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1 hour ago, Dynaflash8 said:

Brian,

Where did you find your 87? 

 

 

now back on topic...what other questions do potential candidates have.

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2 hours ago, Terry Wiegand said:

Ben,

I was told that divorce papers would be served if I got anywhere near the BCA Board of Directors EVER again.  I feel like the puppy that tried to hump that skunk - I've had all of that crap that I want!

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

 I'll bet you have ,Terry. The old phrase "you can't fight city hall "  comes to mind.   Status quo is a tough thing.  Just ask the Donald!

 

  Ben

 

  

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8 hours ago, 38Buick 80C said:

 

 

now back on topic...what other questions do potential candidates have.

10-4.................over and out

 

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10 hours ago, 38Buick 80C said:

I'm happily chairing the BCA National Meet in 2021 in Concord,NC with Marck Barker, the co-chair, handling all the NMC meetings for our meet.

  I might just have to mark my calendar for that National as you did such a great job in 2012. Would appreciate it if you would put in the word we don't need qute so much heat though.

 

Carl

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Not that it's always that way, but sometimes "status quo" might be considered to be "pretty good" when it's gone and something else takes its place.  Something else that sure did look good to start with, but got into "that handbasket" afterward.

 

As much as we might desire to "force" something to an alleged better place, sometimes, when it gets to that place by evolution, a while later, it seems to be a better deal than it could have been if forced earlier on.  Having faith that it'll get there is the problem.  Giving "it" a little help along the way can have variable results.

 

At work, there were times I'd see something and advise my supervisor about it.  I'd get that "What do YOU know" reaction.  BUT 6 months later, they'd seen it too and something was done about it them.  If something had been done sooner, then that problem could have been solved earlier-on and we could have progressed with a better situation sooner rather than later, which should have helped things be better sooner.  But it doesn't always happen that way.  So you just see those things, shake your head, and go on.  When you see that cycke repeat several times, managers aware, but nothing is done, then you presume they are satisfied with that level of mediocrity as they make their own bed, so to speak.  So, onward and (whatever direction you might desire to choose).

 

NTX5467

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I would encourage anyone who has a desire to make the BCA a BETTER Club to run for the BOD. Three  members will be elected this year and every year. Some may be incumbents, or they may all be new BOD members. I would say the first thing you would want to think about is what you like and dislike about the current BCA. If you read the general topics in the forum, you may think that the Club is a mess. Nothing is further from the truth . The "status quo" as it may be called ; is that the Club is in excellent financial health.The National Meets are being run by a partnership between the host Chapter and The National Meet Committee. The Bugle has never been a better publication than it is now. I personally think that the BCA is currently as good a Club as it has ever been, with the one exception. That exception is that in prior years, our membership has always considered each other as family. I have seen that go away in the BCA, as it has gone away in our Country. 

A new BOD member may want to consider that we have a declining membership. Almost every organization in this Country has a declining membership. The good news is that we have one of the best retention levels of any of the current automobile Clubs. The BCA is operating at a break-even to slight loss scenario. We have a healthy surplus to keep the Club vibrant for many years to come with proper fiducial management. If you think you can help us improve on this already wonderful Club, run for the BOD.

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I don't ever remember a time that the BCA as a policy asked members to run for the board.  There may have been times when individual members of the board asked people they thought would make good officers to run or to consider running, but that was on an individual basis and not done with any kind of formality or board discussion.  The BCA has always made known that it was time to put your name in to run for the board if you wished in plenty of time via the Bugle and always made it a very open invitation for ANYBODY that was a member in good standing to run. It was always very clear in the Bugle that anyone could run.

 

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Brian - the youngest turns 19 next month...I’ll try to remember to let you know if / when any of them leave 🙄😳😂. Listening to She Who Must Be Obeyed is of prime importance.

 

There’s only one I recall, possibly two, who suggested I run for the board...if there was a second, they both had the same first name starting with B and ending with n.  That may not quite be true...over there years there have probably been a few others who did some urging...likely some former BOD members from MN.  I still have an interest, but still have some additional ducks to get in a row.  My National Meet attendance the last few years hasn’t been what I was hoping.  Perhaps if I didn’t keep hoarding Buicks I might have more time...too much time deciding which to make a priority in a given year...sigh.

 

Good luck to the candidates.  I do like the earlier comment about civility...it does seem to be on the decrease somewhat in our North American society.

 

On another note, with the earlier discussion about meetings and such, it occurred to me that a web conferencing tool (such as Zoom for one that I’m more familiar with, but there are others) could be used and members could potentially listen / watch the proceedings (organizer of the conference can decide who is muted and non-BOD members should probably not have their cameras going.

 

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11 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

Formal conf calls cost money.  Conf calls on cell phones don't.

The BOD currently uses AT & T to record and set up our scheduled teleconference calls. It is expensive, but we get a hard copy print out and and audio recording upon call completion. I use and interpret those to do my teleconference minutes. It is not perfect, but it is a third party backup and in fairness to all, it is very important to have that. That said, I think we are a bit off topic. This discussion should probably be under the Minutes thread.

 

Edited by Jack Welch (see edit history)
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 inJack, thanks for that clarification on the dynamics of the BCA  BOD's conference calls.  I like that dynamic.

 

In reading through that last-posted transcript, the first part, several suspicions tended to be confirmed to me.  In my "cloud line" observation and different perceptions of what's really going on at the "bottom of the mountain".  I've seen this happen in corporations and also in smaller local businesses, so no real surprise to me.  Be that as it may.

 

As I've observed before, it takes more than just a love of a particular brand/model of vehicle to make a good BOD member, of ANY similar board.  It takes that devotion, plus a mix of gumption, horse sense, and doing what's right to make the group a better place for all to enjoy being in.  I don't like it when I see signals that some group is seeking to "stack the board" in their favor, so to speak, by advocating that candidates who think like they do run and get elected.  "Politics" doesn't need to be a part of any BOD, but it happens.  We know that it happens.  In some respects, the group can have more mediocre outcomes as a result.

 

So, IF I'm going to vote for somebody, I want the assurance that they WILL work for the total good of the BCA, in a POSITIVE manner, in ALL respects.  NOT to be elected to the BOD to get one particular niche issue approved.  "Conflict" and "frenzy" need to be minimized so that things can happen smoothly . . . even if some spirited/passionate/emotional presentations might be made on a particular item . . . for the complete GOOD of the BCA and its members.  Which can also include making a "business decision", where necessary.

 

In these cases, it might be good for the particular BOD member to have a better working knowledge of what they are deciding about.  This is another observed short-coming of corporate America today.  With so many managers coming into the mix of a particular entity in modern times, many times, they don't have the existing knowledge that is needed to make "informed decisions", relying (as many legislators tend to do) upon "staff" to advise them instead.  Rather than digging in to build their own knowledge base on a particular subject BEFORE making any decisions.  NOT that some BOD members might currently be doing such additional educational things, but it's always a good idea, to me, to ensure that the latest information available is used rather than something somewhat dated.  Be that as it may.  So, I'd want to know that whomever gets my vote will go "the extra mile" in this respect.

 

Many might perceive the BCA in the same orientation as just "a bigger car club" than the one they might be in locally.  That's reasonable.  But there's much more there, especially when a total realization of what goes on in the day-to-day, month-to-month realm of normal operations.  Similarly, the BCA does not necessarily need to be an operational clone of another car club.  No two car clubs are alike as no two BCA chapters are completely alike.  Not to say that taking some good points from each to combine/modify for use in the BCA or its chapters can't be done when the end result is a "positive" for all involved.

 

One other thing I'd like to mention.  In BOD votes, I feel that there should not be any "close votes" (as 5-4) in the future.  If such a situation should happen, then more consideration to the particular agenda item should be respectfully reconsidered by ALL such that the outcome is a more universally-desired outcome rather than otherwise.  Can this become a new SOP?

 

It is NOT my desire to keep potential candidates from considering running for the BCA BOD.  Everybody who feels they can make a positive contribution to the BCA needs to run, if desired (with approval from spousal family members, where applicable).

 

I make these comments as a free-standing member of the BCA.  I speak for none of the other entities with which I'm involved in or a member of.

 

Respectfully,

Willis Bell  20811

Edited by NTX5467 (see edit history)
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Willis, 

     I have read many of your "rather long winded" posts in the past, and I must say that this one is the best and most reasonable yet. 

 

The primary reason for the boards in most organizations to have an odd number of voting members is to resolve any impasse by a single vote.  I feel it is important for BCA members to know that the BCA has an extra voting member only for financial and national meet issues that effectively defeats the purpose of having odd numbers of votes when it comes to financial or national meet issues.  Perhaps this is why the BCA has failed to publish complete financial reports for over three years, and is now awaiting a long overdue audit, and continues to struggle with national meet parking issues.

 

Edited by Mark Shaw (see edit history)
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If I may state a few issues I continue to see with past BOD and continue to see to day. Its call listen to the folks who pay the bill, by that I mean the members. The members have and always will have the best answer to the problems of the club {not always} The job of BOD member will always be an on the job training and it takes a full year to get up to speed. By then there are now members to get up to speed. The Board has an odd number for one reason, and that is to avoid a tie and a non elected member on the board should NEVER HAVE A VOTE. It upsets the balance period. The Board in the past has not been flexible to new ideas. The board has become bogged down with audit, parking, membership decline, and now office staff and what hours the office will be open and what can the office staff can do. Talk about OJT. Who will do what and when. Lets face it the number one thing the club has to do is publish the Bugle and do a National Meet. The Bugle and the National meet are complex issues and seem to be done very well. The old adage is if it aint broke don't try to fix it. That leaves the Boards one job to put out REAL FIRES and fund the BUGLE and the NATIONAL MEET and to listen to their customers which is us the folks who pay the way. Its pretty simple a candidate should be someone who is willing to learn and listen and be prepared to swim up stream. 

Just a side note I have written the current board about some issues I have seen in the past and I have only heard from 2 so when the time comes to assign duties to the new office folks don't ask them to do what you as a board member wont do. This board and the future one needs to adapt the SUNDOWN RULE. 

For what its worth.

.

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Chuck, you make some astute observations in your post of 1/15/2019.  However, here is a different take on the BOD members responsibilities. 

You (and Willis) have indicated that the BOD members should take the time to learn the nuances of the problems before the BOD, be it the financial issues or contracts with vendors and/or whatever else comes before the Board.  You also have indicated that the basic job of the BCA is to fund the magazine,  the national meet, and to listen to the members.

In my opinion the reason the BCA has been successful with the Bugle and the National Meet is because there is a disconnect between the BOD and the function.  Pete and Cindy do an excellent job on the Bugle, and the National Meet Committee has done good job of assisting local committees to run well organized and fun National Meets.  It is directly because the BOD allowed a committee to focus on the problem at hand, rather than trying to manage every aspect of the issue, that these two elements of the Club have been consistently excellent.  If the BOD would stop trying to micro manage every aspect of whatever issue is before them, and instead, authorize committees to make learned recommendations, it wouldn't be necessary for every member of the board to be experts on every issue before them.

 As I am sure you are aware, the tendency on the BOD is for everyone to make their point and recommendation, but regardless of all good intentions, not everyone has the proper background to make the best recommendations and, in fact, given that there are 9 BOD members, the BOD can often run off topic and miss important nuances of whatever they are working on.  So, if the BOD would consider reaching out to the members, and establish some committees with people who are trained in the aspects of the problem they are working on, then perhaps there would be some forward progress on the issues that seem to have stymied the Club.

I also want to agree with your observation that the BOD should not expect others to do what they won’t.  Also, that the BOD should be more responsive to the member’s requests.  When 100 people vote for an action, and 5 members of the BOD vote against that action, with no explanation, then that is a BOD consisting of people who have their own agenda, regardless of what is right for the Club.  We can see in the latest minutes that were posted, that there are two voting blocs currently.  What is missing is what Willis suggested, the ability to compromise.   So, I am hoping there are at least two BOD candidates who show the ability to work across the aisle for the betterment of the Club.  

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44 minutes ago, JohnD1956 said:

  Also, that the BOD should be more responsive to the member’s requests.  When 100 people vote for an action, and 5 members of the BOD vote against that action, with no explanation, then that is a BOD consisting of people who have their own agenda, regardless of what is right for the Club.  

 

We all are entitled to our own opinion but I have a very different take on this portion of your post. When a majority of the voting members of the club elect an officer, and only 100 people present at a meeting join together after having been given some information that is false or misleading try to throw that member out of the club, the members of the board who voted to expel that member would be the ones whose actions would concern me. 

 

I hope that the financial secrecy will soon be a thing of the past. I hope that good candidates will run for the board and that the voting members elect candidates who will continue in the improvement and additional transparency in operation of the club. There are places for use of committees, but ultimately, the Board of Directors has to be responsible for the operation of the club. 

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"I also want to agree with your observation that the BOD should not expect others to do what they won’t.  Also, that the BOD should be more responsive to the member’s requests.  When 100 people vote for an action, and 5 members of the BOD vote against that action, with no explanation, then that is a BOD consisting of people who have their own agenda, regardless of what is right for the Club.  We can see in the latest minutes that were posted, that there are two voting blocs currently.  What is missing is what Willis suggested, the ability to compromise.   So, I am hoping there are at least two BOD candidates who show the ability to work across the aisle for the betterment of the Club".  

 

John : your wisdom and counsel on the BOD are badly missed as is your efficiency as Secretary.

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3 hours ago, MCHinson said:

We all are entitled to our own opinion

 

Thank you.  

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4 hours ago, JohnD1956 said:

When 100 people vote for an action, and 5 members of the BOD vote against that action, with no explanation, then that is a BOD consisting of people who have their own agenda, regardless of what is right for the Club.

 

We had a similar situation here with a local parks board.  They were debating closing some trails to mountain bikes.  The announcement of their decision went something like this: "Although over 90% of the feedback we received from the public was opposed to closing these trails, we are proceeding with the closures in order to preserve our vision for the parks."

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The point is that any representative democracy (club, government, etc.) is at risk of having those selected to represent the entirety of the club/public/whatever deciding that they are no longer beholden to the whole of those whom they represent, but rather to a select few.

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I am aware that micro-management is not a good thing to happen, in all situations.  IF micro-management happens, the possibly the one doing the micro-managing should have been in charge of the situation, from the start, should have happened so the perceived result will happen to their liking.  Rather than forming a group to do it, then being too involved in what the group does and how they do it.

 

In the realm of Management, "Theory X" management is highly-controlled by "management".  "Theory Y" management gives a general desire and ultimate goal, but allows those involved to do what they can to make it happen, on their own, as long as the goal is achieved.  Theory Y would need something of a continuous feedback loop to ensure the best result is obtained in the least amount of time, I suspect.  Everybody contributes to that goal and "owns it" when it happens.  Empowered and engaged.  

 

A BOD member, though, I would hope would have a good working knowledge about that which they might be deciding something about.  If not, let the "learning curve" happen, with great mentors rather than casual observations.  ANY research would have to be put through a "perceptual filter" to see where those being interviewed "head is at" on the particular deal.  Then position that against other research.  Typically, though, it can take a while to find the great mentors in a sea of otherwise.  Just as it can take a while to be able to position one side of the issue against the other side of the same issue, to determine what might be best individually, or IF something might work better in a "blended" result>  Be that as it may.

 

Similarly, in making decisions and determinations, I would hope that EACH BOD member could see both sides of the subject they are going to make a decision on.  Not just the side they might favor.  PLUS the dynamics of the result of their decision upon those involved and the total membership.  That can be where the "Ahhh Haaaa" moments happen, by observation, on either side of the aisle.

 

In one of Ross Perot's books, he noted that in the earlier days of EDS, they had their BOD meetings around his kitchen table.  They talked about matters, reached a consensus, and then acted upon it.  Obviously with fewer than 9 people involved, but still a consensus that all could get behind and make work as good as it could work.  EACH person had a "buy-in" to make it work well, as a result.  Unfortunately, not all decisions seem to work this way.

 

In the case of the mountain bikes, many citizens might desire to use a mountain bike to explore trails and other areas in the parks.  Unfortunately, it's a known fact that the knobby-style tires on these conveyances will erode the existing trails, helped along by rain water run-off,  over time, to the extent that the trails become unusable.  Of course, this is not a consideration of the user at the time they use the trails.  But for those that do use the trails "on foot" or desire preservation of the trails, such erosion can be an issue.  Especially when the trails might become unusable due to "use".  A multi-faceted situation that all might not appreciate, only seeing "their side" rather than the "big picture" view of things.  Perhaps the trails can be "closed for renovation" rather than "for good"?

 

Thing is, renovating the trails is known to take time, money, and energized/empowered/engaged individuals to make it happen in a mutually-beneficial manner, for current and future users.  In other words, "people who care", in the long term rather than just the immediate future.  Of course, once you get it reset correctly, it'll take less effort to revisit it every so often to maintain the desired level of durability and enjoyment.

 

Similar scenarios exist in the national lands which have banned off-road vehicles in certain areas of the particular parks.  And that's a whole 'nuther discussion!

 

I'm not sure if BOD candidates might use this tread to advise how they'd work to make the BCA a better group, by their presence and expertise tools?  I'll leave that decision to others.

 

I make these statements as a free-standing member of the BCA.  I do not speak for anyone other than myself.

 

Respectfully,

Willis Bell  20811 

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23 minutes ago, NTX5467 said:

In the case of the mountain bikes, many citizens might desire to use a mountain bike to explore trails and other areas in the parks.  Unfortunately, it's a known fact that the knobby-style tires on these conveyances will erode the existing trails, helped along by rain water run-off,  over time, to the extent that the trails become unusable.  Of course, this is not a consideration of the user at the time they use the trails.  But for those that do use the trails "on foot" or desire preservation of the trails, such erosion can be an issue.  Especially when the trails might become unusable due to "use".  A multi-faceted situation that all might not appreciate, only seeing "their side" rather than the "big picture" view of things.  Perhaps the trails can be "closed for renovation" rather than "for good"?

 

In this case, they left the trails open for equestrian use, so it clearly wasn't a question of trail preservation.  Moreover, significant trail maintenance was performed by the same bikers they summarily excluded, even though -- your misconceptions notwithstanding -- it was not their activities which necessitated the work. No, this was catering to the equestrian lobby to have essentially private trails for their use.  And that's the relevant lesson here: it was the job of the board to serve the many rather than the few, and they got it exactly backwards.

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Thanks for that additional information.  I have heard of damage to trails caused by users.  It's good that the mountain bike people took an interest in keeping them up.  If pooper scoopers and bags are needed for dogs on a leash, what about the horses?  Just an idle thought.

 

Willis Bell  20811

 

 

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7 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

Thanks for that additional information.  I have heard of damage to trails caused by users.  It's good that the mountain bike people took an interest in keeping them up.  If pooper scoopers and bags are needed for dogs on a leash, what about the horses?  Just an idle thought.

 

Willis Bell  20811

 

 

You are correct , Willis. It seems that these days all politics is poop, whether it be at the National level or the BCA. I think we need a lot of pooper scoopers. Now that I have lowered this thread to its absolute bottom , I shall quit while I am ahead or behind 

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1 hour ago, Jack Welch said:

I shall quit while I am ahead or behind 

 

and I hope others will follow your lead Jack.

 

Seriously guys can't we leave all the horse manure shoveling in the past...

 

4239334_orig.jpg

 

This thread started with a friendly reminder from Mr Stoneberg, can we just leave it at that.

 

The time is now to put together your application paragraph if you want to be a candidate for the Board of Directors election in April.

Three seats on the board will be up for election.

Interested members should put together a paragraph (include a photo) about yourself and your interest in serving the membership on the Board and send to our Bugle editor Pete Phillips by Feb. 15th.

The candidates will be featured in the April Bugle.

 

 

 

 

 

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