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57 Dynaflow Issue


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Just bought the car...symptoms are as follows...

 

When I first started the car, there was no noise, but the car was sold to me as "transmission is out."  He said it felt like it was stuck between gears.  I was hoping it would be a linkage issue or something.

 

So I started it, ran great.  Upon putting it in any gear, it sounded like it was grinding a gear and not engaging fully.  Car never moved, but the speedometer was spinning.  I put it back into park, but the noise did not go away, nor did it re-engage back into park. 

 

I pulled the linkage off the trans to make sure it was fully in Park, then reconnected and there was no adjustment made to reconnect...so I know the linkage is not boogered up.  I also removed the inspection cover to make sure convertor teeth or bolts weren't loose or beating on the bellhousing or something.

 

Aside from removing the transmission and taking it to me trans guy, is there something else I should look for before blowing this thing apart?

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43 minutes ago, SpecialEducation said:

Sounds like the splines in your torque ball are blown out.  The torque ball can be replaced without removing the transmission or rear axle.  Not easy or fun, but possible.

Or the U-joint in the torque ball.  If the speedometer works then rotation is at least as far as the speedo gear.  If you put back into park with it running there is nothing to stop rotation and it will grind the same as putting in Park with the car moving.

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1 hour ago, old-tank said:

If the speedometer works then rotation is at least as far as the speedo gear.

 

Yep, speedo (not Mr. Earl) working is a good sign (kinda).  I doubt you need a new transmission. 

 

Either way, it sounds like an issue at the torque ball, so that’s where I’d open up first. Hopefully it’s in the ball and not the tailshaft or drive shaft. 

 

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20 hours ago, SpecialEducation said:

The torque ball can be replaced without removing the transmission or rear axle.  Not easy or fun, but possible.

The only way I know this to be feasible is using a come-along to pull the rear axle back, which would make me nervous.  Do you have another method?

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Before the bitter cold sets in today, I jacked up the rear end off the ground and had my wife spin the tires by hand.  It definitely sounds like it's coming from the rear u-joint section, or even the pumpkin.  Not 100% sure yet.  I guess I can keep my fingers crossed that it's not the transmission at this point, until I can figure out what the lovely noise is at the rear u-joint.

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I'll close out this thread by answering the question of "what was it?" 

 

It's the female splined part of the driveshaft that slides over the splines on the rear end.  Teeth are almost gone.  😒

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On 1/18/2019 at 2:18 PM, lancemb said:

The only way I know this to be feasible is using a come-along to pull the rear axle back, which would make me nervous.  Do you have another method?

 

No come along is needed.  The method that works for me is jacking the axle up to be level with the tail of the transmission.  There can be no binding at the torque tube and torque ball flange.   I have removed and re-installed 2 torque tubes with nothing but a floor jack.   Did both without assistance.   The chassis manual is quite clear on the procedure.    

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On 1/19/2019 at 6:07 PM, Smartin said:

I'll close out this thread by answering the question of "what was it?" 

 

It's the female splined part of the driveshaft that slides over the splines on the rear end.  Teeth are almost gone.  😒

 

You have the rear end out? 

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On 1/19/2019 at 5:07 PM, Smartin said:

I'll close out this thread by answering the question of "what was it?" 

 

It's the female splined part of the driveshaft that slides over the splines on the rear end.  Teeth are almost gone.  😒

 

Aw, crap.  That sounds expensive.

Maybe you can get parts from someone converting to an open drive line.  Even if someone is giving away a whole torque tube/rearend assembly for free, shipping is prohibitive.  Hope you can find something within driving distance.

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I would believe that finding a replacement rear axle would be the least amount of work and cost.   Open driveline is a major undertaking compared to finding a replacement axle assembly.  Someone may have a pinion carrier instead of an entire rears assembly.      

Edited by avgwarhawk (see edit history)
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6 hours ago, SpecialEducation said:

 

Aw, crap.  That sounds expensive.

Maybe you can get parts from someone converting to an open drive line.  Even if someone is giving away a whole torque tube/rearend assembly for free, shipping is prohibitive.

 

All he needs is the rearmost section of the driveshaft, no?  I dunno about availability, but shipping could probably be handled with a USPS Flat Rate box.

 

Are there issues with balancing that require the driveshaft to be replaced as an assembly?

Edited by KongaMan (see edit history)
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Doubtful, but I will probably rob the entire driveshaft from the parts car so I don't have to replace the u-joint....assuming the u-joint in the parts car isn't trashed.

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2 minutes ago, Smartin said:

Doubtful, but I will probably rob the entire driveshaft from the parts car so I don't have to replace the u-joint....assuming the u-joint in the parts car isn't trashed.

Remove the tube and check. Or, replace the u-joint. Just did it on my 60. 

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12 minutes ago, KongaMan said:

 

All he needs is the rearmost section of the driveshaft, no? 

 

The manual says the prop shaft is 2 pieces, and they can be separated, but I have no idea how big they are, I've never had the shaft out of the tube.  There is no rear u-joint, that's the point of the torque tube.

Adam:  Is the car you are trying to fix also a Roadmaster?

 

https://www.hometownbuick.com/1957-buick-rear-axle-service-procedures/

 

Edited by SpecialEducation (see edit history)
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11 minutes ago, KongaMan said:

 

All he needs is the rearmost section of the driveshaft, no?  I dunno about availability, but shipping could probably be handled with a USPS Flat Rate box.

 

Are there issues with balancing that require the driveshaft to be replaced as an assembly?

The driveshaft is balance by itself. Should not require any balancing or affect anything. 

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3 minutes ago, Smartin said:

Yes...driveshaft will come out of tube.  If u-joint in in good shape I will run it. 

 

And yes, they are two pieces with a rear joint.

IMG_1386.jpg

 

It appears to be flexing at the joint. That's good. Can't be tight. 

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3 minutes ago, KongaMan said:

FWIW, Rock Auto says they sell new u-joints for this application.  Should be easy enough to replace if you're at all concerned about the condition.  It's certainly a lot easier to do it now. ;) 

Sound advise. 

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I am working on an order now.  I'll go ahead and get one to be safe.  I also did some cleaning on the long portion of the torque tube this evening, finding some cool factory markings and a very distinct lack of black paint.

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Any thoughts on how that tube stripped the threads?

It does not seem high mileage wear for a part like that would be that bad...

 

How are the splines on the differential looking?

 

Inquiring mind wants to know.

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The differential looks pretty good.  I suppose it was a lack of lubrication from the get-go that killed this one.  It looks like there was never an ounce of grease on the splines...ever.

IMG_1388.jpg

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32 minutes ago, dei said:

Any thoughts on how that tube stripped the threads?

It does not seem high mileage wear for a part like that would be that bad...

 

How are the splines on the differential looking?

 

Inquiring mind wants to know.

I believe there is a good chance this was a factory defect and the splines were not properly heat treated (hardened) when new.

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Thanks Adam. I don't think I have heard anyone else have an issue like this before so wondered if it might be something I should have to watch for.

Looks like I should keep that part from my Limited parts car... just in case.

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39 minutes ago, Smartin said:

The differential looks pretty good.  I suppose it was a lack of lubrication from the get-go that killed this one.  It looks like there was never an ounce of grease on the splines...ever.

IMG_1388.jpg

 

I would concur. This is a slip joint. No grease would allow metal to be worn down to nothing. Note the most rearward splines are in good shape as they never were touched by the propeller shaft. 

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I got the car back together this evening.  All gears work really smoothly as I run through the shifter.  I'm short on fluid, but it is working for now.  I'll grab some on the way home tomorrow.

 

Only issue now is I have no PARK.  Is the parking pawl accessible without removing the transmission?

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4 hours ago, Smartin said:

I got the car back together this evening.  All gears work really smoothly as I run through the shifter.  I'm short on fluid, but it is working for now.  I'll grab some on the way home tomorrow.

 

Grab a bunch.  If someone earlier in the ownership chain thought there was a problem with the transmission, no telling what they might have dumped in there to fix it.  I'd drain it and refill just to be safe.

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