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1922 engine progress


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I want to do the rings on pistons 3 - 6. The compression on 1 and 2 is fine, and if it ain't broke, don't break it trying to fix it. Those 2 front cylinders don't wear because they sit close to the radiator and fan (and air coming in from car moving).

 

But if I can't get #6 out from the bottom I should just pull the jugs off it and do it old school. I can even take the jughead into the shop for touch up boring.

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Mark,

Can you, or someone else on here, explain the reason for the arrow being cast into the piston indicating that the piston needs to face in that direction toward the front end of the cylinder block?  In the one photo that you posted it appears that the rod is in the center of the piston from side to side.  I sure would put Teflon plugs in each end of the wrist pins for extra caution against the pin getting loose.  You are doing a great job on the clean-up.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Well just got my cylinder block back from the machine shop where he did some ridge removal, honing and hot tanking.  I finally feel like it's time to turn the corner and start putting the old gal's engine back together.

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Looks really good.

You might try going directly to Hastings on the rings. They are very good in helping and the prices are right.

 

The Teflon plugs have no effect whatsoever on pin lubrication. The bearing is actual;ly in the rod. I have has Teflon plugs in the pins of my engine for about 50 years with no adverse effect.

 

Based on my experience with the pin retaining screw coming out and the pin scoring the cylinders, I would not rely on that at all. The Teflon plugs make a scored cylinder an impossibility.

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The wrist pins are 3/4 inch as I measured them, so you need 3/4 inch buttons. I remember VW bug mechanics were using teflon buttons all the time in the old days for the same reason, I'm sure they still use them, if they are 3/4 inch that's where to get them. I put them in my '66 bug back in '73. VW Bugs were cute and fun and easy to fix but mechanically they were garbage, designed by Adolf Hitler's henchmen. They would break in the most ridiculous ways. Next worst thing to a Lada, worst car ever mass produced, the only thing worse than Nazi engineering was Commie engineering.

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On ‎6‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 12:54 PM, Morgan Wright said:

 

But if I can't get #6 out from the bottom I should just pull the jugs off it and do it old school.

 

I must respectfully disagree with you. The way to get 1 and 6 out from the bottom is no magic trick, dummy. You move the crank journal for those pistons over to the side *opposite* the cam shaft. In fact, the exact position of the crank needed to get 2 and 5 out, gets 1 and 6 out. Intuitively I thought to move the bearing journal over to the cam side, so the camshaft didn't block it. But for some reason the camshaft doesn't block the 1 and 6 piston. But to get 6 out you need to remove the oil pump and copper pipe. 

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So my my concern about using the Teflon plugs at the end of the wrist pins is for lubrication.  If the pistons have grooves to feed oil to the wrist pins and there is a hole inside the wrist pins to feed that oil to the connecting rod bushing, won’t the Teflon plugs prevent oiling the connecting rod bushings properly?

 

 

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Maybe they funnel oil from the wrist pin to the rings. Wrist pins get plenty of oil from below, from oil mist and splash in the crank case. But rings have no source of oil other what what gets past the oil rings.

 

You can file grooves in the teflon plugs and it's win win.

 

.

Edited by Morgan Wright (see edit history)
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Mark,

I think that I'm gonna have to go along with Mr. Wright and what he says about the wrist pins getting oil from below.  The teflon plugs could be machined to just barely cover the outside diameter of the wrist pin and oil could still get into the pins that way.  There are several ways to skin that proverbial cat.  After seeing photos of your pistons with no internal snap rings to hold the pins, the teflon plugs are absolutely the way to go in your situation.  Now is the time to do this while the engine is down and before it goes back together.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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I think you guys are overthinking this pin plug thing.

The plugs are not tight enough against the bores or pins to restrict oil flow.

The pin bushings are in the rod and are lubed by a hole in the rod small end (on my engine) and from the inside of the piston, not the bores.

A good portion of the idea of the rings is to prevent oil from getting to the combustion chamber. Even extremely small amounts of oil passing will result in smoking and oil consumption.

Typically, the ring above the oil control ring is a scraper to "squeegee" oil back to the crankcase and out of the combustion chamber.

 

The 50 or so years my engine has had the pin plugs tells me they are not an issue.

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So what folks are saying is that the the hole in the wrist pin under the connecting rod bearing/bushing is for oil to migrate out to the cylinder walls from below?

 

Im having a problem believing that. I believe the oil is collected between the top and bottom rings and the grooves on the outside of the piston leading to the wrist pin are to give that oil a path off the cylinder walls and aid in lubricating the connecting rod bearing

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Tonight I checked end gap on my new pistons before installing them. I installed the new rings on #1 piston just to see how they looked.  End gaps on the oil control rings were all .015. End gaps on all the other rings were between .030 and .025 .  I used a tool from Summit to ensure the oil control rings were square in the cylinder before measuring and used the piston to ensure the others were square in the cylinders before measuring them further inside the cylinder.

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Edited by Mark Kikta (see edit history)
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Don,

 

Dave at Otto Machine said I should use them to keep the plugs from fouling so much.  I hope they work well.

 

Not to belabor the discussion on oil control and the wrist pin, Dave also said the same thing you said Don,  about the #3 ring (the one above the oil control ring) in that it did most of the scraping of oil off the cylinder walls and he was the one who showed me that the oil control groove under that ring and down to the wrist pin funneled that oil it took off the cylinder walls into that groove and back to the wrist pin where the hole in the wrist pin allowed the oil to lubricate the connecting rod bearing as it went back into the engine crankcase.

 

 

Edited by Mark Kikta (see edit history)
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OK, I understand about that grove under the ring. That gives the scraped oil somewhere to go. However, I doubt that it is the major source of wrist pin lube since there is so much oil splashing  around under the piston.

Nonetheless I like the fact that you are able to use the original pistons and ring type (except the oil control).

Since the engine never did have a real oil control ring, things have got to be better now.

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Tonight I felt like I have turned the corner for sure.  I got the freeze plugs installed.  I used a thin coat of Permatex Aviation form-a-gasket around the edge of the hole and then installed the plugs using my freeze plug installer.  I’m very happy with the results. 

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Mark,

I have never seen a tool like that before to press in freeze plugs.  It just goes to show that a person is never too old to learn something new.  I just machined a piece of brass to fit the cup somewhat snug and tapped them in with a brass hammer.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

Edited by Terry Wiegand
GRAMMAR (see edit history)
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