Tupelo Museum Closing, Selling Off Cars

[edinmass]

11 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

This White floats my boat too !

 

There is a lot of interesting cars in that museum.........and all I see when looking at the photos is the endless hours of sorting a museum car from a static display to an actual road car. Guess it’s just too many years of turning wrenches that alters my vision.

[John_Mereness]

1 minute ago, edinmass said:

 

There is a lot of interesting cars in that museum.........and all I see when looking at the photos is the endless hours of sorting a museum car from a static display to an actual road car. Guess it’s just too many years of turning wrenches that alters my vision.

Maybe just a phase - I have recently walked by a few things that I normally would have been interested in via same reasons as you state (The 39 LaSalle was near herculean restoration and the RR just suffered from multiple elderly owners over the years and off the road for basically most of its life) - last year and early this year were pretty LOOOOOOG. 

[alsancle]

8 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

Maybe just a phase - I have recently walked by a few things that I normally would have been interested in via same reasons as you state (The 39 LaSalle was near herculean restoration and the RR just suffered from multiple elderly owners over the years and off the road for basically most of its life) - last year and early this year were pretty LOOOOOOG. 

 

Everybody runs out of time and energy eventually.   Most of the guys on this site have a bias towards running cars in to the ground (see Ed as example 1).  But a cool project car sitting in the corner can create its own joy and while also being the cheapest car to own.

[alsancle]

8 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

A good Graham to go through a phase with - like the rarest of the rare of them. 

 

I have a friend who is a well healed collector (lots of cars) who can buy whatever he wants.  He owns both Cords and Hollywoods and prefers the Graham styling and the simple mechanics.   We have had both too and I won't jump in to that battle.

[edinmass]

In a choice of Cord V.S. Graham I think I have to go with the Cord. Both neat and interesting cars. 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

If the Graham were not constantly compared to the Cord, and the playing field were other contemporaeies of the era its a knock out.  I liken it more to the Lincoln Continental.  Parked next to another car of the era its lower, sportier yet not too different style wise (like the air flows) to turn some off.

 

Looking forward to seeing AJ car done at some point.

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

In a choice of Cord V.S. Graham I think I have to go with the Cord. Both neat and interesting cars. 

 

The Cord will cruise at 60 mph stock idling, even in unblown configuration.  At 60 the graham feels like the space ship enterprise when Scotty is calling to the bridge yelling "She can't hold on much longer Captain!".

 

But you can replace the stock 4:something gears in the Graham with 3:60s or the like (Dana 41) off the shelf new.  But you have to reinforce the front fenders because they want to blow off the car.

[alsancle]

28 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Looking forward to seeing AJ car done at some point.

 

Me too.

[John_Mereness]

The Cord discussions come up all the time when we have an Auburn out.

 

Sort of goes like this:

Potential New Owner: I want to get a Cord

Dad:  Are you an Engineer ?

Potential New Owner: No

Dad:  Are you Handy ?

Potential New Owner:  No

Dad:  Do you have a lot of disposable income ?

Potential New Owner: No

Dad:  Then you should not have one as it will never do what you want it to.

 

On the flip side of the coin there are a few Auburn owners out there that bought cars as they see Dad's or mine all over the place and I made a few comments like it is a really easy car to work on (not realizing what my definition of easy is compared to ... and not realizing how many hours I spend on it in the garage so it sails out the garage door with few issues - aka they pretty much bought themselves a boat anchor to hold down their garage floor).

 

Sidenote:  There are also a good two dozen or so people I have put into Auburns (after a lot of discussion) and they are delighted !

 

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[alsancle]

You can dial a Cord in to the point where you think it is the best prewar American car on the road (especially the supercharged cars).  Sadly 95% of them are not dialed in.

 

[trimacar]

3 hours ago, alsancle said:

You can dial a Cord in to the point where you think it is the best prewar American car on the road (especially the supercharged cars).  Sadly 95% of them are not dialed in.

 

Amen to that.  I have driven a properly restored Cord, after I put top on and interior in.  It was ny far the best running and driving late '30's car I've ever driven.  Mechanically, it was done by a gentleman in Florida who is well known in the Cord community.

 

On a Cord, "good enough", isn't. Restoration must be excellent on every piece and part, and the whole will be a fabulous driver.

[John_Mereness]

4 hours ago, alsancle said:

You can dial a Cord in to the point where you think it is the best prewar American car on the road (especially the supercharged cars).  Sadly 95% of them are not dialed in.

 

Yes you can dial a Cord in and word on the street is that it will rival all other 30's cars, as well as anything made pre 1953. 

[edinmass]

1 minute ago, John_Mereness said:

Yes you can dial a Cord in and word on the street is that it will rival all other 30's cars, as well as anything made pre 1953. 

 

 

Dialed in and tricked out they are great cars.....another platform that can be challenging for most owners. Rival all other cars of the 30’s?, I would comment not even close. The people who own them are mostly an enthusiastic group and lots of fun to hang and drive around with. Fit, finish, and build quaility on the car suffered, as did reliability early on. I’m not dumping on them, I like them and have one on my list to own before I die...........but there are lots of great cars out there, all diffrent but special in their own speciality. The platform wouldn’t even make it into my top ten list, and probably not my top 20 either. 

[alsancle]

https://www.automaven.com/FAQs/faqs.html#q11 Q. The supercharged Cord held some stock car speed records at over 100 mph. I understand that this engine was rated at 170hp. Seems like it would have taken a lot more than that to propel a 4000+ pound car to that speed. Were those Cords really stock? A. Those records were set by a supercharged Beverly sedan in September 1937 at the Bonneville Salt Flats. The were clocked by the Contest Board of AAA, which also meticulously inspected and certified the cars as stock. Among other records this Cord did the flying mile at 107.66mph, and 24 hours at an average of 101.22mph. It's the advertised horsepower rating that causes the misunderstanding. The first couple of test supercharged engines showed 175bhp on Lycoming's dynamometer. Cam grind and timing were then tweaked a bit, and Lycoming charts show that production engines pulled 186-195bhp. (For some reason, Auburn always used the 170hp figure in ads.) The great Augie Duesenberg headed the Cord racing crew. It's not unreasonable to expect that a stock engine, carefully 'blueprinted' by Augie, could produce well over 200hp.

[alsancle]

Eddy,  you know I love the Pierce 12, which is sturdy enough to power a  fire truck.   But you need to drive a blown Cord that is dialed in if you want to go fast.

[edinmass]

 Would like to make a smart assed comment, but don’t want to offend anyone..........remember the 112 mph over 24 hours was an average speed. For several hours they averaged over 120 mph........no one came close for years, and when they did it was a factory special, not a stock car. (There was a long list of others that tried and failed for years.) Can you name another engine that would hold together for 24 hours back in the day? Although not very pretty and rather industrial in its layout, thr factory stock 185 horse power was a conservative rating. Our super stock version makes 226 horse power with ease and reliability. There are lots of great platforms from the thirties, all diffrent and unusual, and great fun to collect. Im quite sure the 810/812 guys like their toys as much as I like mine......and it’s all in good fun. Somehow AJ, I think after another 18 months, you will see things my way. “Dexit et facit” which is Latin for............Insert obnoxious Pierce Arrow owners ditty........😎

 

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

The fast car......some of the records stood for thirty years............this one in 1934 averaged 128 mph for 24 hours making 235 hp. This is the car that made Bonnevill Salt Flats what it is today. Pierce Arrow was the grand daddy of all the fast cars......

 

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[AHa]

Quote

 

I'd like to tap into this wealth of Duesy knowledge/history. My great uncle was a chauffeur for a man named Fownes from Pennsylvania. This man had a house in Pinehurst and wintered there. He was a big golf nut and designed a course in Pennsylvania. He had two Duesenburgs, in one he installed a speedometer in the back seat compartment so he could monitor my uncle's speed. I've always wanted to track down the cars my uncle drove but the Museum has no knowledge of a Fownes owning a Duesenburg. The golf course/club still exists in Pennsylvania and all the family pictures belong to the club but I haven't been successful at getting anyone to do any research. Do any of you guys know of a Duesy owned by a Mr Fownes of Pennsylvania?

 

As for me, I'd take the car just as it is, just to own a Duesy.

[C Carl]

I'm with you there, AHa. Yeah, and even if my friends and I could never get the old thing to run. Just to sit surrounded in it and enjoy the smell of it................ And it is far from the ugliest D'berg. I got to see Father Divine's grotesque "rolling throne" once in 'Vegas in that Duesenberg collection in the 'Palace. Great gathering in that bar room !!

 

And I agree 100% with you, Dave, about the Nash. Matching dog ? No THAT wouldn't be MY thing, but that color could well match the hair on the "girls" I enjoy harmlessly flirting with these days 😍!!    Over the hill and well past my prime,  -  Cadillac Carl 

[edinmass]

Dave.....the Duesenberg in the magazine was the original colors, as ordered by Gary Cooper. 

[1935Packard]

9 hours ago, AHa said:

I'd like to tap into this wealth of Duesy knowledge/history. My great uncle was a chauffeur for a man named Fownes from Pennsylvania. This man had a house in Pinehurst and wintered there. He was a big golf nut and designed a course in Pennsylvania. He had two Duesenburgs, in one he installed a speedometer in the back seat compartment so he could monitor my uncle's speed. I've always wanted to track down the cars my uncle drove but the Museum has no knowledge of a Fownes owning a Duesenburg. The golf course/club still exists in Pennsylvania and all the family pictures belong to the club but I haven't been successful at getting anyone to do any research. Do any of you guys know of a Duesy owned by a Mr Fownes of Pennsylvania?

 

As for me, I'd take the car just as it is, just to own a Duesy.

 

Googling around suggests it was Henry C. Fownes, profiled here: 

http://www.usga.org/articles/2010/05/fownesthe-oakmont-architect-2147486616.html  

 

There's a discussion of Fownes and his Duesenberg in the article excerpted below.  Maybe contact the author of that article and ask for the source of the Duesenberg story about Fownes?  The author might be able to put you in touch with someone who knows about the cars and what happened to them.

https://issuu.com/pinehurstlivingmagazine/docs/may-june_web_pdf_reduced_size

 

Edited December 30, 2018 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[mercer09]

35 Packard,

 

there was a family in PA that owned 2 Dueseys. They chopped the backs off in order to haul pigs on their farm. Wonder if there is any connection? That took place in the 50s I believe...........

[John_Mereness]

21 hours ago, edinmass said:

The fast car......some of the records stood for thirty years............this one in 1934 averaged 128 mph for 24 hours making 235 hp. This is the car that made Bonnevill Salt Flats what it is today. Pierce Arrow was the grand daddy of all the fast cars......

 

 

 

I have only touched a few Pierce Arrows and as nothing too complicated was needed, I really did not have my hands on them like I have had many other cars, though every single person I know who has had or worked on one tells me they are incredibly well built cars and a joy to own/work on.  

 

As to the Cord discussion it is a very different beast than a Pierce Arrow, Cadillac, Packard, or pretty much anything else CCCA of the same time period.  The Cord benefit is that they are decent horsepower matched to being fairly light weight, compact (unless a Custom Beverly), and ...  Like the Auburn, I can walk around with a rear fender in a one hand and yep it is pretty light weight and could be easily debated as to if "cheap", "engineered" , or a combo of each.   Unfortunately, any way about it the Cord is also "gadgetry" (matched to several other issues) and were a challenge to work on as a new car and still is a challenge today.

Edited December 30, 2018 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[trimacar]

I guess my comment on how nicely the Cord drove was miscon-screwed, or I worded it incorrectly.

 

I was not stating that the Cord was the BEST 30's car made.  I was stating that, if you ever get a chance to drive a properly restored one (which is a very small percentage of them in my opinion), you will be amazed at ease of steering and performance, and what a nice ride it gives.

 

No argument they are the odd duck, mechanically.

 

I once was discussing having a well known Cord guy rework my transmission controls.  He asked me if I planned to drive it at all, and I told him yes.  Then, he said, you need to work on it yourself and understand what's going on.  If you have trouble on the road, NOBODY is going to know how to help you but yourself!   Guess the exception would be an ACD tour.

 

To Ed's point, there are better "platforms" in 30's cars,.  But, I still stand by my statement that this particular Cord(not mine!) was a GREAT driving car....my unrestored Cord is a dog to drive, comparatively.....

[1935Packard]

I drove a Cord for the first time this summer.  I think they're one of the most beautiful cars ever built, and I've loved them since I was 10 years old.  But it seemed fitting for their tricky reputation that we had to cut the drive short because the transmission became stuck in reverse when i tried to turn the car around.  Maybe someday, but not that particular car. 

[edinmass]

2 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

I drove a Cord for the first time this summer.  I think they're one of the most beautiful cars ever built, and I've loved them since I was 10 years old.  But it seemed fitting for their tricky reputation that we had to cut the drive short because the transmission became stuck in reverse when i tried to turn the car around.  Maybe someday, but not that particular car. 

 

 

1934- I know someone who can fix it! Better yet, buy one that’s already done and sorted.....where have I heard that before?

[mike6024]

Sounds like getting into a situation where you needed to use reverse was your mistake.

[R Walling]

AH, pink, pink, pink.

 

 Many years ago I pasted a junk shop and there was a pink barbie doll fiberglass Corvette electric car just right for a little girl to drive around her driveway.

 

 I almost bought it for $50.00, BUT, PINK?

 My manley instinct would not let me do it.

 Now you would never guess what they are selling for now!

Edited December 31, 2018 by Roger Walling (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

18 hours ago, mike6024 said:

Sounds like getting into a situation where you needed to use reverse was your mistake.

The World should be a progressive place - always be forward thinking !

[Hans1]

a movie of the Tupelo facility

 

http://www.tvraaca.org/tupeloautomobilemuseumi.htm#

[alsancle]

BTT