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Then and now: where did these prewar cars go?


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Just now, zipdang said:

Film on the 1939 meet: folks driving, testing, gaming, getting dirty, and generally enjoying themselves! Not to mention the period costumes and the well-dressed spectators. Loved it.

 

Can you imagine the people losing their minds at a show today if you asked them to drive it on the tilting device or over the sandbags? It seems that the only contest most owners will agree to these days is "how gently can you touch it with a duster?"

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37 minutes ago, StanleyRegister said:

 

Who would have thought there'd be another photo available, of the same car at the same event?!?  This one was printed in the program for the June 11-18, 1949 Antique Auto Show in Philadelphia.

1949_PhilaAntiqueAutoShow_1911Olds.thumb.jpg.94570fa1fdcfb8974b51de21235ac114.jpg

11-Olds-Autocrat-7-DV-17_SJC_011-800.jpg.f1a5379ac8526058a22282e77d4733ba.jpg

11-Olds-Autocrat-7-DV-17_SJC_07-800.jpg.f38e52f3c5d418cff5f7d21460ffec27.jpg

This could be the Car - RM Auctions had it on display at Concours d'Elegance of America in I believe 2017.  The tool box/luggage had a really cool set of initials on it and I asked if they knew the initials and was told no.   Curiously, when you see the name DuPont and Wilmington DE there usually is more often than not a correlation (also I believe a state that perhaps even into the 80's or ... where the lower the license plate number generally meant you were more or less a pioneer in automobiles there).

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14 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Can you imagine the people losing their minds at a show today if you asked them to drive it on the tilting device or over the sandbags? It seems that the only contest most owners will agree to these days is "how gently can you touch it with a duster?"

I have seen pictures of the tilting/balancing devices in AACA, HCCA, VMCCA or something like that within the past 10 - 15 years - ie. some event still has one. 

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43 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Can you imagine the people losing their minds at a show today if you asked them to drive it on the tilting device or over the sandbags? It seems that the only contest most owners will agree to these days is "how gently can you touch it with a duster?"

Thank god there are still plenty of people out there that tour, drive to events, and ... (aka man over machine).  And it always strikes me as odd when someone wants to treat something of ours like a holy grail and does not understand kids in it, the dog, lunch, luggage, a couple hundred miles of road dirt, and ... My mom's parents were always "cover those seats with plastic and let's get floor mats in there, while  dad's parents were "let's go and who are we saving it for."  Today, that is a little reversed - Mom was annoyed by  X and feels you should use it and if it needs restored again then do that and dad is pretty careful, though still the first one to get a car out of the garage for anyone who looks like they should want to go driving. 

 

The beverages they were balancing at the end while they were driving over logs was interesting - people were wearing white, people holding the tray inside car, and so forth - I had to say if just water that would have been fine, but whatever it was looked RED (and I would guess in 1939 anything red stained). 

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28 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

T"let's go and who are we saving it for." 

 

That's my attitude exactly. All these guys who spend a fortune restoring a car and then refuse to drive it "to preserve the value" so the next guy can have a really nice car for pennies on the dollar. With most cars, you're never getting your money back on the restoration; you may as well enjoy it yourself rather than just handing it all to the next guy for free.

 

Nothing better than buying someone else's 100-point car for 50% of what he spent restoring it, then driving it down to 80 points. 

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Just now, Matt Harwood said:

 

That's my attitude exactly. All these guys who spend a fortune restoring a car and then refuse to drive it "to preserve the value" so the next guy can have a really nice car for pennies on the dollar. With most cars, you're never getting your money back on the restoration; you may as well enjoy it yourself rather than just handing it all to the next guy for free.

 

Nothing better than buying someone else's 100-point car for 50% of what he spent restoring it, then driving it down to 80 points. 

I know of a guy who followed a 1931 Chrysler roadster his whole life, finally got it and did a rotisserie restoration on it. ONLY drives it off and back on the trailer at shows. Never goes out on the road to enjoy it. Shame.

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21 minutes ago, keiser31 said:

I know of a guy who followed a 1931 Chrysler roadster his whole life, finally got it and did a rotisserie restoration on it. ONLY drives it off and back on the trailer at shows. Never goes out on the road to enjoy it. Shame.

A SHAME !

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I always find it odd that people think you have to drive the wheels of a car to "enjoy" it . The above mentioned Chrysler owner may be having a great time rolling the car off the trailer, his car, to do what he wants with it. Were is the fun when a connecting rod pops out the side of the oil pan? 

 

Bob

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2 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

I always find it odd that people think you have to drive the wheels of a car to "enjoy" it . The above mentioned Chrysler owner may be having a great time rolling the car off the trailer, his car, to do what he wants with it. Were is the fun when a connecting rod pops out the side of the oil pan? 

 

Bob

 

I agree with you Bob.  I think there are many ways to enjoy your cars.  Driving them is fun,  but for some guys scrounging parts for a life long project tucked in the corner is giving them joy too.

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Wonderful film of one of the early meets. My father was at that meet driving up from Philadelphia in his 2nd series Packard twin six with George Gerenbeck, George Hughes and Ted Fiala. The 8MM black and white movies that he took are not nearly as nice as the Cam Bradley ones. I can identify a number of the cars and people based on seeing the movie many times and hearing who was in which car. The various events and contests were common at many of the events except spearing the hoops off of the stanchions. I specifically remember being told how someone fell out of the car while attempting this feat. Many great cars and wonderful people, a number of which I can still identify. The race cars are especially wonderful and I wonder who is driving Old 16, perhaps Joe Sessions since I believe he owned it at the time of this meet.

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My hobby is building them. I like the challenge of restoring a car the way it sat on the showroom floor after dealer prep.

When I get done with one I start on another. If I want a great driving experience I hop in the late model Corvette.

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14 hours ago, A. Ballard 35R said:

Wonderful film of one of the early meets. My father was at that meet driving up from Philadelphia in his 2nd series Packard twin six with George Gerenbeck, George Hughes and Ted Fiala. The 8MM black and white movies that he took are not nearly as nice as the Cam Bradley ones. I can identify a number of the cars and people based on seeing the movie many times and hearing who was in which car. The various events and contests were common at many of the events except spearing the hoops off of the stanchions. I specifically remember being told how someone fell out of the car while attempting this feat. Many great cars and wonderful people, a number of which I can still identify. The race cars are especially wonderful and I wonder who is driving Old 16, perhaps Joe Sessions since I believe he owned it at the time of this meet.

It is a fabulous film, and it's interesting to learn what was of interest to viewers today from the posts.  For a one day event, they sure squeezed in a lot of activity.  I enjoyed seeing Frank Gardner, then a teenager, in his Franklin doing an admirable job on the teeter-totter.  Was that a young Austin Clark overseeing that event, standing behind?  Bradley and Waterman furnished a lot of cars that day.

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Bob, the 5 or so Packards and owners at the time and present owners are known. Same is true with the 3 Mercers and probably the various race cars, many of which appeared to belong to George Waterman. The Mercedes people can no doubt tell about the S or SS (?) driven by Charlie Stitch with Ralph DePalma as a passenger. Also, founding VMCCA member and long time AACA member Paul Cadwell in his T. Certainly many VMCCA members could add a lot more.

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The 1911 Stanley model 63 at Raceland was one of many cars entered that day by Cam Bradley.  Subsequent owners included Austin Clark.  We know the car's first owner resided in West Burke, Vermont.  This photo is of a similar car taken during the Chelsea, Vermont Old Home Days parade in 1934, then owned by Max Hayward.  No one seems to know what happened to Hayward's car.  Did it not survive the WW2 scrap drives, or could it possibly be the model 63 that Bradley owned in 1939?

Chelsea.JPG

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So here I sit on day four after spine surgery waiting around and trying to keep active. I noticed the vid from the VMCCA meet above. I though WTH I will give it a look.. I feel that I need to state that I never have really been much interested in pre  WW2 cars and especially Brass era cars.  Just not me. But I have to say that as an elderly male I received an education from that  film. Watching  the activities and seeing how much actual fun everyone seemed to get from driving their cars(in a day when they were cars, not "investments") I though that if I could find a group of people like that I might consider joining that club.  Controlled chaos from the looks, family event down to kids both bored to death and grinning from ear to ear.  Thanks for posting it John. I really enjoyed it.

Edited by plymouthcranbrook (see edit history)
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Many of thr pre war clubs are still like the one in the movie. Many clubs still don’t have judging or Concours displays, HCCA and many others just drive, have fun, and stop at collections along the way. Ed

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On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 9:37 PM, StanleyRegister said:

Here's the Henry Austin Clark Pierce-Arrow wagon on the 1951 Glidden Tour.  It appears to be different from the Al Hood car.  No help in figuring out where either of them is today...

1951-15-04_AntiqueAutomobile_HAC_Pierce.thumb.jpg.afe64d631c92090443d660791dc4d9e8.jpg

 

This Pierce Depot Hack was purchased from Clark and restored with an authentic  four passenger touring car body. It was a frequent participant on New England Gas and Brass tours during the late 1980s/1990s. During this time, it was red and owned by a New England collector.

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John- Thanks so much for posting the VMCCA movies. Wow, I can't stop watching them. So many great cars.

 

I really like the race car "races".

 

That weird, rounded- looking, red race car is the 1909-10 Buick "Bug" race car. It is currently owned by the Sloan Museum in Flint, MI.

 

Obviously Old 16 is at the Henry Ford Museum-I helped get it there!

 

Those big Mercedes/Benz racers were most likely owned by George Waterman at the time of the film, not sure where they are today but they are most likely in one of three collections. The Vanderbilt Renault race car may also have been Waterman's.

 

 

Contrary to what many believe, the use of brass era cars is alive and well today. There are multiple brass car tours all over the country and they are extremely well populated. Some of the large tours attract 100+ cars and they drive them 100+ miles a day for a week or longer. People who collect brass car are typically "drivers" and would rather use their cars instead of displaying them at a show. There is nothing more fun than touring with a brass car.

 

Thanks again for sharing the films.

 

PS- I think this is my favorite thread ever. Thanks to everyone who has contributed.

Edited by motoringicons (see edit history)
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Hello everyone does anyone know of a 1935 Buick 60 series cabriolet convertible that came out of West Virginia in the fifties it was originally a black car painted a sky blue,my father bought this car in 1943 from a used car lot,he had the car until 1947 ,my dad said there was a guy from New York that would always try to buy the car,my father said he would come to town and buy certaincars.after awhile my father and him became friends.my father would deliver coal to businesses farms and homes,my father would keep and eye out for certain cars and let him know when he came to town where they where.the Buick was sold in48 I believe,by then my father had gotten married and started a family and lost touch with the guy from New York.somewhere about 1953 we where back visiting relatives I west Virginia and my father found the Buick for sale at a little car lot in front of I believe hillside auto wrecking.my father finally persuaded my mom into letting him by the Buick back but by then it had been sold and they had no info who bought it or where it went.in68 I was visiting West Virginia and my uncle took me to the wrecking yard I believe it was in Morgantown I asked about the car but they just treated me like some stupid kid.any one remember a car  in the area or a story about the car,I know it’s a long shot but I grew up hearing about the Buick constantly.    Dave

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I hope to see some of you folks with your pre war cars at the AACA National Vintage Tour. Coming August 4 - 9 in Kingston Ont. as we have a good many miles of country roads to travel and things to do and see. Now we planed this event for brass cars also to attend as a hub tour to park your cars back in the trailer for the night if you wish. If you look at a map you will see Kingston is less than an Hr. from the boarder and no big hills in this area. 

 Contact me for any info on the tour. Thanks Joe

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18 hours ago, SC38DLS said:

Did you see the Duesenberg J sold for $850,000 and a Cadillac V16 sold for $155,000 At Mecum. I would have thought they both would have gone for more. 

Dave S 

 

 That’s why they were in Mecum....

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1914 Lewis, I believe built in Racine, at a meet decades ago.  Supposedly the car was discovered in Vermont.  This might be the only example that survived, and I assume it's alive and well, somewhere.

1914 Lewis.jpg

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These photos were taken in the very early '40s.  The owner was Sheriff Jesse Z. Feese, of Alma, Nebraska.  The 1909 White on the right side of the group photo is known today  The Stanley Mountain Wagon was initially snagged by James Melton, and in modern times it won a Best In Class at Amelia Island last year.  But the 1910 White in the middle of the group, and in the individual photo, remains a mystery.  Any ideas?

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1910_family.thumb.jpg.c2e4a4ce0fa9e0547290ca2e24e9c9b5.jpg

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The first L 29 Cord, pictured with the same backdrop as the infamous lost L 29 Speedster, was an Al Leamy designed prototype  that didn't make it into production.  However the style was used on Auburns.  Picture is from the files of the late Agnes Leamy.  The second and third are of an L 29 designed by Franklin Hershey.  Same location which has been identified, Connersville?  I'm uncertain.    Back when, he told me that when the car was built a mistake was made and the roof at the front was made too low.   I think it looks pretty cool that way anyway. 
Slim chance either have survived. 

MVC-001S.JPG

MVC-002S.JPG

MVC-003S.JPG

Edited by Dave Henderson (see edit history)
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Franklin Hershey did a handful of cars in that same basic style. On a Model J they called it a Town Limousine. Interesting chrome tire cover which I also have seen on some of his other one off cars. He was still designing cars in thr mid fifties, and the Ford Thunderbird is his best known work.

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On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 4:47 PM, motoringicons said:

Contrary to what many believe, the use of brass era cars is alive and well today. There are multiple brass car tours all over the country and they are extremely well populated. Some of the large tours attract 100+ cars and they drive them 100+ miles a day for a week or longer. People who collect brass car are typically "drivers" and would rather use their cars instead of displaying them at a show. There is nothing more fun than touring with a brass car.

Arguably, the Brighton Run in England is the highest proof of this, despite being held in November every year when its cold and wet.

 

Craig

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Here is Ed Zelinsky in his Stanley 740 sedan in 1965, firing up a cold burner, judging by the reaction of the crowd.  Reported as either a 1922 or 1923, he owned it from at least 1962 to 1983.  My roster only shows a handful of sedans from this period, and I'm not sure which one this is.  Any help with earlier or later owners would be appreciated.

1965-08-22_SFExaminer_Zelinsky_1923.jpg.9589dca69d24a4294d7842d169b3c89d.jpg

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On 12/17/2018 at 3:04 PM, StanleyRegister said:

Many many mystery Stanley pix on file - here are a few.

...

 

 

And, a couple of early ones.  First is bandleader Jack Teagarden, probably in 1939.  He had his beloved Stanley shipped to Texas at that time so he could drive it there while associated with some show.  He put it in storage and managed to forget about it for 10 years, and gave it to the garage owner for storage fees.  So sometime around 1949, a very nice Model 64 became available in Texas.  (Although it looks like the burner is out of it at the moment.)  This image came from a blog that I can no longer locate.

Teagarden_1939maybe.thumb.jpg.fccd29127c18ef697e931b6f69115e02.jpg

 

 

 

In case you need it, here is that blog where this photo came from.  Not sure if somewhere else in this thread someone answered.

 

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-and-history/jack-teagarden-machinist-265464/

 

 

This photo from that blog was priceless--perhaps a little off topic.

tea9.JPG.9ac3b7f17b050c1b59261d0b7feaa7e9.JPG

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