Mark Kikta Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 Yes, I was just thinking about that the other day. I have the fuel line done now and gas will flow. I need to get a temporary fix on this linkage, get some oil up to the oil pressure gauge to ensure the oil pump is working and put water in the radiator and check for leaks. Think I'll put a vacuum on the oil line and see if I can suck oil up to the gauge and then just crank it over to see if I notice any oil pressure at all. So far I have not seen even a flicker in the gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, Mark Kikta said: Yes, I was just thinking about that the other day. I have the fuel line done now and gas will flow. I need to get a temporary fix on this linkage, get some oil up to the oil pressure gauge to ensure the oil pump is working and put water in the radiator and check for leaks. Think I'll put a vacuum on the oil line and see if I can suck oil up to the gauge and then just crank it over to see if I notice any oil pressure at all. So far I have not seen even a flicker in the gauge. I have found that hand cranking is enough to send oil up to the pressure gage (in my case a spinner) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) Mark: The rod is a special thread @ #12-32 Threads per inch. No 12-32 taps available unless special made. #10-32 nuts are common. What was done on my Standard was they took (2) #10-32 nuts made a saw cut and pried it open to fit the rod. On my Master they ran solder over the worn section and the block. Removing the block from the throttle bracket you can turn the block. Turning then works threads into the softer solder. Edited May 21, 2020 by dibarlaw spelling (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 Thank you very much Larry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 I just ordered a12-32 tap on eBay so maybe I can make a couple of square nuts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Get a 12-32 die and maybe you can make a new rod or repair the old one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted May 26, 2020 Author Share Posted May 26, 2020 While waiting for the tools to fix my carb linkage I did a compression test and this is what I found: 1-68 2-65 3-60 4-65 5-64 5-67 I think I should be good with these results 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 7 hours ago, Mark Kikta said: While waiting for the tools to fix my carb linkage I did a compression test and this is what I found: 1-68 2-65 3-60 4-65 5-64 5-67 I think I should be good with these results Those are fantastic results. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Mark: Readings sound very good. Maybe I should borrow your gage. My REBUILT 25 engine only shows 55-60#. I know my gage starts leaking around those #s as I can hear the leakage in the fittings. I adapted an old 2 piece 7/8 thread plug to match what was with my gage fittings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted May 26, 2020 Author Share Posted May 26, 2020 You can borrow mine if you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted May 27, 2020 Author Share Posted May 27, 2020 Well my 12-32 tap showed up yesterday and I made a couple square nuts to fix my accelerator linkage. It went together well and everything is a good solid fit. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Sorry to say no start up was effected yesterday. Dave Blaufarb and I came down to hopefully help in the big event. We had some initial puffs and it sure seemed as though it wanted to start. We had 3 cameras to video the event. Somewhat anti-climactic with out a startup. Mark doing final prep before start attempt. Now in trouble shooting mode to check timing again. After this point we had believed that the original coil gave up its last. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 After playing with this engine all weekend(Thanks to Larry and David for helping all day on Saturday) , I was able to get a new coil installed and it then get it sort of started. I got it to run for about 30 seconds with very slow rpm and very little response to throttle. After 30 seconds it stopped running. Also I never got any oil pressure registration. I have cranked and cranked this motor with the crank and the starter and never got any oil in the oil pressure gauge line. I took the oil pan off and removed the oil pump and I can't see anything that would keep the pump from pumping. I can see the pump turn when I crank the engine. I filled the troughs with oil before starting but I did not not fill the oil pump with vaseline. My Dyck's manual says this type of pump is self priming so I thought that shouldn't be an issue. Anyone else have any ideas?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 Here's a short clip of how the engine ran for 30 secs or so https://youtu.be/nTE5NrLwhSM 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raydurr Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 While pan is off double check to make sure there is no issues with the oil distribution piping, as in dumping of pressurized oil. I always hand prime an oil pump with a heavy oil just before installation. Your problem has to be something simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Mark, Your oil pump is really different from what is in the 1916. I want to visit with you about the distributor head, cap, and the timing on your engine. Just got home from a 1,500 + mile road trip to Indianapolis to deliver a 1917 D-45 to Andy Marone. This kid is tired and going to bed. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Desert model 45 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 The tube supplying oil to head and pressure gauge was plugged up in my 1924 motor. It took around 40 psi air pressure to blow out a wad of gooey semi hardened oil sludge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Wise Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Mark, These are a pretty basic oiling system. It may just be a stuck oil gauge which is not registering oil pressure. Or the pipe to the oil gauge may be blocked as Oregon desert said. As you have the pump out, you could run it with a drill to check it is pumping oil. Also when you have reinstalled the pump you could immerse the pump in a container of oil and disconnect the pipe to the front main crankshaft bearing, turn the engine over with the plugs out and check oil flow to the bearings. Just a couple of ideas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 I cleaned out the oil gauge line with brake cleaner and compressed air before assembly. Also had the oil distr pipe repaired and cleaned it out also during assembly. Even disconnected the gauge to see if any oil came out of the line when motoring engine and nothing came out. I have an early 22 so I have no lines to the main caps. I think I will use a drill like you say in a bucket of oil to ensure it’s pumping then I’ll pack it with Vaseline when I install it again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Mark, I am not sure if you ran the car long enough to get the oil to the gauge. My suggestion would be to pull the plugs and spin the engine in 1 to 2 minute bursts with 1/2 hour between to let the starter cool. Perhaps may take 10 bursts. Consider disconnecting the gauge and use tygon tubing into a container so you can see when the oil starts. It won't hurt the engine as you have assembly lube in it and you are turning pretty slowly. I also poured oil in reverse down the oil line on my car, but knowing that it would eventually all drain out over time, I was not sure if it did any good. I have been surprised on many cars on how long it takes to see oil pressure, especially on a fresh rebuild. Hugh 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Maybe easier to wipe all the oil out of the troughs and put the pan on, crank the engine a little, drop the pan again and see if oil got in the troughs. There is no way oil will get in the troughs unless the pump was working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 You could also crank the engine with the plugs out. Since the pump appears to be sumerged in the oil pan, it should prime quickly. The vasceline should help. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted June 3, 2020 Author Share Posted June 3, 2020 I noticed I had oil in the troughs because I filled them before turning the engine over. I too poured oil down the oil line to the gauge but it just slowly went through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Desert model 45 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 I found a new but cheap 10-60 psi pressure gauge left over from some industrial use, and hooked it up with short length of tubing to verify oil pressure during the first few start ups. With a new gauge I didn't have to worry about whether it was going to work. I missed checking the gauge on the first start, so had to start again just to check - and it had around 20 psi. Kevin 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 It sounds like timing is way late but... it could be carb also. I would recheck the timing. Nemmine the manuals funny ways, Get it on TDC 1 and 6 with the lever in retard position and see that the points are just opening. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Nemmine. A new word appears in the English language. The video tells me it's not getting enough gas. Nemmine the timing, it's not getting gas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 I plan to recheck the timing again before I try to start it for sure. I also plan to check the float adjustment again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 Tonight I put the oil pump back together and used my drill to test it in the bucket of used oil. The pump worked just fine. I also set the crank at 7 degrees after tdc with the spark advance fully retarded. The rotor was right under the cap terminal for the number one spark plug. I marked that spot with a magic marker. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 The best picture here shows true love as Kathy gets under the car with me to put the oil pan back on the car. We also packed the oil pump with Vaseline and filled the troughs with oil before bolting it on. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Mark, I think I might see what your problem is. You told me that your distributor cap does not have the cylinder numbers molded into it. A lot of the aftermarket caps were that way. Your 1922 Model 45 has the identical engine as what is in my 1922 Model 48. When I sent you the photo of the distributor head on my car the other day, do you remember me telling you that the #1 terminal was right under the outside hold down clip? The firing order on the cap is 1 - 4 - 2 - 6 - 3 - 5 What you have marked as #1 is actually #3. You might put the plug wires in this configuration on the cap and see what happens. Please let us know if this is the problem. I'm not trying to be a wiseguy here - I just want to see your engine run like it should. You have done a first class job and have been so careful right up to this point - possibly this could be the answer. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Mark, I just gotta ask - does that young lady on the floor under your car hire out?😁 Terry Wiegand Doo Dah America 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 About that timing... I don't have a manual for this car but..I have a Dikes manual. 7 degrees is what they call for. Also, you state the rotor is right under the contact. Great but... what are the points doing? the points are the important part. In the picture the points look to be closed and if that is so it hasn't "fired" yet. so may be a lot later. You are supposed to be able to turn the rotor enough- just in the backlash of the gears -to open and close the points at the 7 deg mark. If not you need to advance the cam until that point. If it is all correct and there isn't too much slop in the linkages so the distributor housing turns properly, it should idle nice with the lever maybe 1/2 to 2/3 down the quadrant. It will not idle nice and will sound "heavy" if you do not advance the lever as soon as it starts. As to what Terry said, he is correct BUT... If the number one wire is above the rotor at 7 degrees, that is correct, even if the original position was different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Mark, Just to keep everyone on the same page. You can basically choose to make #1 on any of the 6 distributor spots. I would suggest putting #1 where Terry suggests because if you are lucky you will find a NOS cap at a good price one day, and the cap will be labeled correctly. Firing order is like Terry said and it is also clockwise. I can not see your cam, but your points are closed. Since your flywheel is on 7 degrees, If the rotor is aligned with #1 on the cap, If you just bump the hand crank, the points should start to open (just cracked). That is when your basic static timing is correct. Then you check it with a timing light. Since you can't always hit the mark, err toward the 1-6 line. You do not want to be more advanced than 7. Hugh 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) Ok so I went out to study the points again and I previously set it as the book says and nothing has changed. Yes the points are closed and at that point when I rock the backlash forward ( clockwise) the points open and when I turn back they close. I verified my firing order is 142635. Edited June 6, 2020 by Mark Kikta Add (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 I motored the engine with the starter without the plugs and after two attempts I started get some oil out of the oil pressure line for the first time. Good news!! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Good on the oil pump and good on the timing., so that leaves the carb. You already have lots of advice on that so i'm not going to add any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted June 7, 2020 Author Share Posted June 7, 2020 I hope to take a look at it later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) Yesterday was the big day! I got the old girl started and it ran a good while until the fuel ran out if the Vacuum Tank. So I have an issue with the vacuum tank. It seems to be sucking fuel buy the car is using it faster than it's delivering for some reason. So I'm off to fix that next. The oil pressure gauge still shows no movement so (I Know it's pumping oil) I will put another one in it's place to see what the pressure is really doing. I started it a total of 3 times yesterday. Seems to run quite smooth. I combined video camera and phone video here: https://youtu.be/iAbKAg5pg5k Edited June 18, 2020 by Mark Kikta (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Congratulations Mark. It sounds really good. Nice video too. Starved fuel sounds like the pick up tube screen in the gas tank may be plugged. Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 Thanks Hugh. My 22 has no screen on the pickup and I had the tank blasted and coated on the inside. The tank is squeaky clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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