Mark Kikta

1922 engine progress

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After attaching my manifolds I started working on the carburetor. I soaked all parts in two cans of carb cleaner for 24 hours first.  Then I began taking it apart.   I took the choke housing off first then the float cover. The float was a mess as expected.  Then I took the float bowl off.  Getting the air valve off was an issue.  It was stuck on quite well and I was worried about bending the brass bottom plate that was an integral part of the air valve and the jets.  More pictures to follow.

Carb stamped no 10-47 Part number 10-511.jpg

Carb view after first dip in carb cleaner.jpg

Carb top view.jpg

cover removed from fuel bowl of carb.  Cork float in view.jpg

Heat control and choke Rt side.jpg

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Then after I took the dash  pot bowl off and cleaned it again, only this time in my ultrasonic cleaner, I noticed it had a crack in it that I could blow air through.  The dash pot bowl collects water I would guess as the lowest point on the carburetor and it must have frozen at some point in its life.. I took the same bowl off of the parts hulk I purchased and it too had a crack in it.  Looks like it may have been a persistent problem on this model carburetor.  I repaired the crack with a torch and some solder and I can't blow air through it now.  Then when I tried to remove the last two screws holding the bottom plate on, I see that the head of both were rusted beyond usefulness.. So I had to cut slots in the remaining parts of the screws and then I could back them out.  They obviously rusted in the dash pot due to high moisture content in the bowl.  After another 24hr soaking of the body in carb cleaner, I was able to remove the air valve housing and bottom plate.

Dash Pot bowl crack found after cleaning.jpg

Dash Pot bowl repaired with solder.jpg

Dash pot screws being removed.jpg

venturi and air valve after first carb cleaner bath. Frozen Air valve.jpg

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My cork float looked like yours. I sealed it with a gasoline proof sealer and it worked great.

 

These are the "before" pics. I don't have after pics. This "Seal-All" is for gasoline applications, you can see the red gas can on the label.

.

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I used my Harbor Freight ultrasonic cleaner to clean everything thoroughly before assembly.   I replaced the air valve spring and all gaskets.  I used the new float instead of dealing with the old nasty cork one.  I did not think it fit into the bowl well with the hole as is was drilled into the new float.  I turned it around and drilled a hole to mount it reverse and it seemed to fit much better.  I have some concern over potential leaks on some fittings that I did not get gaskets for.  I marked which ones I have concerns about on one picture here.  I realize that there were no gaskets in those paces when I took it all apart, but just seems like I should put some brass gaskets or something on the fittings that have nothing.

Venturi and air valve final cleaning in ulttrasonic cleaner.jpg

Carb parts after carb cleaner and ultrasonic cleaner.jpg

all old carb parts and new parts laid out to start assembly.jpg

carb completed.jpg

carb completed with gasket info.jpg

float assembled.jpg

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No gasket on the fitting leading out of the float bowl to the low speed jet, because that threads into the bowl via pipe thread. Pipe threads don't need gaskets, in fact a gasket would prevent the pipe threads from sealing. There is also no gasket at the dash pot, because those also are pipe threads.

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I take it back about the first one. I took mine out to make sure, and there IS a gasket there. It's a very thin metal washer, 0.016 inches thick. And when I looked at the threads on that fitting, that goes into the float bowl, they are bolt threads not pipe threads:

.

 

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I beg to differ on pipe threads.  Teflon tape or thread sealant (or both) on pipe threads will improve the seal and not cause undue stress on the threads.  

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Thanks for checking that Morgan. 

 

So so if I can’t find a thin gasket,  I’ll try Teflon tape.

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8 minutes ago, Mark Kikta said:

Thanks for checking that Morgan. 

 

So so if I can’t find a thin gasket,  I’ll try Teflon tape.

 

No way. Teflon tape is for pipe threads. You need to find a thin washer, I think you can get a fiber washer thin like that. Hardware stores carry thin fiber washers.

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That gasket that you are missing does not need to be .016  It can be a little thicker.  Red fiber washers are used in carburetor fuel service, as well as aluminum.  You could punch or drill that out of aluminum sheet metal too.  Also try McMaster Carr or www.restorationstuff.com carries a large assortment of fiber washers listed by ID.    McMaster sells metal sealing washers.  I prefer aluminum to copper.  Sometimes the copper is pretty hard.

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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Mark, 

    Looking at your photo.  That is one very complete kit, and if you are missing a gasket, you should contact the kit seller with the dimensions of the gaskets that you are missing and they should send them to you.  I also think you are missing another gasket on the fuel inlet base.  I am questioning if you don't need a gasket on the big threaded part as well.  It would depend on the threads used and the purpose of the part.     Hugh

7801920_MarkKikta2.thumb.JPG.d4196b32e54d9902346bada1f811926e.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

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Would like to make a comment here:

 

The kit is one of mine, and the bill-of-materials come straight out of the Marvel Master Parts book.

 

There are 4 gaskets listed:

 

(1) flange (mounting) gasket

(2) bowl cover gasket

(3) insert gasket

(4) strainer gasket

 

After reading this thead, I went back and checked ALL (7) issues of the Marvel books that I have, and found the earliest printing also includes a dashpot gasket (omitted in the later printings). I will include this gasket in future kits. Not certain whether it is necessary or not (since it was omitted in later printings), but it is not a problem to include.

 

As to the other gaskets folks seem to think should be in the kit, they are not listed in any of the Marvel specification sheets. However, not a problem including them, but I need a consensus of what fiber washers should be present.

 

It is a toss-up as to which carburetor brand causes me the most embarrassment: Marvel, Schebler, Ensign, or Kingston.

 

EDIT: guessing that the strainer gasket is one of the ones that was used on the fuel inlet log. Would be very easy to include extras of these. Post here what everyone thinks.

 

Jon

Edited by carbking (see edit history)
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Jon,

 

Your kit was a very nice kit for a carburetor of this vintage.  I am thankful you are still doing this and in fact, I will soon order another kit to have for a spare. 

 

I have attached a photo with my input to your question. I also need to know what I need to send you to get these 3 additional gaskets for this kit.

 

Thank you,

Mark Kikta

Marvel carb kit gaskets.jpg

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Hugh,

 

That is not an indexing wheel on that dash pot I don't believe since there was a gasket in it when I took it apart.

Mark

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Mark - either your zipcode or the invoice number when you ordered the kit is all I need. I can take it from there. I guessed correctly, you put the strainer gasket on the fuel seat. Will send the dashpot gasket and some extra strainer gaskets. These gaskets have been added to the bill-of-material for CS-274.

 

To everyone else: I produce these kits from books that were written before I was born, and occasionally, they are either incorrect, or incomplete (as in this case). If anyone gets a kit from The Carburetor Shop with what appear to be either missing parts, or incorrect parts, please let me know FIRST. Sometimes a part (especially gaskets) is superseded by a part that is somewhat different, but if you think it is wrong, let me know. I may not always agree with you, and I may not have a sample; but I need to have feedback to make any changes. Also, since I make the kits here, I have a bill-of-material for each kit, and will be happy to discuss the contents of the kit BEFORE you place your order.

 

Jon.

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Jon,

 

Thank you very much.  My zip code is 20711, can't find my invoice.  I hope this old Marvel works after all of this! 

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Mark - parts are pulled and ready to mail. Won't guarantee today (look at the Missouri weather map ;) )

 

Quote "I hope this old Marvel works after all of this!" End quote

 

When you are playing with a Marvel carburetor, always remember the mechanic's joke that is older than me (73):

 

"You have a Marvel? It will be a MARVEL if it works!"

 

Jon.

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Jon,

 

Thank you again and good luck with the weather.  You'll likely have a white xmas I guess.

 

Seems like there are lots of folks not believing in the old Marvels.  I give it a good try.

 

R,

Mark

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That was going to be my question too!  I am going to have to have one of those units also.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 11:01 PM, Mark Kikta said:

Today I painted my cylinder block.  I think it came out nice.

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BE8D43D4-04B9-4063-B4A5-87EC388742B7.jpeg

If I may ask, where did you get the paint for your block and do you have a code for the color?

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