NZStuart

27 Dodge Touring Electric Fuel Pump

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Posted (edited)

At some stage the previous owner has fitted an electric fuel pump to the Dodge. While I'm always on the lookout for an original vacuum tank I'm not too hopeful. In the mean time I'm stuck with a Aitex E8011 pump. Seems to work ok but never shuts off. Runs at 5-8psi and there is an alternate model that runs at 2-4 PSI. Question I have should I replace pump with lower pressure unit or add a pressure regulator? I'm concerned it might be overwhelming needle valve in Carb. No obvious signs of fuel overflow but as I said pump doesn't seem to shutoff leave ignition on for 30 seconds and it will pump all the time.

 

Location could also be an issue with manufacture recommending mount close to tank and pushing fuel through, currently pump is mounted in engine bay close to carb so effectively sucks fuel length of the car.

Edited by NZStuart
update (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

I have fitted small diaphragm 12v electric pumps at the fuel tank and pump it straight up to the carbi with no real problems so far. They run pretty low pressure. 

Edited by Mattml430
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The old timers in the Dodge Bros. Club told me that when using an electric fuel pump with the Stewart carburetor, fuel pressure should be regulated down to 1.5 pounds.  The Stewart was gravity-fed, and can't take very much fuel pressure.

I discovered that struggling to get a vacuum tank working, and having to thoroughly learn its theory of operation in order to make it work, built character.  My head is puffed up bigger than ever, and I'm a really proud DB owner now.  I recommend it!

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I have installed a diaphragm type pump back at the tank, with a dash switch to use if the vacuum tank stops working.  Ethanol in the fuel destroyed the diaphragm, and filled the fuel line with a tar like mess!!  I then installed a piston type pump, and had to completely flush the line.  I often wondered which location of the pump was best, but where it is, seems to be OK.  Don't know if ethanol is in your fuel.  My car is a Sedan that I did a body off restoration, and so far so good!!     

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Thanks will look at getting a pressure regulator but ideally at some point I'd like to refit a vacuum tank but hard to find a unit.

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I don't think it would be that difficult to source the proper vacuum tank for your car here in the U.S.  It's not a terribly large or bulky item as far as shipping, although I'm sure it isn't cheap to NZ.  Just a thought.  

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Posted (edited)

I use a $15 Chinese electric fuel pump (which I am finding more reliable than a +$100 SU style of pump) near the tank with a Speco fuel pressure regulator, set about 1.5psi, near the carb. The ticing/knocking sound you will get use to. You can minimise the pump sound by isolating it with rubber mounts. Also, if you have good oil pressure, you can use an oil pressure switch from a modern car for safety.

Edited by maok
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A local family donated a 1925 Dodge Business coupe to our high school and I along with several students have begun working on it. I have rebuilt many carburetors in my time but none like the Stewart so we are looking for some help and advice.

We have rebuilt the carburetor and started the engine but it will only run if we fill the float bowl manually. The previous owner had mounted an electric fuel pump before the vacuum chamber so we know the chamber is getting fuel. We pulled the top off of the float bowel, filled it with fuel and started the engine. The fuel will not fill the float bowl until the engine is shut off and then a stream of fuel will come up through the needle valve hole for a second or two then stop. This is where we are stumped, why is the fuel not flowing to the bowl while the engine is running? We did check to see if there was vacuum coming from the engine to the vacuum chamber and there is some but not very much, is this normal? Any help would be appreciated.

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3 hours ago, MikeC5 said:

I don't think it would be that difficult to source the proper vacuum tank for your car here in the U.S.  It's not a terribly large or bulky item as far as shipping, although I'm sure it isn't cheap to NZ.  Just a thought.  

 I've checked out Ebay there's some tanks there for USD $200 which turns into $400 NZD (Average wage on New Zealand is $928/week) which is fairly expensive. I could probably suck it up if I could guarantee tank is in good working condition but what really hurts is selling charging another USD 150-200 Freight to get it here.

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2 hours ago, Lonnie Franklin said:

A local family donated a 1925 Dodge Business coupe to our high school and I along with several students have begun working on it. I have rebuilt many carburetors in my time but none like the Stewart so we are looking for some help and advice.

We have rebuilt the carburetor and started the engine but it will only run if we fill the float bowl manually. The previous owner had mounted an electric fuel pump before the vacuum chamber so we know the chamber is getting fuel. We pulled the top off of the float bowel, filled it with fuel and started the engine. The fuel will not fill the float bowl until the engine is shut off and then a stream of fuel will come up through the needle valve hole for a second or two then stop. This is where we are stumped, why is the fuel not flowing to the bowl while the engine is running? We did check to see if there was vacuum coming from the engine to the vacuum chamber and there is some but not very much, is this normal? Any help would be appreciated.

 

Sounds like the vacuum tank is trying to suck air through the float bowl. I have not been into one yet as mine is functional (knock on wood), but that is the only connection to the symptoms you are describing

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36 minutes ago, NZStuart said:

another USD 150-200 Freight to get it here.

Use NZ Post's YouShop service. Get it shipped to their bureau in Oregon, then NZPost will ship it from there, probably for 30NZD or less, depending on size and weight of course.

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3 hours ago, Lonnie Franklin said:

Any help would be appreciated.

If you search these fora you should find a document on servicing vacuum tank fuel pumps. It sounds like you need to learn about, understand and service yours.

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The Dodge Brothers Club store has reprints of instructions for the vacuum tanks and Stewart Carbs. along with many other copies of information to keep your DB running. 

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Hi I'm just going to tell of my 1st experience with my D/B  1918. I bought the car got it home installed a new battery electric fuel pump only pumped while the engine was not running  if the engine was running the generator started to charge the fuel pump would stop. ( found out the pump was polarity sensitive I had the new battery in negative ground car was positive ground  worked fine after changing cables around)   Mike

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A local family donated a 1925 Dodge Business coupe to our high school and I along with several students have begun working on it. We have solved the fuel starvation problem with the vacuum tank but have run into another problem. The Dodge starts and runs fine even when the engine is up to temperature, but if the engine is shut off or stalled it will not start until it cools down again. We do have fuel and spark but the engine will not even begin to start, we have changed the coil with no success. We are going to adjust the valves on Monday. Any ideas?

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Starter sucking up all the juice?

Clean battery cables ands connections.

It is also suggested on the forum to use heavy welding cable for the battery.

I see that you have spark, but is it crisp and hot?

I had a set of spark plugs once that showed spark when I grounded to the block but wouldn't run in the car. Changed to a different brand and the problem went away.

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Is it getting too much fuel? It wants lots of fuel when cold, but not hot.

 

Basically, did you fix the original vacuum tank fuel pump or install an electric pump? If electric, is the pressure as low as the head between vacuum tank and carb?

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Lonnie Franklin said:

A local family donated a 1925 Dodge Business coupe to our high school and I along with several students have begun working on it. We have solved the fuel starvation problem with the vacuum tank but have run into another problem. The Dodge starts and runs fine even when the engine is up to temperature, but if the engine is shut off or stalled it will not start until it cools down again. We do have fuel and spark but the engine will not even begin to start, we have changed the coil with no success. We are going to adjust the valves on Monday. Any ideas?

 

Happy to see enthusiasts in this age group!

 

When trying to start the engine when hot (maybe 5 minutes to 45 minutes after shutdown), do NOT open the throttle. Begin to crank the engine, and while cranking after maybe 5 seconds, open the throttle maybe 1/4 of the distance. The engine should start but run rough for 30 seconds to a minute; then it should run fine.

 

Please report back on the results.

 

Jon.

Edited by carbking (see edit history)

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Jack and Spinneyhill thanks for the reply. We used a spark plug tester but I can't say I like the intensity of the spark, I will check that again. We did repair the original vacuum tank but do have a low pressure fuel pump that helps feed the vacuum tank from the fuel tank.

 

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Jon,, Spinneyhill, Jack and David,

 

It looks like we got it, the Dodge will now start when the engine is hot and it runs very well. We test drove it again yesterday and started it many times after it was up to temperature. The students (one who is very good and rebuilds antique motorcycle) went through all the adjustments again, valves, timing and carb etc. and now the Dodge is running fine, ( knock on wood).

The students have really enjoyed working on it me included. Now we will be getting it ready to put in our town's Memorial Day Parade at the end of May.

 

Thank you for all your help!

 

Lonnie

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 Lonnie , Good Work . The cost for these master mechanic's advice can be offset by some pictures or the car , students and parade . This is what we enjoy !

        Tom

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Tom,

Here are some pictures as requested. :)

 

There are less and less young people that have an interest in cars now but to see how involved the auto shop students with the Dodge gives me hope that our hobby will survive. In October of each year the technology group, CTE, has an open house to introduce students and their parents to Autos, Engineering, CAD, Energy and Carpentry. Along with the open house the Auto Shop instructor Ron Weston has the class put on a small car show and the students bring in antique cars, performance cars and racecars to display. Some of the students have been working on these vehicles with their fathers since there were young, it’s great to see!

The Hartland autos program consist of grades 9-12 and is ASE certified in maintenance and light repair and is taught by Ron Weston. There are three class levels Basic Auto, 1st year Maintenance and Light Repair and 2nd year Maintenance and Light Repair. All eight vehicle systems are covered. They have two other project cars, a 1969 Plymouth Barracuda drag car which is complete and a 1983 Buick Regal which will be transformed into a drag car. 

 

Lonnie

Dodge2.jpg

Dodge3.jpg

Dodge1.jpg

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Fantastic car, fantastic project and a fantastic group of kids. And of course the teachers/instructors driving the project.

Should be more of it. Well done to all involved.

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