Make of speedster?

[gwells]

Bravo, Jeff. I think you've nailed it.

Here's what I have found.

 

 

"In 1911, the Knox factory built her a new Giant, which was christened the ‘Giantess’ in her honour. It was used in demonstrations and record runs, and was also raced by Lou Disbrow.” - http://speedqueens.blogspot.com/2014/05/joan-newton-cuneo.html

I see that distinctively large steering wheel (to make for easier steering for her, one would assume), with the T-shaped spokes. Cowl and hood look right. The seat is directly atop the frame. Shifter, handbrake location looks right. Sidelamps, where present, seem to all be the same as in the OP's pic. None of the other photos show that aero oil tank but now the location makes sense because of the chain drive.

And maybe that last initial on the side of the seat is actually a 'C.'



Pretty clearly the same car.

 

Again, same car.

 

Note Knox on top of hood. Sidelights missing. But same cowl, same wheel. It's obvious from this series of photos that the Knox did undergo some modifications, but the basic form and equipment are there.



Best pic I could find of Joan. Hard to be sure, but comparing the OP's pic, the eyebrows and nose look very similar. And in several of these pics, note that Cuneo was obviously very fond of big hats.

I'm convinced. Anyone else?

[Grandpa]

I have some doubts that the unknown car is a Knox.  Note that the Knox has a "bump out" on the right side of the hood for steering column clearance.  This feature does not seem to be present on the unknown car.

 

[Grandpa]

I found this photo of a 1911 Knox that doesn't have the "bump out" on the right side of the hood.  Perhaps the Knox driven by Joan had a modified hood.  From looking at online Knox photos, the "bump out" wasn't for steering column clearance.  Perhaps the "bump out" was made to keep the ignition wiring away from the hot (and perhaps oily) engine.

 

[gwells]

Good eye.

 

I admit that the width of the cowl in the OP's pic looks to be greater than the Knox Giantess images. The cowl width does seem very much like the image in Jeff's pic in his post above my last.

 

It also seems that there's not enough room for that oil tank nor for a stack of four tires behind the fuel tank.

 

But too many of the features seem very close if not exact. Perhaps the car was modified with a longer chassis?

[Grandpa]

As for the "bump out" on the right side of the hood - - -  The photo, below, shows the routing of the ignition wiring in a stock (non-racer) 1911 Knox.  The "bump out" could be to locate (and shield) the wiring from a hot engine.  At 111 mph (Joan Newton's record setting speed), the Knox engine would be really hot.

 

[1912Staver]

Joan Newton Cuneo is a definite possibility. The car does not like the Knox Giantess however. The front chain drive sprocket would be visible in the original photo if the car was the Giantess and it is not.  Also the shifter while similar in construction looks different to me. Shifter gate on the Giantess is tilted forward, LH. gate is different length than RH. Original photo shows "standard" upright shifter mounting , same as general practice on many production cars of the era. And the front surface of the gate section is even with a bolt running along the extreme top, front , quite unlike the Giantess.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited January 5, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Grandpa]

The photo that was posted of the unknown car shows a woman and a young girl. From checking Wikipedia, Joan Newton had two children with her husband Andrew Cuneo. The oldest child was Maddalena (Dolly) Cuneo born in 1901. Thus, the girl shown in the unknown car photo is very likely Dolly at an age of about 12 years old (about 1913). This date is in agreement with the vintage of the hat (circa 1912) on the driver. The photo of Joan (alone, below) appears to be at the wheel of a Knox. 

 

Therefore, the unknown car photo is very likely that of Joan Newton Cuneo, and her daughter Dolly, in a Knox. Dolly looks a lot like her mother.

 

 

[Grandpa]

I surfed the web for more photos of Joan Newton Cuneo. There are a couple of images that I would like to share. The car marked as #15 is a Rainier, circa 1911, with Joan behind the wheel. In my prior post, the car which has spare tires on Joan's right may be a Rainier (rather than a Knox).

 

The other car, with the passengers, is Joan with her family.  This car is likely chain drive, note the shape of the rear fender; perhaps a Knox.

 

 

[Grandpa]

Forum member, 1912Stav, pointed out that there are differences between the unknown car and the Knox speed record racer that driven by Joan Newton Cuneo.  One notable difference is that the unknown car does not have the rear wheel chain drive sprocket visible in the photo.  It turns out that Knox also built six cylinder with a conventional rear axle.  Pictured is a circa 1910 Knox six cylinder race car driven by Fred Belcher.

 

Since the unknown car appears to be in excellent condition when photographed circa 1913 (dated due to the age of the passenger, Dolly Cuneo), I would like to suggest that the unknown car could be a circa 1912 to 1913 Knox six cylinder race car.  Since Joan was attracted to fast cars, a six cylinder Knox would appeal to her.  Unfortunately, women were banned from organized racing about the time the photo was taken of the unknown car.  Thus, there is a possibility that the unknown car is a Knox six cylinder race car that was never raced in organized events.

 

[Spinneyhill]

1 hour ago, Grandpa said:

Pictured is a circa 1910 Knox six cylinder race car driven by Fred Belcher.

 

With a very tense and uncertain, maybe frightened passenger – look at her hanging on!  Fred looks pretty relaxed though.

[gwells]

Allen, 

Because of the hood to cowl alignment difference between your image a couple of posts above, it can't be the same car shown in post 1. But I think we're getting pretty close here.

Thanks for playing along...

[Stude17]

The below link shows a Stoddard-Dayton 1911 Model 11-K. I know it has a door and no external gear lever/brake but I post it to show the alignment of the bonnet to cowl which to me is a good match to that in the OP. I would suggest that  it would not be difficult for the Stoddard Dayton factory to produce  a vehicle perhaps based on this model to the specifications of the unidentified vehicle.   The four  spare tyres suggests (to me) a long endurance type of vehicle such as might be used in a Glidden Tour. 

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fredsredt/4896505982/in/set-72157624609586401/

[Grandpa]

Another thought - - - If the unknown car is a six cylinder Knox, perhaps the factory fitted the car with a Knox truck transmission because of the massive torque of the large engine.  This theory could account for the difference in the design of the transmission shifter gate / hand brake assembly.  Unfortunately, I unable to find any online images of the shifter / hand brake assembly for a circa 1913 six cylinder Knox passenger car or a Knox truck of the same vintage.

 

[cessna195]

I do not think it is a Stoddard Dayton. For one reason is the hand throttle and spark advance in the photo is not Stoddard Dayton. Also the shift quadrant is not Stoddard Dayton. The shift quadrant is not either the 1909/10 type or 1911/1913 Stoddard Dayton quadrant.

See attached photo.

 

John

[keiser31]

The steering wheel spokes are completely different, too.

[AHa]

Probably unlikely but a White had steering wheels like that. I helped pull one out of a barn a few years back, a 1910 or 11 G, and the steering wheel spider was aluminum. This car has the same profile steering wheel and looks aluminum.

Edited January 10, 2019 by AHa (see edit history)

[Leif Holmberg]

Selden maybe?

Leif in Sweden.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Leif Holmberg (see edit history)

[Grandpa]

The shape of the Selden hood, on the side of the upper panel,  does not match the unknown car.  Note that the unknown car evidently has some hood damage (a slightly depressed area near the centerline hinge) due to a aggressive opening of the (aluminum?) hood.