using electrolysis to remove all the rust on the inside of the tank.

Rust removal by electrolysis is all over YouTube.

 

This is one with a nice explanation for doing a gas tank.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Cleaning+Rusty+Gas+Tank+Electrolysis&&view=detail&mid=066A7465A7B1194FA18F066A7465A7B1194FA18F&rvsmid=C50249BBAC70824F8111C50249BBAC70824F8111&FORM=VDRVRV

 

Dwight 

 

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  • 5 weeks later...

I finally figured out how to get the rocker arm shafts out to inspect them and clean them up.  The oil wick inside them seemed to be OK. I poured oil into the shafts and the wicks absorbed the oil just fine.  After cleaning everything well I reinstalled them onto the engine and filled them with oil.

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Today I finally finished making my own version of an oil pan drain plug.  I was frustrated because I could not stop the original drain from leaking.  These things will likely leak plenty other places but I am not giving in on the oil pan drain.  So I made this contraption on my new mini lathe and it has not leaked a drop in a half a day.  I hope it works.   Here are a few pictures of my design.  The first picture shows the drain with the rotating plug removed. Then I put my pieces together with gaskets top and bottom and a copper gasket on the bolt on the bottom.  So far so good.

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  • 2 weeks later...

In an effort to keep this thread current and complete, I am just re-posting some pictures that I already posted in another thread. At least they will all be here for future reference.

 

  Next step for me involved taking the rocker arm shafts apart to clean and oil before re-installing them. The wick material inside the shafts seemed to work fine as it still absorbed oil as I squirted it into the shafts. The shafts twisted out of the holders and cleaned up nicely. All rockers seemed to be free but not worn much.  I was glad for that.  So all rocker arms and shafts are installed.

rocker arm shaft4.jpg

rocker arm shafts.jpg

rocker arm.jpg

rocker arm shaft6.jpg

Edited by Mark Kikta (see edit history)
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So next I installed lifters, push rods and holders. Before bolting the starter back on, I cleaned the sliding gears and overrun clutch as good as I could.  I tried to knock the shaft out so I could take the gears apart to clean, but I could not get the shaft out.  I was afraid to keep beating on it since I didn't want to brake anything, so I used several cans of brake clean and then lubricated the shaft and clutch with a light oil.  Everything seems to operate as it is supposed to,  so I am moving on.

sliding gears for starter.jpg

sliding gears 2.jpg

sliding gears.jpg

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My newly re-manufactured water pump shaft fit perfectly, thanks to Larry Schramm and his work making it for me.  I needed to drill the hole in the proper location to pin/bolt the oldham coupling properly so the starter would function properly.  I taped a shim to the coupling spacer of sheet metal .045 in thickness to ensure I did not get the coupling mounted with too tight of clearance to the starter.  I slid the coupling in place and punched a mark in the shaft so I could then remove it and use my drill press to drill properly.  I ordered a 1/4 shoulder screw from McMaster-Carr and I decided to bolt the coupling to the shaft so I can then remove and replace easier as required in the future.  I drilled a pilot hole in the shaft and then plan to fit the bolt after I get it.   

 

Also fitted the shaft at the timing gear end and it fit great.

test fitting water pump shaft 4.jpg

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fitting oldham coupling shaft marked to drill.jpeg

fitting shaft at gears.jpeg

Edited by Mark Kikta (see edit history)
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I finally got my new water pump shaft installed. As you can see it fits great and I used a stainless shoulder bolt to attach the coupling instead of a pin.  The bolt will make it much easier to work around. On to the fan as I work my way around to the left side.

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Did you have any problem getting that iron oil plug (for the pump shaft bearing) out of the aluminum block? Mine had an aluminum plug which was welded in and broke right off when I tried.....so much for similar metals. I had a huge problem, had to drill it out, tap a bigger hole, find a bigger plug, and clean all the aluminum shards out of the timing gear case. Luckily the gear cover was still off.

 

I see yours is painted, have you taken it out yet?

.

 

plug.jpg

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Mark,

 

I see that you still have the Blue gasket material between the water pump shaft bearing and the back side of the timing gear case.  Are you planning to remove that and possibly use a Silicone Sealant for the mating surfaces?  Everything sure looks good and especially that new shaft.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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