Mark Kikta

1922 engine progress

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The smell of hot Evans coolant...dripping out from the overflow...in the smallest amount is most annoying...back to green.

 

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I finally received all of the new brass fittings I needed to replace the fuel lines and fittings going from the vacuum tank to the carburetor in order to stop the carb fuel leak(s).

 

First I repacked the fuel control valve on the bottom of my Marvel Carb with 3/32 graphite packing material and removed the packing material that came with the rebuild kit.

 

I also read numerous online articles about both the red and brass carburetor gaskets leaking fuel and that some race car drivers have switched to making carb gaskets out of Delrin. So I ordered Delrin rods from McMaster Carr to make the two sizes of gaskets I needed and to see how that worked out.  I made them on my small lathe and they fit just great.

 

I also replaced the brass fuel shutoff valve under the vacuum tank which was dripping. I used a brass shutoff from Restoration Supply which is a ball type so it's easier to turn and works perfectly and looks great too.  After putting it all back together and putting some fuel in the vacuum tank, I had NO LEAKS after 24 hours !

 So now I need to get to work putting some sort of fuel filter in the gas line from the fuel tank to the Carb!

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Mark, 

    That all looks great and I am glad to hear that you have no leaks.  I would suggest installing an AC glass bowl filter in that new line between the vacuum tank and the carburetor.  Those tubing fittings you are using makes it easy.  The vacuum tank can handle a little more crud than the carburetor can.  You are also using the high point drain on the can, so you can use the vacuum tank as your separator/settler for the big stuff and drain big stuff out the center drain on the can.  That was the way Buick set it up when they added the filter.      Hugh    

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Hugh thanks,

 

I was thinking of using one of the glass bowls just like I have on my 39 Chevy.  I have a couple repo AC ones with the modern paper filters in them which would work well.  I assume one would just install it just 4-6 inches from the vacuum tank banjo fitting.  I think I saw where Morgan did that too. I would get some support from the vacuum tank fitting and not flop around too much when driving.

AC filter.jpg

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Carter fuels filters are more period correct and you can still get filter stones and rubber gaskets cheap at walmart. 

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I have had Delrin seals in my '18 fo years and they have workd well. Plus you dont have to tighten the nuts as much as with copper.

 

On the metering adjustment. I think you are sealing on threaded portion and that is very dificult with any type o molded seal. Graphite paccking has worked well for me.

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Mark,

Is that Teflon tape on the bottom carburetor inlet fitting?  I like your setup for the shut off valve.  Here is a photo of the fitting that I am going to use on my vacuum tank.

 

Terry

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Terry,

Yes I used one layer of teflon tape on all 1/8" screw in fittings.  I have the same shutoff valve you show here but it would not completely stop the fuel for flowing for me.  I just gave in and purchased an aftermarket replacement from Restoration Specialties.

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This weekend I managed to build-up the filter I decided to use with brass fittings and then installed it right where the fuel line comes up from under the car.  I built a small support bracket to give it some vibration support also.  I finally got fuel into the Stewart Vacuum tank using another vacuum source and discovered that I have a pin hole in the fuel line between the filter and the Vacuum Tank.  I have ordered new fittings to spice in a new section of 5/16 brass line from the filter to the Banjo fitting on the vacuum tank.  I notice that I had to tape my banjo fitting using electrical tape tape to seal the vacuum leak around it so the fuel would get sucked in.  Then I could hear the vacuum tank suction cutting off and on.   I feel like I had the nut and two crush gaskets as tight as I would like to make them on the top of the vacuum tank, but the banjo fitting did not seal.  I believe the large screw/nut that holds the banjo fitting onto the vacuum tank may be stretched which is causing it not to seal.   I think I will try to make some Delrin washers a bit thicker and see how they seal up.

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Mark,

I think that crush washers were used on the vacuum tank inlet fittings.  They were on the tank on the '16.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Terry,

 

Yes there should be two crush washers surrounding the banjo fitting.  I had brand new ones on there but it still leaked like cheesecloth. I'm going to try some Delrin.

 

Mark

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Terry & Mark,

    Just a couple words to the wise on fuel fittings... 

  • Use only flare fittings on fuel lines.  Compression fittings will eventually leak and/or break due to vibration.
  • Use pipe dope sealant rather than Teflon tape.  Teflon tape shreds in the threads and will likely clog carb. jets.
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Mark is right. I don't see anything that can dampen or absorb vibration. The engine is going to be vibrating and moving around a lot in the mounts. Movement must be allowed. The work quality looks great but after hours of use thigs can change. Im almost certain that dead copper washers will be required on the banjo fitting to work over time.

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I thought about the vibration and movement thing.  Maybe I'll move the filter up close to the vacuum tank and see how that works?

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18 hours ago, Morgan Wright said:

Heat the washer to cherry red and let it cool slowly to make it soft.

Wrong!  That's how to anneal steel.  

This is how to anneal copper:  

 

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I used the copper crush washers that are not solid copper.  These came with the vacuum tank rebuild kit and you don't need to anneal these.   I made some Delrin gaskets today and I want to try them next.

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Morgan is right and Mark is wrong.

I was taught by an old sleam locomotive pipe fitter that the correct way to anneal copper is to heat it to red and quench it.

 

Heating steel to red will not necessarily anneal it if it isnt cooled correctly - slowly

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Posted (edited)

I am going to have to dissent here. As far as I know, copper does not care if you quench it or not, it still gets soft if you heat it to a dull red. Steel is much more picky.

 

As for Delrin, I wouldn't use it on a fuel system. In another group I participate in, I learned that Tektronix used to make various parts out of it many decades ago when it wasn't a common material. That ended when one of the engineers discovered it burns with a pretty blue flame, emitting noxious gases as it does. A minor underhood fire could open the fuel lines. I think I will stick with copper. For what its worth, if copper is not soft enough, there is always aluminum.

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)
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Well I finally finished with my fuel line.  All fittings are flare fittings now.  I placed a vacuum onto the vacuum line and fuel filled the filter bowl and  the vacuum tank.  Haven’t found any leaks yet.

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So now I noticed that the threads on the accelerator linkage rod to the carburetor are worn and the fitting that connects the rod to carb is warn and slips on the rod.  
 

Does anyone know what size the threads are supposed to be.  Seems like they are 7/32 -32 ?

 

I may just put a nut on either side of the fitting if I can find the nuts.

 

anyone else have this issue?

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Mark yes I will check the thread of mine on Beulah as it has a jamb nut on either side but still loosens up.

 The pin that goes through the throttle bracket is also worn as is the bracket hole. One of those I never got around to it. I will make up a new block and bush the bracket hole. If the thread is the same I should be able to make a block for you as well.

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Are we about ready for a road trip?

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That looks like the brand of fuel filter I had a problem with. The filter element kept jamming against the glass bowl and cutting off the flow. I switched to an antique Carter filter and it works fine now.

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Yes, I was just thinking about that the other day.  I have the fuel line done now and gas will flow.  I need to get a temporary fix on this linkage, get some oil up to the oil pressure gauge to ensure the oil pump is working and put water in the radiator and check for leaks.  

 

Think I'll put a vacuum on the oil line and see if I can suck oil up to the gauge and then just crank it over to see if I notice any oil pressure at all.  So far I have not seen even a flicker in the gauge.

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