Jump to content

1922 engine progress


Recommended Posts

Well I finally finished with my fuel line.  All fittings are flare fittings now.  I placed a vacuum onto the vacuum line and fuel filled the filter bowl and  the vacuum tank.  Haven’t found any leaks yet.

16CF9F0A-E226-4013-A748-5FBA5FEF37B9.jpeg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

So now I noticed that the threads on the accelerator linkage rod to the carburetor are worn and the fitting that connects the rod to carb is warn and slips on the rod.  
 

Does anyone know what size the threads are supposed to be.  Seems like they are 7/32 -32 ?

 

I may just put a nut on either side of the fitting if I can find the nuts.

 

anyone else have this issue?

642FE927-1D07-4933-911C-0815D4569DAD.jpeg

67F9DE44-A2DA-4038-9D8D-583BB1D18C66.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark yes I will check the thread of mine on Beulah as it has a jamb nut on either side but still loosens up.

 The pin that goes through the throttle bracket is also worn as is the bracket hole. One of those I never got around to it. I will make up a new block and bush the bracket hole. If the thread is the same I should be able to make a block for you as well.

31455463_DSCF1308(2).thumb.JPG.5d08efb328996ecdecdecf10c679c1e5.JPG
Are we about ready for a road trip?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

That looks like the brand of fuel filter I had a problem with. The filter element kept jamming against the glass bowl and cutting off the flow. I switched to an antique Carter filter and it works fine now.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I was just thinking about that the other day.  I have the fuel line done now and gas will flow.  I need to get a temporary fix on this linkage, get some oil up to the oil pressure gauge to ensure the oil pump is working and put water in the radiator and check for leaks.  

 

Think I'll put a vacuum on the oil line and see if I can suck oil up to the gauge and then just crank it over to see if I notice any oil pressure at all.  So far I have not seen even a flicker in the gauge.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Mark Kikta said:

Yes, I was just thinking about that the other day.  I have the fuel line done now and gas will flow.  I need to get a temporary fix on this linkage, get some oil up to the oil pressure gauge to ensure the oil pump is working and put water in the radiator and check for leaks.  

 

Think I'll put a vacuum on the oil line and see if I can suck oil up to the gauge and then just crank it over to see if I notice any oil pressure at all.  So far I have not seen even a flicker in the gauge.

 

I have found that hand cranking is enough to send oil up to the pressure gage (in my case a spinner)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Mark: 

 The rod is a special thread @ #12-32 Threads per inch. No 12-32 taps available unless special made. #10-32 nuts are common. What was done on my Standard was they took (2) #10-32 nuts made a saw cut and pried it open to fit the rod. On my Master they ran solder over the worn section and the block. Removing the block from the throttle bracket you can turn the block. Turning then works threads into the softer solder.

Edited by dibarlaw
spelling (see edit history)
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

While waiting for the tools to fix my carb linkage I did a compression test and this is what I found:

1-68

2-65

3-60

4-65

5-64

5-67

 

I think I should be good with these results

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Mark Kikta said:

While waiting for the tools to fix my carb linkage I did a compression test and this is what I found:

1-68

2-65

3-60

4-65

5-64

5-67

 

I think I should be good with these results

 

Those are fantastic results.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark:

 Readings sound very good. Maybe I should borrow your gage. My REBUILT 25 engine only shows 55-60#. I know my gage starts leaking around those #s as I can hear the leakage in the fittings. I adapted an old 2 piece 7/8 thread plug to match what was with my gage fittings.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well my 12-32 tap showed up yesterday and I made a couple square nuts to fix my accelerator linkage.  It went together well and everything is a good solid fit.

!cid_9d9b4f49-c27a-46b7-b4de-1c7bb1d11a5d@namprd10_prod_outlook.jpg

!cid_03b5f5d6-6fcb-4026-92c3-9a2e9281e6dc@namprd10_prod_outlook.jpg

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to say no start up was effected yesterday. Dave Blaufarb and I came down to hopefully help in the big event.

 We had some initial puffs and it sure seemed as though it wanted to start. We had 3 cameras to video the event. Somewhat anti-climactic with out a startup.

DSCF8154.thumb.JPG.2f7972b835ed6bb713c4195a591a831c.JPG

Mark doing final prep before start attempt. 

DSCF8156.thumb.JPG.00f718d7abcbfdcb250345b60c4ac91c.JPG

Now in trouble shooting mode to check timing again.

After this point we had believed that the original coil gave up its last.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

After playing with this engine all weekend(Thanks to Larry and David for helping all day on Saturday) , I was able to get a new coil installed and it then get it sort of started.  I got it to run for about 30 seconds with very slow rpm and very little response to throttle. After 30 seconds it stopped running. Also I never got any oil pressure registration.  I have cranked and cranked this motor with the crank and the starter and never got any oil in the oil pressure gauge line.  I took the oil pan off and removed the oil pump and I can't see anything that would keep the pump from pumping.  I can see the pump turn when I crank the engine.  I filled the troughs with oil before starting but I did not not fill the oil pump with vaseline.  My Dyck's manual says this type of pump is self priming so I thought that shouldn't be an issue.

 

Anyone else have any ideas??

 

oil pump1.JPG

oil pump2.JPG

Link to post
Share on other sites

While pan is off double check to make sure there is no issues with the oil distribution piping, as in dumping of pressurized oil. I always hand prime an oil pump with a heavy oil just before installation. Your problem has to be something simple.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark,

Your oil pump is really different from what is in the 1916.  I want to visit with you about the distributor head, cap, and the timing on your engine.  Just got home from a 1,500 + mile road trip to Indianapolis to deliver a 1917 D-45 to Andy Marone.  This kid is tired and going to bed.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark, These are a pretty basic oiling system.  It may just be a stuck oil gauge which is not registering oil pressure. Or the pipe to the oil gauge may be blocked  as Oregon desert said.  As you have the pump out,  you could run it with a drill to check it is pumping oil.  Also when you have reinstalled the pump you could immerse the pump in a container of oil and disconnect the pipe to the front main crankshaft bearing,  turn the engine over with the plugs out and check oil flow to the bearings.  Just a couple of ideas.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I cleaned out the oil gauge line with brake cleaner and compressed air before assembly. Also had the oil distr pipe repaired and cleaned it out also during assembly.  Even disconnected the gauge to see if any oil came out of the line when motoring engine and nothing came out.  I have an early 22 so I have no lines to the main caps.  I think I will use a drill like you say in a bucket of oil to ensure it’s pumping then I’ll pack it with Vaseline when I install it again. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark, 

    I am not sure if you ran the car long enough to get the oil to the gauge.  My suggestion would be to pull the plugs and spin the engine in 1 to 2 minute bursts with 1/2 hour between to let the starter cool.  Perhaps may take 10 bursts.  Consider disconnecting the gauge and use tygon tubing into a container so you can see when the oil starts.  It won't hurt the engine as you have assembly lube in it and you are turning pretty slowly.    

I also poured oil in reverse down the oil line on my car, but knowing that it would eventually all drain out over time, I was not sure if it did any good.  I have been surprised on many cars on how long it takes to see oil pressure, especially on a fresh rebuild.      Hugh

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe easier to wipe all the oil out of the troughs and put the pan on, crank the engine a little, drop the pan again and see if oil got in the troughs. There is no way oil will get in the troughs unless the pump was working.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

You could also crank the engine with the plugs out.

Since the pump appears to be sumerged in the oil pan, it should prime quickly.

The vasceline should help.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I noticed I had oil in the troughs because I filled them before turning the engine over.  I too poured oil down the oil line to the gauge but it just slowly went through.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I found a new but cheap 10-60 psi pressure gauge left over from some industrial use, and hooked it up with short length of tubing to verify oil pressure during the first few start ups. With a new gauge I didn't have to worry about whether it was going to work. I missed checking the gauge on the first start, so had to start again just to check - and it had around 20 psi.

Kevin

oil pressure gauge.jpg

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

It sounds like timing is way late but... it could be carb also. I would recheck the timing.  Nemmine the manuals funny ways, Get it on TDC 1 and 6 with the lever in retard position and see that the points are just opening. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Nemmine. A new word appears in the English language.

 

The video tells me it's not getting enough gas. Nemmine the timing, it's not getting gas.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Tonight I put the oil pump back together and used my drill to test it in the bucket of used oil.  The pump worked just fine.  I also set the crank  at 7 degrees after tdc with the spark advance fully retarded.  The rotor was right under the cap terminal for the number one spark plug.  I marked that spot with a magic marker.  
 

 

BF2A17BF-C282-4CFC-9EA6-C205408FA490.jpeg

EC94824A-FA4D-45E8-A0E5-5CA95CF58C66.jpeg

69B9A01E-D27C-4B1A-B6CF-9E9E86652CB3.jpeg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The best picture here shows true love as Kathy gets under the car with me to put the oil pan back on the car.

 

We also packed the oil pump with Vaseline and filled the troughs with oil before bolting it on.

522B384B-2129-4594-9A7D-B8EDE2D8AB31.jpeg

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark,

I think I might see what your problem is.  You told me that your distributor cap does not have the cylinder numbers molded into it.  A lot of the aftermarket caps were that way.  Your 1922 Model 45 has the identical engine as what is in my 1922 Model 48.  When I sent you the photo of the distributor head on my car the other day, do you remember me telling you that the #1 terminal was right under the outside hold down clip?  The firing order on the cap is 1 - 4  - 2 - 6 - 3 - 5  What you have marked as #1 is actually #3.  You might put the plug wires in this configuration on the cap and see what happens.  Please let us know if this is the problem.  I'm not trying to be a wiseguy here - I just want to see your engine run like it should.  You have done a first class job and have been so careful right up to this point - possibly this could be the answer.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

About that timing... I don't have a manual for this car but..I have a Dikes manual. 7 degrees is what they call for.  Also, you state the rotor is right under the contact. Great but... what are the points doing? the points are the important part. In the picture the points look to be closed and if that is so it hasn't "fired" yet. so may be a lot later.  You are supposed to be able to turn the rotor enough- just in the backlash of the gears -to open and close the points at the 7 deg mark.  If not you need to advance the cam until that point. If it is all correct and there isn't too much slop in the linkages so the distributor housing turns properly, it should idle nice with the lever maybe 1/2 to  2/3 down the quadrant.  It will not idle nice and will sound "heavy" if you do not advance the lever as soon as it starts. 

As to what Terry said, he is correct BUT... If the number one wire is above the rotor at 7 degrees, that is correct, even if the original position was different. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark, 

     Just to keep everyone on the same page.  You can basically choose to make #1 on any of the 6 distributor spots.  I would suggest putting #1 where Terry suggests because if you are lucky you will find a NOS cap at a good price one day, and the cap will be labeled correctly.  Firing order is like Terry said and it is also clockwise.   

 

I can not see your cam, but your points are closed.  Since your flywheel is on 7 degrees, If the rotor is aligned with #1 on the cap, If you just bump the hand crank, the points should start to open (just cracked).   That is when your basic static timing is correct.  Then you check it with a timing light.  Since you can't always hit the mark, err toward the 1-6 line.  You do not want to be more advanced than 7.    

Hugh

400890591_TimingSetting-Ignition1.thumb.JPG.90f66e21f22e89e07d80414a69fd10ff.JPG

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Ok so I went out to study the points again and I previously set it as the book says and nothing has changed.  Yes the points are closed and at that point when I rock the backlash forward ( clockwise) the points open and when I turn back they close. I verified my firing order is 142635.

Edited by Mark Kikta
Add (see edit history)
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I motored the engine with the starter without the plugs and after two attempts I started get some oil out of the oil pressure line for the first time. Good news!!

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

Good on the oil pump and good on the timing.,  so that leaves the carb.  You already have lots of advice on that so i'm not going to add any. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...