What make is this High Wheeler 1906 - 1910?

[Mike Macartney]

Hi, this high wheeler has come up for sale in the UK. Does anybody have any idea who would have manufactured this?

The advert says " It has fitted a 1908 Petrol Engine made by the American Engine Co " and "The make is unknown but it could be a Holsman or Sears?"

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[1937hd45]

Looks nice, can you post photos of the front axle amd spindles, along with the engine to rear axle drive? Bob 

Edited January 8, 2019 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[Mike Macartney]

He are some more photos. I have not contacted the seller yet. It looks to me as if the drive to the rear axle is missing.

 

[mercer09]

Looks like a carriage made into a high wheeler......................

[1937hd45]

The hand crank is Model T Ford.

 

Bob

[George Albright]

Made up car out of a carriage. The engine mounts give it away. Worth $1,000 max as a toy. George Albright,Florida 

[oily rag]

I don't see any brakes or drive chains, belts or rollers on the wheels. 

[Mike Macartney]

5 hours ago, George Albright said:

Made up car out of a carriage. The engine mounts give it away. Worth $1,000 max as a toy. George Albright, Florida 

 

Thanks George, that's what my thoughts were.

 

[wayne sheldon]

I agree with the above comments. While better than most, it has a few telltale signs of being a made-up car. And clearly, it was never completed. I really wish I could go spend a couple hours looking it over very closely. I have an unknown-builder high-wheeler myself. So I am very interested in the little details, type of workmanship on various parts, materials used, holes where they should not be, and so forth.

 

People did actually build such cars back in the early days of the automobile, and a whole cottage industry formed for a very few years providing people with the necessary parts to convert a common carriage into an automobile (Dykes of auto manuals fame started out selling catalog items that way about 1900!). There are a few known survivors of such cars. However, I do not believe that is one of them.

Probably a few hundred such "horseless carriages" were built during the '30s/'40s/'50s. Actually, they still build them, they just call them "replica" or "tribute" cars. In the early days of the antique automobile hobby, quite a few people decided it would be fun to get into the hobby! It seems difficult to understand today. In those early years, the real things could be found in almost every town in the country! They could be had for a few dollars, sometimes even less! But a lot of people didn't "get" it. They saw pictures of a few cars in a parade, thought it would be fun, and set out to build their own. Old horse drawn carriages were a dime a dozen, usually, and any small gasoline motor would do. Crude, poorly thought out mountings were made. And, usually, a few parts off a model T Ford. A lot of those people simply did not realize that the idea was to find and save a "real" antique car.

The motor on the car in question appears to be a small boat motor, probably from the 1910s. The carburetor is mid '10s. The motor mounting is typical "not-well-done". And of course, there is that model T hand crank (1920s version).

[Mike Macartney]

Wayne, that's interesting read. Over here in the UK we do not see many high wheelers. I have only seen a couple in Belgium at 'Happy Old Iron'. https://www.deknienstal.com/ when I went there to buy my Crestmobile. It would be nice to see some photos of your unknown-builder high-wheeler.

[1937hd45]

Popular Science or like magazine in the 1950's had features on cars that were made from buggies, a copy should turn up on eBay. Bob 

[wayne sheldon]

Mike M,

Hopefully, these pictures will post okay. A computer nerd I am not.

 

Unfortunately, this "car" was the victim of some bad restoration a few decades before I got it. The "restorer" did a few good things, like having an Amish wheelwright restore the wheels. On the other hand, they also lost several important original pieces which I now need to make replacements for. They also recorded NOTHING! While much of the chassis fits together nicely, they left no pictures of it in its before state. As it sits, it is just hanging together, modern bolts, bailing wire. There is more than what is shown in the pictures, but not not a lot.

 

This never was a horse drawn carriage or wagon. the frame and suspension were blacksmith built for an automobile. The iron used was manufactured by one of several leading USA steel manufacturers of the 1890s, and they were sold out and ceased to exist in 1915. The motor is very crude, could even be a one-off build. However, I did through my research find a Canadian company that built a very similar engine for two years (late 1898 into early 1900). They found too much competition in the automobile engine market and dropped the idea to concentrate on the industrial and steam engines that they had been building for several years (they built some incredible BIG stuff!). The axles are a common steel light wagon axle, available for many years. The front was cut, and forge welded to make a steerable front axle. Information on how to do this (including Ackermann principals) were published in the "Horseless Age" magazine in 1897 if I recall correctly (I do have copies of the article). The wheels are also light wagon wheels. My supposition is that the wagon axles and wheels were used because of the weight and vibration expected for an automobile. Standard buggy axles and wheels would have never worked for very long (one of the common mistakes of made-up high-wheelers, although a few actual companies manufacturing such cars around 1906/'08 also did that. The wheel base and track are both sixty inch (about 150 cm if I am not mixing up my conversions?).

 

I am not surprised you do not see many High-wheel automobiles in England. They were mostly an American phenomenon. History does show quite a few high wheel early experimental cars were built in Europe and Great Briton, as well as the USA. However,  Europe and Great Briton had decent roads dating back to the late Roman Empire. There was good reason for automobiles to develop that could be driven on those roads. In America, however,  early manufactured automobiles were also mostly built for cities because they had decent roads, whereas nearly all outlying areas had poor roads if any. But as the automobile industry grew, more and more people out in the country also wanted one. So there is a curious gap between the early experimental high wheel cars of the 1890s, and the common manufactured high wheel cars built mostly from 1907 to 1912. Holsman is considered the first significant production high-wheel automobile to hit the American marketplace, in 1902. A few others followed slowly until about 1907 when a dozen or more companies offered such cars here. By 1912, nearly fifty companies had entered and left that market, leaving barely a handful. Sears/Lincoln hung on until 1913, IHC light trucks (lorries) until about 1916. Most of those companies went broke. A few switched to so-called "conventional" automobiles.

 

(I hope the three pictures I uploaded post okay?)

I also hope I live long enough to get this thing restored!

 

 

[Mike Macartney]

Wayne

Thanks for all the interesting information on the high-wheelers. It looks as if you still have a lot of work to do on your 'car'. I have the same problem 'will I live long enough' to finish all my projects:

1914 Humberette (working on now), 1980 BMW E30 325i touring (mechanical work done, needs repainting, etc), 1899 Perks and Birch motor wheel tricycle (bought as a basket case (I have done the research and some engine work, but still have many parts still to restore or make). Plus 4 veteran and vintage motorcycles to keep running, as well as Janes 1934 Singer 9 Le Mans and my V8 MGB.  At least messing about in the garage gets me out of housework and gardening!

Mike