Mark Kikta 740 Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 Well, I decided to drain my oil pan and remove it to clean it out today. When nothing came out of the drain, I knew it would be a mess inside. Removed the bell housing and I was amazed by the size of that flywheel. What a monster! Removed the pan and as expected the sludge was about 3/4” think. The mice in Florida are just as you have all said, made a huge nest in the bell housing/clutch. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Brian_Heil 1,592 Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 (edited) Good for you. I’m always amazed at the number of people who will not do this simple task on a new acquisition. Clean the pick-up screen too. And since it is a common issue, I would pull the oil pump cover and check for deep grooving of the cover by the gears. Resurface it if needed. Look up at the cam lobes too. Check for bad lobes or bad grooves in the lobes due to bad lifter roller. If you really want to know, grab the loosest rod cap and plasti-gauge it. Watch out for those small shims at the cap split line. Edited December 29, 2018 by Brian_Heil (see edit history) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Kikta 740 Posted December 29, 2018 Author Share Posted December 29, 2018 Thanks for the advice Brian. I plan to try to clean the crank and cam as good as I can. Still need to find out why it is still frozen up. I will do as you said with everything. Been soaking cylinders with marvel mystery oil first and atf second. Wonder if lifters are frozen? I haven’t checked them yet. Link to post Share on other sites
Brian_Heil 1,592 Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 I must have missed that you are working on a frozen engine. Apologies. Pack your patience Soak, soak and soak some more Did I mention you should soak? Ha. Use whatever your favorite brew is. I won’t get in that discussion either. Most common is the piston to bore. Second is valves in the cages so pop pushrods out of rockers to save bending a push rod. I’ve heard of starter generators locking up, I assume because they are external and can get moisture in there. Same thing with lifters, I’ve heard of it but in an extreme case with other things frozen first/also. Work on the bores first and pop the pushrods. Does the clutch release? The multi disc Buick clutch likes to lock up too with corrosion. Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Kikta 740 Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 Brian, rocker arms are removed and free valves are free water pump pump is not frozen have not been able to remove the pin in the shaft between the water pump and starter however Link to post Share on other sites
Morgan Wright 1,050 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Another thing that can freeze is the water pump. Real easy to check, just remove the two hoses, and remove the one bolt on the bottom of the pump, should be 9/16. If the pump is not frozen you can now move the pump around the shaft. You don't have to remove the shaft or the taper pins or anything else. Just one bolt and 2 hoses. Well, for 1918 anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Kikta 740 Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 Morgan, Thats exactly what I did. Removed hoses and 2 mounting bolts so I could rotate water pump housing. Now I need to isolate the starter/gen. Link to post Share on other sites
Morgan Wright 1,050 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 10 hours ago, Mark Kikta said: Morgan, Thats exactly what I did. Removed hoses and 2 mounting bolts so I could rotate water pump housing. Now I need to isolate the starter/gen. Just turn on the ignition and see if the motor spins. It doesn't engage the flywheel by itself in these cars. Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Kikta 740 Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 Well I cleaned out my pan today and found two pinholes in it. Also cleaned the outside. Looks much better 5 Link to post Share on other sites
HarryLime 126 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Good for you ! I have never regretted taking down an oil pan with unknown history. You don't know what you'll find. Always worth the solvent, paint, gaskets, and new oil. Too many lazy people drive old cars. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Brian_Heil 1,592 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Forgive me for mentioning it, but fill the six troughs before reinstalling the pan. You can add the remaining 6 qts once the pan is in place to help make it lighter when lifting it and not have a tidal wave of oil sloshing around. Where were the pin holes? Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Kikta 740 Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 23hack, where in Western Pa do you live? All of my family was from Western, Pa. Uniontown, Connellsville area. Brian, Pinholes were just in front of the rear baffle. May call you today, Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Engle 207 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Remove and clean the oil distribution tube. With that much gunk, the tube is probably half full of gunk also. Bob Engle 1 Link to post Share on other sites
dibarlaw 2,046 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 4 hours ago, Mark Kikta said: 23hack, where in Western Pa do you live? All of my family was from Western, Pa. Uniontown, Connellsville area. Brian, Pinholes were just in front of the rear baffle. May call you today, Mark: Western PA was my stomping grounds for my first 29 years. I had relatives in Uniontown. I was originally from Monongahela. Now for the last 34 years in Chambersburg. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Bourque 43 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Cam can rust in its bearings. Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Morgan Wright 1,050 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 The flywheel is not as massive as it looks from the bottom. The ring gear is wide, sure, but the flywheel itself is not that thick, it's sort of hollow in the back except for 3 big bolts to hold the clutch on. Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Kikta 740 Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 I saw that today. That ring gear and teeth are sure larger than I have ever seen Link to post Share on other sites
unimogjohn 199 Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Mark, I hate to say it, but mine was stuck for almost three years. In the end it was just a slight bit of rust between the piston rings and the bores. The previous owner had left the spark plugs out during storage and his container had a lot of moisture in it. Every day I would squirt in more aft/acetone into the cylinders and press/jump on the hand crank, being careful to hold on to something so I would not fall over in case it let go. Then one day the rust just gave up and the engine as free. It was a very happy day indeed. I really did not care about the time it took as there was always something else to do. I guess the moral of this story is patience and do not harm. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Kikta 740 Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 Thanks John, I’m trying to be patient and squirting also. I may take a couple of caps off to see the condition of the Babbitt bearings. Great pictures. Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Kikta 740 Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 I took one bearing cap off the crank and one off of one rod. Still had the shims on both and they came off easily. I think it’s just the pistons that are stuck. But I lightly tapped on the piston under side and it moved in the cylinder slightly. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
DonMicheletti 698 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Journal and babbit look really good. Plastigage them and see what the clearance is - that will give you some general idea of the general condition of the engine. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
unimogjohn 199 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Wow, those bearings look really dry, even for sitting so long. Getting just a little movement is a good thing. It will allow the ATF to get past the rings easier. a 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Kikta 740 Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 I switched from Marvel Mystery Oil to ATF and acetone yesterday. The bearings look dry because I sprayed them with brake clean to see how they cleaned up. I hope to get some plastigage and see what I get. Does anyone know what the clearances should be? Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Engle 207 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 .001" per inch of journal diameter is the general guideline. Bob Engle 2 Link to post Share on other sites
unimogjohn 199 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 It was recommended to me to use .002. All of them were within that range, and it was newly rebuilt. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Morgan Wright 1,050 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 ATF and acetone don't mix. It makes no sense. No matter how hard you shake them before you pour it, the acetone separates out and floats on the top, and quickly evaporates. So all you have left after 10 minutes is ATF. What's the point of soaking in ATF/acetone mix for a week when the acetone is gone after 10 minutes? Use toluene instead of acetone, it mixes with ATF and is an extremely strong solvent of hydrocarbon resins, almost as good as acetone (nothing is as good as acetone). Better yet, just use PB blaster. I don't know what's in it, but it's incredible. It even smells good. Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Kikta 740 Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 Ok thanks Morgan, So far I have tried some Marvel Mystery oil first (which actually leaked by every piston), PB Blaster next which leaked by all the pistons also, straight ATF which has not leaked by any piston and yesterday ATF and Acetone which I have not checked on yet. Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Kikta 740 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 Well I used the plastigage tonight and I believe the Rod bearing was .002 and the main bearing was .003. Seems like since the rod bearing was just over 2 inches in diameter and the main was larger at 2.5 inches and maybe the bearings are not too bad. Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Engle 207 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 You will be fine with those clearances. Be sure to check that the piston wrist pin bolt is tight. These early Buicks are known to have the bolt loosen and the wrist pin score the cylinder wall. Bob Engle 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Kikta 740 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 Do you know what the torque should be? Link to post Share on other sites
Hubert_25-25 1,733 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Mark, Look up Pegasus drilled head bolts. I barely had a lock washer in one of my wrist pins. Wiring these in place is an easy upgrade. You can't get a torque wrench in here. They just need to be tight. As for the main bearing caps, the person that line bored my engine said no more than 100 ft lbs. Hugh 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Kikta 740 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 Thanks Hugh, That looks like a good idea. I still have my safety wire pliers so this would be an easy upgrade. Do you remember what size you ordered? I haven't taken any of those off. Link to post Share on other sites
Hubert_25-25 1,733 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Mark, item # AN5H-12A 5/16-24 x .813 Grip airframe bolt, 1.34UHL, Drilled head. I also used new grade 8 lock washers. I do not reuse any of these old lock washers. They are pretty inferior. Hugh 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Larry Schramm 3,386 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Hubert_25-25 said: Mark, Look up Pegasus drilled head bolts. I barely had a lock washer in one of my wrist pins. Wiring these in place is an easy upgrade. You can't get a torque wrench in here. They just need to be tight. As for the main bearing caps, the person that line bored my engine said no more than 100 ft lbs. Hugh I like that idea. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Kikta 740 Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 Took the oil piping off today and cleaned it. Also took the oil pump off and cleaned it. Number of screws holding the filter on were broken or rusted off. Also screen on the bottom side is in bad shape. Any ideas where I might find more of this screen material? oil pump looks Ok I think too Link to post Share on other sites
Terry Wiegand 1,998 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Mark, From what I can see in this last photo, the oil pump bottom plate looks to be in pretty good shape. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Kikta 740 Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 Yes You can see marks in it but no ridges can be felt. Link to post Share on other sites
Larry Schramm 3,386 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 You might try a good local hardware store for the brass screen. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Brian_Heil 1,592 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 McMaster Carr for screen. Pump cover looks great. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
DonMicheletti 698 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 The cover looks great, however, you should platigage the space between the cover and the gears to find the actual clearance and if necessary, reduce it to spec. However at the very low oil pressure, i'd expect it to be fine - but it pays to know. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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