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canadiandeluxe

electrical thoughts

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So in my old car im thinking of a 6V to 12V converter with a battery to run some modern extra accessories. I was just sketching out stuff and was wondering would I have to make the ground isolated from the rest of the car since the rest of it is 6V ground? So I would have to have like a grounding terminal block hooked to the battery? Also lets say my converter was outputting 7A and I just had like a lawn and garden battery for a cushion would I have to regulate the amperage from the converter going into the battery then or how would the best way to hook that up be? figured i would put it here since there might be others thinking about this stuff too. 

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Ok my dumb butt forgot about grounded fuse blocks so that problem is fixed. But I still wonder about the charging of a small battery

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As I recall, you have an old 50 Plymouth. I had a 50 Plymouth, too, and it had the 6 volt system, a positive ground, old deteriorating cloth insulation...and very few fuses.

 

The things I just mentioned are limitations, pretty much. The people at Ron Francis wiring have helped me out a lot (google them to get contact info.) I'm rewiring on old 6 volt Ford and their advice has been helpful...but it can be a challenge to connect with customer service. I'd take their advice if your wiring is original to the car.

 

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Please consider NOT converting from 6 to 12 volts.

 

One regular poster here, an active antique-car dealer,

has said that cars converted are harder to sell.

I agree with him:  I want my car original, and would

wonder whether the conversion had been done

properly, whether I'd be having trouble with some

of the instruments not working, and so on.  A conversion

would truly make me not interested in that particular car.

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Here we go again!  From what I read, he is going to use a CONVERTER to switch power to 12V and thinking of using a lawn and garden batter to keep the voltage stable for a few modern accessories.  He is not converting the car to 12V.  I would think the biggest problem would be to keep everything isolated from ground that will be 12V as your car has positive ground.

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What accessories are you attempting to power? In most cases, simply putting an inexpensive "jump box" in the car and plugging the accessories into the jump box would be the easiest way to do that. Periodically, you can take the jump box and charge it when the car is in the garage. 

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My Allis-Chalmers B has no charging system at all. You just keep the charge up. A small 12v battery with a circuit to some accessories would be easy to set up.

 

When I was a kid working at my Granfather's tire shop we always had a shelf with batteries. One would have a radio attached. Stuff like that runs a long time.

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No two people will give the same answer to any electrical question, it is best to just forget about it and enjoy looking at your car. Bob 

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What accessories? What are their current requirements and how many hours do you want them to run?

 

There are DC to DC converters that have no common reference between input and output, so you can run a 6V+ ground system and make a 12V - ground accessory system. 

 

Here is one stating for positive ground to negative ground accessories: (look down the page)

 

https://www.powerstream.com/dcdc-6V.htm

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I have two collector cars     one       32 Plymouth PA that I drive as it was from the factory   no voltage regulator,  just a cut out and third brush       also a 36 with what was the early duel voltage attempt        I replaced both the wire harness       I do have a radio in 36 that is an old VW 12 volt    that I run with some kind of voltage step up or step down that I found          other than radio    what else do you need ?   if the wires are good and the generator is good      should be OK  for hobby type cruising

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Yes I was just wondering about running a converter to maybe keep a battery charged to run a stereo and some cool lights for the most part, the only touching I would do to the original car is wiring in the converter to the battery, to keep it all isolated I would have the system set up in the trunk on some plywood with a grounded fuse block meant for a boat and will just run my wires back to that and make sure all my connections are sealed well throughout the car. 

Also my car seems to be a negative ground already as I think someone changed it.

I was thinking about making the car actually 12 V but I changed my mind as the 6V system works good for the most part and I don't want to mess with it.

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You never mentioned what car you have.

 

So we cannot answer if you have 6 or 12 volts and negative or positive ground from the factory.

 

Information is good to have in answering questions. Why people do not include  all relevant information when asking a question.... How do they expect a knowledgeable response?

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Someone has changed this car to neg ground and he likes it that way.

So the wires at the amp gauge would have been switched at minimum.. I suspect that the charging system must have been updated some way as well.

Maybe the fuel gauge?

When I had my 52 Plymouth on consignment at a dealership and one of the salesman hooked the battery up backwards, it made some strange whining sound and wouldn't run.

Fortunately when I was called in about this all I did was reverse the cables on the battery and there was no damage. (At least he was smart enough to unhook that battery when it made the noise).

I have problems with guys that know more about my stuff than I do.

Edited by JACK M (see edit history)

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When David Cammack had the three Tuckers in the building in Alexandria, VA, I noted one was opposite ground of the other two. Hmm, which one is right? I went upstairs where he had stored all the Tucker blueprints and found the sheet with the battery connections. Of course, he didn't want or need to change the odd duck back, since all he would do is start them to load onto trailers if they needed to go anywhere. They NEVER drove anywhere. 

 

No, been too many years, I do not remember which ground was correct.😁

 

Probably one is still backwards sitting in the "not to be named" museum.😉

 

I also wonder if the drawings made it to the AACA library, or lost somewhere in that museum.

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Well the special deluxe seems to be working fine with negative ground so I am just going to leave it that way. because all my gauges seem to work and stuff so.

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Ok so i did some research and found most CONVERTERS are maxed output at around 7 amps at 12v. I did some basic math and found I will definitely have more than a 7 amp draw on the system so I would need a battery in the system as the converters say do not draw more than 7 amps from them. So if I have a deep cycle (in case it goes dead) and just use the converter as a small charge current would that be okay or would the converter still not like that. I know the battery would get drawn down but if I turned all my accessories off then it would get some time to charge. 

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What accessories are you planning to add? I can't imagine over 7 amps worth of accessories that you could be running.

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I agree with John S in Penna, and if it was my car I would not change it.

 

In 2008 I bought a 1962 Triumph specifically for the purpose of restoring to all original.  The car had less than 43,000 miles on it, but the previous owner had converted the electrical system from a generator to alternator and from 12V Positive ground to Negative ground within the previous few years and guess what, the system would not charge.

 

Yes the system would not charge and other then the alternator replacement, everything about the electrical system was in perfect operating condition.  In fact the wiring harness had absolutely no issues other then replacing the harness wrap with new blue wrapping tape.  Even the original voltage regulator was in perfect condition.  I rebuilt a used original style generator I got from eBay, installed everything and the system now worked perfect.  

 

Sounds like you are following the philosophy "If it ain't broke, fix it until it is".

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Vila said:

Sounds like you are following the philosophy "If it ain't broke, fix it until it is". 

 

Vila, LMAO!

 

Kidding aside, I agree with those who would leave it alone if it otherwise works fine.  Of course, if you really want a stereo and some "cool lights", some design work is in order.  Some high end stereos require a lot of power; however, if you just want some good driving tunes, there are many portable, battery-powered devices available that sound great over headphones.

 

Good luck and let us know what you eventually come up with.

 

Cheers,

Grog

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If you need more than 7 amps for you 12 volt accessories just use two (2) converters. At one time I had three on my Pontiac at the same time and they and the accessories worked fine.

I found that some electrical products to not list how much they draw, and many places will not refund on opened boxes.  Simple solution was to insist that they open the box and connect it up so I/we could see the draw, otherwise I went elsewhere.  I never had to ask twice.

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1 hour ago, Tinindian said:

If you need more than 7 amps for you 12 volt accessories just use two (2) converters. At one time I had three on my Pontiac at the same time and they and the accessories worked fine.

I found that some electrical products to not list how much they draw, and many places will not refund on opened boxes.  Simple solution was to insist that they open the box and connect it up so I/we could see the draw, otherwise I went elsewhere.  I never had to ask twice.

Ok so running multiple converters is viable good to know, I was thinking of that but was worried how much draw it would put on the old 6V system as I can't find how much amperage the converter itself draws under operation. 

I was just going to start with some led lights and a small stereo that was just going to be a two speaker system from a controlled amplifier so I don't need an ugly head unit and a small powered sub for a little extra bass. other than that I was just thinking of (maybe trigger alert here) putting in some twelve volt headlights that had a halo ring in them, which I can always switch back to normal headlights from I would like to add. Unless I was doing my math wrong a pair of 60W headlights will draw just over 7A by themselves, unless i was doing something wrong.

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2 hours ago, Vila said:

I agree with John S in Penna, and if it was my car I would not change it.

 

In 2008 I bought a 1962 Triumph specifically for the purpose of restoring to all original.  The car had less than 43,000 miles on it, but the previous owner had converted the electrical system from a generator to alternator and from 12V Positive ground to Negative ground within the previous few years and guess what, the system would not charge.

 

Yes the system would not charge and other then the alternator replacement, everything about the electrical system was in perfect operating condition.  In fact the wiring harness had absolutely no issues other then replacing the harness wrap with new blue wrapping tape.  Even the original voltage regulator was in perfect condition.  I rebuilt a used original style generator I got from eBay, installed everything and the system now worked perfect.  

 

Sounds like you are following the philosophy "If it ain't broke, fix it until it is".

 

 

I don't understand how people are getting confused her I am going to install A 6 to 12 volt CONVERTER. the only touching I will be doing to the original system is tapping in to the battery with one little cable. I thought about converting it over but it all works good as is so I am leaving it that way. Also I am an 18 year old kid, I like the car because I want to work on it and get it running as a piece of history but I also want it to have some cool touches that I want, most of which if needed will be able to be taken completely out if need be. 

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Good outlook, small changes to your liking but make them reversible. L.E.D.'s should have a very low draw. The stereo will be a different story. Perhaps look for a reasonably efficient stereo or start with a "small" one and see if you really need one that rattles the neighbours windows.

 

Greg in Canada

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Pair of 60 watt bulbs is 120 watts. 120 / 12 = 10 Amps.

 

Personally agree with stereo and LED lights added for safety.

 

I would not replace the existing headlamps, if they are sealed beams, just make sure connections are good for maximum light output. Everyone makes jokes of the  dim 6 volt VW headlamps behind the glass lens. Usually the dim lamps were a result of bad connections on those weird German fuses they used. American cars usually had circuit breakers with better bolted connections on 6 volt systems in the 50s.

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3 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

Pair of 60 watt bulbs is 120 watts. 120 / 12 = 10 Amps.

 

Personally agree with stereo and LED lights added for safety.

 

I would not replace the existing headlamps, if they are sealed beams, just make sure connections are good for maximum light output. Everyone makes jokes of the  dim 6 volt VW headlamps behind the glass lens. Usually the dim lamps were a result of bad connections on those weird German fuses they used. American cars usually had circuit breakers with better bolted connections on 6 volt systems in the 50s.

Ya the other headlights are a long term future thing. I want to mess around with the old headlights first, get them working and stuff. I am in college so I cant just throw money at it all day. Just a little here and there. I have all the wiring diagrams in my service manual so should be able to get it figured.

 

5 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

Good outlook, small changes to your liking but make them reversible. L.E.D.'s should have a very low draw. The stereo will be a different story. Perhaps look for a reasonably efficient stereo or start with a "small" one and see if you really need one that rattles the neighbours windows.

 

Greg in Canada

Ya I'm not putting a crazy system in it. the system would only be two speakers at like 25W RMS and a little sub running like barely 150W RMS. And not like I will always be cranking it and can turn the sub down when in just cruising to use less battery. and the sub is also rated at 14.4 volts which I would not be able to achieve that, so together like 15A max when I'm cranking on it, which definitely wont be all the time. So just cruising might draw just over 7A. And if I drove a bit with the tunes off it would slowly charge back up so. And if I need can buy and wire in another converter too.

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