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1922 engine progress


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After attaching my manifolds I started working on the carburetor. I soaked all parts in two cans of carb cleaner for 24 hours first.  Then I began taking it apart.   I took the choke housing off first then the float cover. The float was a mess as expected.  Then I took the float bowl off.  Getting the air valve off was an issue.  It was stuck on quite well and I was worried about bending the brass bottom plate that was an integral part of the air valve and the jets.  More pictures to follow.

Carb stamped no 10-47 Part number 10-511.jpg

Carb view after first dip in carb cleaner.jpg

Carb top view.jpg

cover removed from fuel bowl of carb.  Cork float in view.jpg

Heat control and choke Rt side.jpg

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Then after I took the dash  pot bowl off and cleaned it again, only this time in my ultrasonic cleaner, I noticed it had a crack in it that I could blow air through.  The dash pot bowl collects water I would guess as the lowest point on the carburetor and it must have frozen at some point in its life.. I took the same bowl off of the parts hulk I purchased and it too had a crack in it.  Looks like it may have been a persistent problem on this model carburetor.  I repaired the crack with a torch and some solder and I can't blow air through it now.  Then when I tried to remove the last two screws holding the bottom plate on, I see that the head of both were rusted beyond usefulness.. So I had to cut slots in the remaining parts of the screws and then I could back them out.  They obviously rusted in the dash pot due to high moisture content in the bowl.  After another 24hr soaking of the body in carb cleaner, I was able to remove the air valve housing and bottom plate.

Dash Pot bowl crack found after cleaning.jpg

Dash Pot bowl repaired with solder.jpg

Dash pot screws being removed.jpg

venturi and air valve after first carb cleaner bath. Frozen Air valve.jpg

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My cork float looked like yours. I sealed it with a gasoline proof sealer and it worked great.

 

These are the "before" pics. I don't have after pics. This "Seal-All" is for gasoline applications, you can see the red gas can on the label.

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I used my Harbor Freight ultrasonic cleaner to clean everything thoroughly before assembly.   I replaced the air valve spring and all gaskets.  I used the new float instead of dealing with the old nasty cork one.  I did not think it fit into the bowl well with the hole as is was drilled into the new float.  I turned it around and drilled a hole to mount it reverse and it seemed to fit much better.  I have some concern over potential leaks on some fittings that I did not get gaskets for.  I marked which ones I have concerns about on one picture here.  I realize that there were no gaskets in those paces when I took it all apart, but just seems like I should put some brass gaskets or something on the fittings that have nothing.

Venturi and air valve final cleaning in ulttrasonic cleaner.jpg

Carb parts after carb cleaner and ultrasonic cleaner.jpg

all old carb parts and new parts laid out to start assembly.jpg

carb completed.jpg

carb completed with gasket info.jpg

float assembled.jpg

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No gasket on the fitting leading out of the float bowl to the low speed jet, because that threads into the bowl via pipe thread. Pipe threads don't need gaskets, in fact a gasket would prevent the pipe threads from sealing. There is also no gasket at the dash pot, because those also are pipe threads.

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I take it back about the first one. I took mine out to make sure, and there IS a gasket there. It's a very thin metal washer, 0.016 inches thick. And when I looked at the threads on that fitting, that goes into the float bowl, they are bolt threads not pipe threads:

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8 minutes ago, Mark Kikta said:

Thanks for checking that Morgan. 

 

So so if I can’t find a thin gasket,  I’ll try Teflon tape.

 

No way. Teflon tape is for pipe threads. You need to find a thin washer, I think you can get a fiber washer thin like that. Hardware stores carry thin fiber washers.

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That gasket that you are missing does not need to be .016  It can be a little thicker.  Red fiber washers are used in carburetor fuel service, as well as aluminum.  You could punch or drill that out of aluminum sheet metal too.  Also try McMaster Carr or www.restorationstuff.com carries a large assortment of fiber washers listed by ID.    McMaster sells metal sealing washers.  I prefer aluminum to copper.  Sometimes the copper is pretty hard.

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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Mark, 

    Looking at your photo.  That is one very complete kit, and if you are missing a gasket, you should contact the kit seller with the dimensions of the gaskets that you are missing and they should send them to you.  I also think you are missing another gasket on the fuel inlet base.  I am questioning if you don't need a gasket on the big threaded part as well.  It would depend on the threads used and the purpose of the part.     Hugh

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Would like to make a comment here:

 

The kit is one of mine, and the bill-of-materials come straight out of the Marvel Master Parts book.

 

There are 4 gaskets listed:

 

(1) flange (mounting) gasket

(2) bowl cover gasket

(3) insert gasket

(4) strainer gasket

 

After reading this thead, I went back and checked ALL (7) issues of the Marvel books that I have, and found the earliest printing also includes a dashpot gasket (omitted in the later printings). I will include this gasket in future kits. Not certain whether it is necessary or not (since it was omitted in later printings), but it is not a problem to include.

 

As to the other gaskets folks seem to think should be in the kit, they are not listed in any of the Marvel specification sheets. However, not a problem including them, but I need a consensus of what fiber washers should be present.

 

It is a toss-up as to which carburetor brand causes me the most embarrassment: Marvel, Schebler, Ensign, or Kingston.

 

EDIT: guessing that the strainer gasket is one of the ones that was used on the fuel inlet log. Would be very easy to include extras of these. Post here what everyone thinks.

 

Jon

Edited by carbking (see edit history)
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Jon,

 

Your kit was a very nice kit for a carburetor of this vintage.  I am thankful you are still doing this and in fact, I will soon order another kit to have for a spare. 

 

I have attached a photo with my input to your question. I also need to know what I need to send you to get these 3 additional gaskets for this kit.

 

Thank you,

Mark Kikta

Marvel carb kit gaskets.jpg

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Mark - either your zipcode or the invoice number when you ordered the kit is all I need. I can take it from there. I guessed correctly, you put the strainer gasket on the fuel seat. Will send the dashpot gasket and some extra strainer gaskets. These gaskets have been added to the bill-of-material for CS-274.

 

To everyone else: I produce these kits from books that were written before I was born, and occasionally, they are either incorrect, or incomplete (as in this case). If anyone gets a kit from The Carburetor Shop with what appear to be either missing parts, or incorrect parts, please let me know FIRST. Sometimes a part (especially gaskets) is superseded by a part that is somewhat different, but if you think it is wrong, let me know. I may not always agree with you, and I may not have a sample; but I need to have feedback to make any changes. Also, since I make the kits here, I have a bill-of-material for each kit, and will be happy to discuss the contents of the kit BEFORE you place your order.

 

Jon.

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Mark - parts are pulled and ready to mail. Won't guarantee today (look at the Missouri weather map ;) )

 

Quote "I hope this old Marvel works after all of this!" End quote

 

When you are playing with a Marvel carburetor, always remember the mechanic's joke that is older than me (73):

 

"You have a Marvel? It will be a MARVEL if it works!"

 

Jon.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Today I replaced the padding material needed on the top brackets and bottom straps for mounting my newly reworked gas tank. I attached the material to the top bracket with a split rivet as it was originally attached.  After putting the top brackets and insulating material in place, I jacked the tank up into position and installed the lower straps and insulating material.   I tightened the lower straps and the tank is in place.

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The ground strap in my E-49 was a lead plate attached to the battery box which attached to the frame. I was not happy about that, because my battery box is all rusty (like in your before pic) . So, I sent a 2 gauge wire over to the transmission for ground. I don't see a ground strap on your box so they must have changed it by '22.

 

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Yes my 1922 is different.  My ground cable is attached to the frame next to the battery box.  I intend to make my ground cable a split cable that attaches to both the frame and the transmission case.

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Decided to pull the old girl outside today to give her some fresh air and check my exhaust system condition by blowing air through it using my backpack yard blower.  Seemed to be open fine and only some small rust particles came out.

 

Now I can get on to attaching the exhaust manifold heat control valve and my carburetor too.

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This past weekend I finished adjusting my carburetor float and installed it on the car.  Then I installed the heat control valve between the exhaust manifold and exhaust pipe along with the two heat pipes going to the carburetor.  I had those pipes welded shut at the ends inside the heat control valve so I should not have any heat issues related to them anyway.

Carb installed.jpg

Heat control valve installed.jpg

Carb and heat control valve installed.jpg

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Decided to order my new plug wires this week.  They came today.  
 

I ordered a set of plug wires from RJ&L wiring in NY.  They were out of the black wire so I ordered the set in brown.  The terminals on the spark plug connectors are great looking.  Can’t wait to get them fitted soon.

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Mark,

Are those the plug terminals that I sent to you?  Could you show the bottom side of one of them?  I would like to see how they fasten on to the top of the plug.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Mark:

 The fellow at RJ&L told me that he sold me his last black 9mm set when I spoke to him at Hershey. He said he was going to have more made up. I have still experienced some leakage on these new wires. Most visible was the coil wire at the end of the block (head on our cars) where on our 1925s is to have a clip to hold it and the primary wire from the distributor. I may have to make a micarta separator plate like Hugh did for the same reason. Just saying that I did not have any leakage problems with the Oak with black tracer type you now have. But at the time this is what came with my car when I bought it. Also they were shorter and not clustered and bunched through a cover as the car did not have one at the time

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  March 2011                                                                                      July 2019 I probably should have shortened the lengths to fit better as they appear to be one size fits all 6 cylinder Buicks. My Master has a later Delco Distributor adapted and that cap take 7mm wires. Probably from a John Deere tractor. They are John Deere Green!

                                                                                                                               

Edited by dibarlaw
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Dad and I visited his shop several years ago, we didn't buy a pre made set, instead bought the pieces parts from him and made our own, if I'm not mistaken our center wire for our 23 was a different thickness as Larry states, have had no issue with them. Real nice fellow and very helpful. Terry - the end caps snap on top of the plugs and fit snug. Larry - just a question - do you have a small piece of metal that holds the wires under the cover that secures them? Hope everyone is doing well!

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Terry,

 

I saw the Hugh had purchased a set from them on an earlier post and he said that he liked them a lot.  Then there was a lot of talk about leakage too recently so I decided to try a set of pre-mades for my first set.  So these are not the ones you sent me.     If I have any issues with these I’ll try the original ends on some new Packard 7mm wire that I also bought as another solution.

 

Here are a couple of photos of the pre-made ends that came with the set.  I guess I will need to order a coil wire since that did not come with the set.

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I still like the RJ&L wire sets.  I love the look of them.  I did install a new set - and my old set only had 400 miles on it.  Black 9mm.  I am keeping it as a spare as I think it is still a good set.   I got his last set from the black 9mm wire that he had in stock (after Hershey), so new sets would be using a new lot number of wire I would suspect.  

 

I wonder what they do to test the quality of the wire insulation.  I love the spark plug end connection, but the other end is a common poor quality connector.  To do it right, I would solder the brass ends to the cap end of the wire.  You can see the arcing that I had.  Maybe at least just solder the coil wire end as  it see a lot more firing.  This was the coil wire connector at the cap end and you can see where it was arcing at the point that pushes into the insulation.  It removed the brass pointer.     A good fix is to cut the insulation back about 1/4" and push the wire thru the triangular hole, then solder it onto the face of the connector.  

 

Also reposting a link of what I installed to keep any oil away from the wires that are behind the spark plug cover. 

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/337137-mid-20s-buick-keeping-plug-wires-clean/?tab=comments#comment-1965345  

 

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Jim :

 Are you referring to the #165502 (may be same part # on your car) High tension wire clamp?

339656366_1112097495_sparkplugwireshield3.thumb.JPG.8fdeaa2583fcf736b0d52c34c4495e901.jpg.3d6b824ce5d1682127f0827091524b4a.jpg   These are the same on both my Standard and Master. Even the later Straight 8s have these clamps under the spark plug cover. Different design. Still with the 9mm wires it was like trying to fit a 2 pound bologna in a 1pound bag. I did add 1/8 tall micarta washers under the 1/4"X20 screws so the wires could be moved a bit. I am still going to try Hugh's method of Isolation.

 On the 2 sets of wires I made up for the car (one NOS 7mm wire and the new RJ&L set)I used the same technique as Hugh by soldering the clips to go in distributor cap.

 I love the spark plug end clips as they are very positive. Unfortunately one broke while installing. But I did have one from the set that came with the car in 2011.

 

 

Edited by dibarlaw (see edit history)
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