twin6

Then and now: where did these prewar cars go?

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On 1/28/2019 at 12:46 PM, twin6 said:

Here's another silent film courtesy of the AACA library, loaded with interesting vehicles, people and even the flea market from an AACA meet in Gettysburg, 1964.  Great "then and now" fodder.

 

I have the program from that meet, if it will help anyone identify any cars of interest in the film.

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Here are a few of my father's photos of Los Angeles-area shows in the mid-1950s, at two, possibly three, different venues. Unfortunately I have no more specific information as to time or place.  Does anyone know if cars were typically driven to shows in those days, or were some trailered even then?  Road conditions would have been so different. 

car show photos lhp 1.jpg

car show photos larry 1.jpg

car show photos larry 2.jpg

car show photos larry 3.jpg

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AJ or Jonathan will be able to ID the Mercedes and it’s current location.

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 Most cars were driven to meets back then. Trailers were frequently used to haul unwanted closed cars that would be used as parts cars for the ones in your pictures.

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On 2/1/2019 at 4:34 PM, Erska said:

 The 1934 Packard Twelve Convertible Sedan in the photo below.  

SKMBT_22319013115010.jpg

Erska,

 

Sorry, but I'm thinking that a '33 Packard. Reason - The shape of the front fenders.

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9 hours ago, Ozstatman said:

Sorry, but I'm thinking that a '33 Packard. Reason - The shape of the front fenders.

 

Yes, a 1933 model 1005.  I don't think anyone got back to Erska on this one, which is also a Packard, a 1928 six (5-33) touring.

533.jpg

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11 hours ago, Ozstatman said:

Erska,

 

Sorry, but I'm thinking that a '33 Packard. Reason - The shape of the front fenders.

 

Yes, correct, I wasn’t looking close enough!👍

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Well, here's a 1005 convertible sedan that had a light green interior at one time - does that ring a bell?  The listing even shows a VIN.

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1933-PACKARD-1005-V12-SEDAN-CONVERTIBLE-180274

 

Here's a different one, a few years ago -

https://www.news-press.com/story/life/style/grandeur/2015/03/07/piece-of-the-past/23896189/

 

And a third -

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/hf12/auction/lots/r128-1933-packard-twelve-convertible-sedan

 

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23 hours ago, Ozstatman said:

Erska,

 

Sorry, but I'm thinking that a '33 Packard. Reason - The shape of the front fenders.

 

Well, you and edinmass must be right.  I don't have any documentation on the car (my father's in the 1950s), just several pictures, so somewhere along the line someone either mis-spoke or mis-remembered.  At the Pebble Beach Concours last August I did see a 1934 - 1107 Convertible Sedan, to my eye identical to my dad's car (except for color and of course condition).  I just went back to a photo of that car, and can see the front lip of the fenders is clearly lower.  Amazing what the expert eye can see!  Thanks for the information!  

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11 hours ago, StanleyRegister said:

Well, here's a 1005 convertible sedan that had a light green interior at one time - does that ring a bell?  The listing even shows a VIN.

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1933-PACKARD-1005-V12-SEDAN-CONVERTIBLE-180274

 

Here's a different one, a few years ago -

https://www.news-press.com/story/life/style/grandeur/2015/03/07/piece-of-the-past/23896189/

 

And a third -

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/hf12/auction/lots/r128-1933-packard-twelve-convertible-sedan

 

Thanks you StanleyRegister for locating this information.  The 2015 "News Press" article says that four 1933 Packard Twelve 1005 convertible sedans have survived, and you have accounted for three of them.  Based on the information in these articles, I would bet that it is the Barrett-Jackson car that was mostly likely my father's -- because the B-J info says the car was originally sold by Earl C. Anthony, as I understand it the big Packard dealer in Los Angeles (as to the other cars, one was sold in Chicago, the other doesn't say).  It would think it not surprising in that era that the car would still be in the L.A. area twenty years later.  The B-J info doesn't say what the original exterior color was (my father's shows as dark, quite possibly black, in the photos I have), and the restorer went with black (certainly that could have changed).  I don't know what the interior color was, and unfortunately don't have any documentation of the vehicle's serial number.  Again, thanks!

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On 2/2/2019 at 4:46 AM, JonathanSierakowski said:

 

1380 from Famous Old Cars.png

Chassis 1380 Goodell.png

Great photo! You have hit one of my sweet spots with this IF as I have tried to trace the histories of all the extant cars. It was a U.S. car from new and the first time it pops up is with a Bruce Macy of Camarillo CA in 1948. Then it passed to Joe O. Goodell and a series of southern California owners until being sold seven years ago. This picture and maybe one other were published in Bowman's "Famous Old Cars", would love to see the others you have. - Jonathan

 

Jonathan -- Here are more of the photos of the 1928 Isotta Fraschini, Engine No. 1414, Chassis No. 138.  These are from the packet of photos of the car that somehow came into  my father's possession, likely in the early 1950s.  Enjoy!

 

isotta 2.jpg

isotta 3.jpg

isotta 4.jpg

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Erska,

 

Thinking you could try contacting the PAC Roster Keeper for that model Packard. They may or may not be able or willing to assist.

 

PDF Listing of PAC Roster Keepers - Little old but that is what's on  the PAC Website

 

Or contact Bruce Blevins, otherwise known as Mr 33.

Edited by Ozstatman (see edit history)
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A further note on the Isotta photos -- the last three show what appears to be an eight cylinder engine.  But the slope of the radiator seems to be just a little different than the Goodell car.  So possibly these photos are of a different car's engine.  For what it's worth, certain aspects of the photo prints (size, embossing, edges) are different than any of the other prints.  Just thought I would mention this -- before the eagle eyes see these photos!

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The last engine photos are not of a Tipo 8 cylinder car.  Perhaps an earlier one that I'm not familiar with.

 

As far as the Mercedes,  I don't religiously follow the mid 20s "K" cars so not sure about that one. 

 

Jonathan may have a comment on both points as I seem to not have anything of value to add.

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Just came across this 1947 VMCCA program, lots of photos and owner info on many cars that were in the 1938 movie. Bob 

DSCF9843.JPG

DSCF9846.JPG

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I'm not so sure if all will like this...

 

When I was due to fly out of LA at the end of my 2012 trip I went to a local place in Long Beach to have a screen fitted to my pickup, which I was shipping home. In their workshop there was this fine old car:

 


29-1112E2franklinrear.jpg.9a5ab4b34dd62d406789f8c4f0b192f5.jpg

29-1112E5franklinfront.jpg

 

 

An air-cooled Franklin from the late twenties, or maybe 1930. I had never seen one before so it fascinated me. "We're restoring that for a guy," the proprietor of the shop said. "We'll be fitting a 350 and a Mustang front end with Chevy driveline..."

Edited by Ray Bell (see edit history)

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The Franklin sedan is a 1931 series 15 model 153 . this was the largest series 15 in 1931 and had totally different body and fender then the other series 15 cars on offer which were the 151 and 152. the 152 and 152 shared many body parts with the previous year series 14 cars. All bodies in the regular Franklin line were made by Walker Body Co. in Mass.

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On 2/1/2019 at 9:49 AM, twin6 said:

Maybe this 1-36 five passenger touring is closer to what you recall?

204475.jpg

 

Closer, I think. I'm going on 35-year-old memories at this point, but I really remember it being so much lower and sleeker than our frumpy '25 Buick and with wider tires than those shown above. It was past the "spindly" look that so many '20s cars had with those skinny tires. However, I also know it wasn't as sleek-looking as Bob Jensen's 1928 443 phaeton with dual rear spares (now in the late Bill Snyder's collection). It wasn't quite this new, although I've always been madly in love with this red car, too:

 

812NOgflvyL.jpg

 

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but I just recall being so much more impressed with that long, low gray phaeton than almost anything else on those tours.

 

I took this photo at the 2016 Grand Classic in Salem, OH, and I think this is pretty close to how it looked, although this is definitely not the car. I note that the top matches the one above, so perhaps I was mistaken in how "chopped" it looked relative to some of the others. Memory is funny that way...

 

GC7.thumb.jpg.8f35af9894f577d9c78a2ca4f9ee9b02.jpg

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

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Regal Underslungs were a subject earlier in the thread...

 

Here's one which made it to Australia, possibly an English production or maybe Canadian (I seem to recall reading they were made in all three countries):

 

0219alfordregal.thumb.jpg.a216fc48af3755fdd7c15a352f6cfeab.jpg

 

The Alford family of Hughenden, Queensland, purchased this when it was about twelve years old. They used it for a further eight or ten years, this photo being from when they moved to Longreach and one of the sons entertained young ladies with whom he played tennis.

 

Then the transmission (one of those ugly 'built into the back axle' items) got sick of bounding up and down on the rough roads at the end of its torque tube and became unrepairable. Enter Herb Avery, who was looking for something with which he could beat his brother's 30/98 when they went out and raced on the claypans near Longreach. He altered the rear springing so it located the rear axle (see pic) and did away with the torque tube, installing the running gear from an Austin 20...

 

0219regalchassis.thumb.jpg.2e797d11264b9539b4b39aca1f887477.jpg

 

Avery built an alloy body for it...

 

Averyin.jpg.a5a997e6f6defe547648c965a5c33571.jpg

 

Later it was bought by coach operator, Rex Law, who raced it. Soon the old four-cylinder engine was replaced by a six... ...Reglbg6.jpg.6a34b007fad6f0eaacd201756ed4fe83.jpg

 

...then a Cadillac V8 went into it. It became a very potent machine in the motor racing world of Australia during the late forties and very early fifties, actually holding the outright lap record at Lowood circuit for a time. Obviously changes were being made along the way.

 

Where is it now? That's the theme of this thread... well, Law's son recalls it being dismantled (the engine used in it did weekday service in a coach, weekends in the race car!) and the chassis being left under the house. Sad circumstances led to Law being bankrupted and the house being sold in the late fifties.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Closer, I think. I'm going on 35-year-old memories at this point, but I really remember it being so much lower and sleeker than our frumpy '25 Buick and with wider tires than those shown above. It was past the "spindly" look that so many '20s cars had with those skinny tires. However, I also know it wasn't as sleek-looking as Bob Jensen's 1928 443 phaeton with dual rear spares (now in the late Bill Snyder's collection). It wasn't quite this new, although I've always been madly in love with this red car, too:

 

812NOgflvyL.jpg

 

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but I just recall being so much more impressed with that long, low gray phaeton than almost anything else on those tours.

 

I took this photo at the 2016 Grand Classic in Salem, OH, and I think this is pretty close to how it looked, although this is definitely not the car. I note that the top matches the one above, so perhaps I was mistaken in how "chopped" it looked relative to some of the others. Memory is funny that way...

 

GC7.thumb.jpg.8f35af9894f577d9c78a2ca4f9ee9b02.jpg

Matt:

 Hay... remember, I have one of those "frumpy" 1925 Buicks. Hopefully after I am done with it I will be making it less "frumpy"!

Here is another long Gray Packard of the vintage being discussed.

DSCF1242.thumb.JPG.a5049a79501a6726304631d53f699626.JPG

 On display at The Northeast Classic Car Museum in NY.

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My dad's been into antique cars since his teens in the early '50s.  My mom has never been that interested.  In all those years, she admitted to liking one old car - this one.
Packard1928_Yeska.thumb.jpg.a56573caacb70fda911e6126c1daa8cf.jpg

Henry Yeska owned it at the time this photo appeared on the back cover of the Antique Automobile, 1973 #1.  It's one of the most beautiful cars I've ever seen.  Somehow the Packard stylists took the contemporary cues and synthesized something very special.

 

(I don't mean to drag the thread away from old photo detective work - sorry.)

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12 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

Just came across this 1947 VMCCA program, lots of photos and owner info on many cars that were in the 1938 movie. Bob 

DSCF9843.JPG

 

 

Couldn't resist adding this.  A few years later, a bunch of guys thought it would be fun to recreate this Peter Helck painting in real life.

1953-14-3_BH_Helck_setup.thumb.jpg.ad1724ec58ee5e89021b459c4776cec8.jpg

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15 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

I took this photo at the 2016 Grand Classic in Salem, OH, and I think this is pretty close to how it looked, although this is definitely not the car. I note that the top matches the one above, so perhaps I was mistaken in how "chopped" it looked relative to some of the others. Memory is funny that way...

 

GC7.thumb.jpg.8f35af9894f577d9c78a2ca4f9ee9b02.jpg

 

We might not ever nail the exact one you saw, but we'll have fun trying!  This one you saw in Ohio was in one ownership in the Boston area for 50+ years, so I doubt this was on the Michigan tour you mention.  Like the car in the first photo I posted after you described what you saw,  this is a sport model, which was indeed more sleek that the phaeton.  Bodies were made by Pullman, and the eight cylinder sport model was only available in the first and second series (1-36 and 2-36).  To make things more challenging in your quest, Dustproof Grey was a common color scheme on those early 8's.  I have photos of other cars that match your description but with different upholstery.  To keep with the then and now theme, here's a "then" photo of the same car, taken in DC in 1945.

209792 U.jpg

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