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1922 engine progress


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Posted (edited)

Yesterday was the big day!  I got the old girl started and it ran a good while until the fuel ran out if the Vacuum Tank.  So I have an issue with the vacuum tank.  It seems to be sucking fuel buy the car is using it faster than it's delivering for some reason.  So I'm off to fix that next.  The oil pressure gauge still shows no movement so (I Know it's pumping oil) I will put another one in it's place to see what the pressure is really doing.

 

I started it a total of 3 times yesterday.  Seems to run quite smooth.

 

I combined video camera and phone video here:

 

 https://youtu.be/iAbKAg5pg5k 

 

Edited by Mark Kikta (see edit history)
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Congratulations Mark.   It sounds really good.  Nice video too.  Starved fuel sounds like the pick up tube screen in the gas tank may be plugged.      Hugh

 

302493450_fuelfilter.thumb.JPG.b416d7e44b306969a9bd1f5a03861ba1.JPG

 

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Thanks Hugh.

 

My 22 has no screen on the pickup and I had the tank blasted and coated on the inside. The tank is squeaky clean.  

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Mark, 

    Part way thru this thread is the vacuum tank rebuilding procedure if you have not already seen it.  You could use  a little fine valve grinding compound on the little valves.  Do not rotate.  Push like a mortar and pestil.  Just a little bit, apply with a tooth pick, clean off with a qtip.  You can test with a rubber hose.     Hugh

  https://forums.aaca.org/topic/337820-receiving-1926-buick-master-six-soon/?tab=comments#comment-2027288

 

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I used that same brand of fuel filter and had to take it out, it wasn't letting any gas through.

 

I actually bought 2 of them, with 3 spare filter elements. The metal band on ALL of them pinched the inside of the glass bowl and wouldn't let any fuel past. 

 

Take the filter element out and see if it runs for more than 2 minutes that way, put it back and see if it shuts off after 2 minutes. Then you'll know.

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Posted (edited)

That’s what I’m thinking too. Mine has a glass bowl sediment tank fuel filter too mounted up in a different spot. It was a (1940’s?) aftermarket piece which would have had a ceramic ‘stone’ filter element. The prior owner who installed it never used the ‘stone’. I broke the darn glass bowl (they have to be lined up EXACTLY when clamped back down) and an identical replacement (can’t find just the bowl, made in 1000’s of variations)  included the ‘stone’ element. I’ve been told the element will not interfere with fuel flow to the vac-tank, but plan on doing just what Morgan said - do a 2min. test run. If it quits I’m pulling the element out for good.

417B724E-2BD7-41BE-8DED-E8A4F6456AA3.jpeg

Edited by Ben P.
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3 hours ago, Ben P. said:

That’s what I’m thinking too. Mine has a glass bowl sediment tank fuel filter too mounted up in a different spot. It was a (1940’s?) aftermarket piece which would have had a ceramic ‘stone’ filter element. The prior owner who installed it never used the ‘stone’. I broke the darn glass bowl (they have to be lined up EXACTLY when clamped back down) and an identical replacement (can’t find just the bowl, made in 1000’s of variations)  included the ‘stone’ element. I’ve been told the element will not interfere with fuel flow to the vac-tank, but plan on doing just what Morgan said - do a 2min. test run. If it quits I’m pulling the element out for good.

417B724E-2BD7-41BE-8DED-E8A4F6456AA3.jpeg

 

 

I'm using an old Carter now like yours, the stone doesn't interfere with the flow at all and the glass bowl catches the rust particles perfectly. There are dozens on ebay all the time, even some NOS ones, and they have the same size fittings as the one that Mark and I used first. You can get new stones and gaskets anywhere.

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Posted (edited)

I have spent a lot of time recently trying to find a fuel filter that works correctly for gravity drain applications.  Several older mowers and scooters never came with gas filters.  At the same time, most of the fuel filters available are around 14 to 50 microns because most everything has a fuel pump today.  On the Kohler website, they only list one filter capable of passing the gasoline thru without a pump.  It is 75 microns for gravity applications.  Less than this and there is too much pressure drop across the element.     Not suggesting one of these filters for your Buick, but I bet the filter micron you have may be too restrictive.    Porus stones are in the higher micron rating which may be a better application for our low pressure systems.     Hugh

image.thumb.png.2218d56b3c2548a5fb3a3a146215b609.png

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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That fuel filter that I had was made in India. It doesn't let anything through. Blow in the "IN" side or suck through the "OUT" side and you get nothing because the band on the filter element jams against the glass.

 

In India, that would be OK for operating Rickshaws, but gasoline powered cars require a filter that lets gasoline in.

 

Gasoline molecules are much smaller than 14 microns. They are like .000000000000001 microns. But when I blew air in, those molecules are even smaller. Nothing gets through.

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Mark,

Since you know your fuel system is clean, why not eliminate the filter entirely so that possibility is eliminated as an issue.

Heck, it ran most its life without one.

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Posted (edited)

Many fuel sediment bowls had a fine mesh brass screen that set up, inside the housing. Between the screen and gravity settling out water and solids, filtration should be good. Many tractor restoration parts suppliers have the screen and the sediment bowl gasket.

Edited by raydurr (see edit history)
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Took a break at lunch and went outside to explore this lack of oil pressure problem.  I took the gauge out and took it apart.  It seems to work fine.  I can blow an indication of 2-3 PSI myself. I know...I know ,  easy for a blow hard ! 

 

So we started the car up and ran it for 30 seconds and nothing came out of the gauge oil line this time.  I know I blew a half a can of brake clean through that copper line from the gauge fitting last week when I checked out the oil pump.  So I decided to cut the 3/16 oil line about 1 foot above where it comes out of the engine. 

 

I also took the filter out of the fuel bowl to see what would happen when we started the old girl, and held a rag over the cut oil line.  As soon as Kathy started the car, oil starting squirting out all over the place.  So we stopped it of course.  Then I noticed that the fuel bowl had filled up in just that 15-20 seconds or less that the car ran.  So I intend to replace that piece of the oil line and put the original gauge back in the car.  I couldn't blow that removed piece of copper line clear from the engine end.  After putting 120 PSI to that line, Kathy said she saw something blow out and then I was then able to blow through it.  It must have had something that was blocking oil but let me squirt brake clean through it one direction.

 

So as soon as I get the copper line installed I can work on the vacuum tank if that is still an issue.

Fuel Filter removed from bowl.jpg

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4 hours ago, Mark Kikta said:

Then I noticed that the fuel bowl had filled up in just that 15-20 seconds or less that the car ran.

 

 

So as soon as I get the copper line installed I can work on the vacuum tank if that is still an issue.

 

 

If the fuel filter bowl filled in 15-20 seconds, the vacuum tank is working.  No other way it could have got there.

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Tonight I started the old girl and without the filter she kept running until I shut it off after 40 minutes or so.  While idling about 450 rpm according my dwell meter, the dwell was about 34.  I did notice a bit of a change in performance over a regular period of time.  While the engine was idling and the fuel filter bowl was full It ran very smoothly.  All of a sudden when you could see bubbles in the fuel filter bowl there was a drop of 50 or so rpm and idle got a bit less smooth.  As the bubbles stopped in the fuel filter bowl the rpm picked up 50 or so rpm and smoothed out.  This cycle repeated itself every few minutes it seemed. I wonder if it was caused by a vacuum issue in the vacuum tank?

 

On a great note, we had great oil pressure after replacing the oil gauge line and great generator voltage the entire time.

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Your cycling that you noticed in the fuel system is normal. It is the vacuum tank switching between suck mode - which shuts off the vent, and opens the line to the tank, and drain mode, where it blocks the fuel line and opens the vent line, effectively creating a vacuum leak to the manifold,  The only thing you can do is possibly adjust the carb so that it runs a little crappy in both situations. LOL.  No really, this is the way those tanks work.

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When the vacuum tank is on (bubbles) it uses up some of the vacuum so there is less vacuum for the carb and less gas gets in the jets. That's normal.

 

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Mark,

A vacuum tank will 'cycle' when it's working properly.  I guess a person could look at it this way - if it was pulling fuel from the gasoline tank all of the time, there would be a big problem.  The engine would not be using the fuel fast enough to keep things in balance.

 

Terry Wiegand

Doo Dah America

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15 hours ago, Oldtech said:

Your cycling that you noticed in the fuel system is normal. It is the vacuum tank switching between suck mode - which shuts off the vent, and opens the line to the tank, and drain mode, where it blocks the fuel line and opens the vent line, effectively creating a vacuum leak to the manifold,  The only thing you can do is possibly adjust the carb so that it runs a little crappy in both situations. LOL.  No really, this is the way those tanks work.

 

Drain mode blocks the manifold too, so there is no vacuum leak then. The vacuum leak is during suck mode, when the vacuum is used to suck gas.

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Tonight I worked on my clutch.  While Kathy pushed on the clutch for me, I used a long screwdriver and pushed on all the plates of the clutch.  All the plates were easily loosened with the screwdriver.  Then I started the car in first gear and it surged forward then the same in reverse and suddenly it broke free.  Now I can drive it out of the garage and back up into the garage.  The clutch is working as it should. Next I’ll take it for a spin down the driveway😁

 

First time this car has moved on its own power in at least 60 years.  Another first for me and another milestone!!!!

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Mark,

That is great news on the clutch.  Now you can get ready to drive it like you stole it.

 

On 6/17/2020 at 8:52 PM, Mark Kikta said:

Tonight I worked on my clutch.  While Kathy pushed on the clutch for me, I used a long screwdriver and pushed on all the plates of the clutch.  All the plates were easily loosened with the screwdriver.  Then I started the car in first gear and it surged forward then the same in reverse and suddenly it broke free.  Now I can drive it out of the garage and back up into the garage.  The clutch is working as it should. Next I’ll take it for a spin down the driveway😁

 

First time this car has moved on its own power in at least 60 years.  Another first for me and another milestone!!!!

 

 

 

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Well another milestone..... as I drove the old girl for the first time in over 60 years under her own power.  Not very far, but one step leads to another !!

 

 

 

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Mark:

 Saturday I finally got the 1925 Master up and running. With the rebuilt oil pump I am at 15# pressure. Before it was barely at 5#. Progress at our end also.

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Wow great,  seems like you have made a lot of progress over the last couple of weeks too!

 

Terry will have that Swiss watch running soon like no Buick has ever run before😁

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