Then and now: where did these prewar cars go?

[Ray Bell]

Regal Underslungs were a subject earlier in the thread...

 

Here's one which made it to Australia, possibly an English production or maybe Canadian (I seem to recall reading they were made in all three countries):

 

 

The Alford family of Hughenden, Queensland, purchased this when it was about twelve years old. They used it for a further eight or ten years, this photo being from when they moved to Longreach and one of the sons entertained young ladies with whom he played tennis.

 

Then the transmission (one of those ugly 'built into the back axle' items) got sick of bounding up and down on the rough roads at the end of its torque tube and became unrepairable. Enter Herb Avery, who was looking for something with which he could beat his brother's 30/98 when they went out and raced on the claypans near Longreach. He altered the rear springing so it located the rear axle (see pic) and did away with the torque tube, installing the running gear from an Austin 20...

 

 

Avery built an alloy body for it...

 

 

Later it was bought by coach operator, Rex Law, who raced it. Soon the old four-cylinder engine was replaced by a six... ...

 

...then a Cadillac V8 went into it. It became a very potent machine in the motor racing world of Australia during the late forties and very early fifties, actually holding the outright lap record at Lowood circuit for a time. Obviously changes were being made along the way.

 

Where is it now? That's the theme of this thread... well, Law's son recalls it being dismantled (the engine used in it did weekday service in a coach, weekends in the race car!) and the chassis being left under the house. Sad circumstances led to Law being bankrupted and the house being sold in the late fifties.

 

 

[dibarlaw]

4 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Closer, I think. I'm going on 35-year-old memories at this point, but I really remember it being so much lower and sleeker than our frumpy '25 Buick and with wider tires than those shown above. It was past the "spindly" look that so many '20s cars had with those skinny tires. However, I also know it wasn't as sleek-looking as Bob Jensen's 1928 443 phaeton with dual rear spares (now in the late Bill Snyder's collection). It wasn't quite this new, although I've always been madly in love with this red car, too:

 

 

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but I just recall being so much more impressed with that long, low gray phaeton than almost anything else on those tours.

 

I took this photo at the 2016 Grand Classic in Salem, OH, and I think this is pretty close to how it looked, although this is definitely not the car. I note that the top matches the one above, so perhaps I was mistaken in how "chopped" it looked relative to some of the others. Memory is funny that way...

 

Matt:

 Hay... remember, I have one of those "frumpy" 1925 Buicks. Hopefully after I am done with it I will be making it less "frumpy"!

Here is another long Gray Packard of the vintage being discussed.

 On display at The Northeast Classic Car Museum in NY.

[StanleyRegister]

My dad's been into antique cars since his teens in the early '50s.  My mom has never been that interested.  In all those years, she admitted to liking one old car - this one.

Henry Yeska owned it at the time this photo appeared on the back cover of the Antique Automobile, 1973 #1.  It's one of the most beautiful cars I've ever seen.  Somehow the Packard stylists took the contemporary cues and synthesized something very special.

 

(I don't mean to drag the thread away from old photo detective work - sorry.)

[StanleyRegister]

12 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

Just came across this 1947 VMCCA program, lots of photos and owner info on many cars that were in the 1938 movie. Bob 

 

 

Couldn't resist adding this.  A few years later, a bunch of guys thought it would be fun to recreate this Peter Helck painting in real life.

[twin6]

15 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

I took this photo at the 2016 Grand Classic in Salem, OH, and I think this is pretty close to how it looked, although this is definitely not the car. I note that the top matches the one above, so perhaps I was mistaken in how "chopped" it looked relative to some of the others. Memory is funny that way...

 

 

We might not ever nail the exact one you saw, but we'll have fun trying!  This one you saw in Ohio was in one ownership in the Boston area for 50+ years, so I doubt this was on the Michigan tour you mention.  Like the car in the first photo I posted after you described what you saw,  this is a sport model, which was indeed more sleek that the phaeton.  Bodies were made by Pullman, and the eight cylinder sport model was only available in the first and second series (1-36 and 2-36).  To make things more challenging in your quest, Dustproof Grey was a common color scheme on those early 8's.  I have photos of other cars that match your description but with different upholstery.  To keep with the then and now theme, here's a "then" photo of the same car, taken in DC in 1945.

[twin6]

Erska, I think this car from the group of photos you posted a few days ago, was Art Austria's 1913 Simplex, a car that has a slightly different look now and has been shown at Pebble Beach in the not too distant past. I'm not doing well identifying any other from the group, but maybe someone will chime in.

[Erska]

11 hours ago, twin6 said:

Erska, I think this car from the group of photos you posted a few days ago, was Art Austria's 1913 Simplex, a car that has a slightly different look now and has been shown at Pebble Beach in the not too distant past. I'm not doing well identifying any other from the group, but maybe someone will chime in.

 

I'm glad to know some of these cars photographed in the '50s still exist and are known in AACA.  If any of their current owners would like a high resolution scan of their car's old photo, please send me a private message through the forum system.

[8E45E]

9 hours ago, Erska said:

 

If any of their current owners would like a high resolution scan of their car's old photo, please send me a private message through the forum system.

Thank you for offering this service.  I know many who like to have a detailed historical record of their vehicle, including old show photographs of it from earlier years.

 

Craig

[twin6]

On 2/5/2019 at 10:58 PM, StanleyRegister said:

 

Couldn't resist adding this.  A few years later, a bunch of guys thought it would be fun to recreate this Peter Helck painting in real life.

 

Clarence Huggins, with his back to the camera, was a larger than life character who had a Pope Hartford for at least 20 years, that he toured in frequently.  Not sure where exactly this ended up, but I believe it's on the west coast somewhere.  Clarence was a very dedicated member of the Profile Automobile League in NH (the PAL's),  never camera shy, and always up for a gag.  Here's an example from the club's magazine "Splash Pan."

[dibarlaw]

Craig:

 Thank you for the comment. I know of many who would like the same. I also know of those who could care less about documenting of their cars past. Several of our local upholstery shops in Chambersburg did work on many antiques in the 1950s and 60s. They kept "Brag Books" to show potential customers what their skill were on other cars. Before, during and after photos. I had seen some of them in the 1980s. The place that did the top on my 1925 Master touring car had one of those books. They threw it away when the owner retired.

 The family I bought my 1925 Master from did not have one photo of the car before, during or after it was "fixed up". Also, they had the car for over 50 years!  Many times the only photo documentation we have of cars are those taken by spectators at meets and car shows.

 I would love to have a few photos of my 1925s in their former lives. When I first bought my 1925 Standard in 2011, I made a plea on the forum if anyone knew any back round on my car. I posted all the photos of the car I had in hopes of someone recognizing it.

 I was told by the former owner that he bought it from either Wisconsin or Minnesota. (I would have remembered) That would have been around 2000 or 2001. So far no leads.

 

[Chris Paulsen]

I'm sure this tow vehicle is well known today. In 1964 when this photo was taken, B.C. Hartline owned this Duesenberg. What does it look like today? 

[alsancle]

J-528?

 

[StanleyRegister]

This article says it was painted the light color in the early '50s.  Photos are unfortunately distorted (at least for me).

 

https://www.oldcarsweekly.com/features/supercharged-duesenberg-model-sj

 

[twin6]

Some photos I believe were taken in the 1950's, for the Buick enthusiasts.  Does anyone know who owned these?

[Erska]

Here is another classic Packard from mid-1950s Los Angeles.  The story I was told is that my father owned this dual-cowl phaeton in original condition, then sold it to someone who restored it.  The photos are after the restoration.  Is it a 1932 model?  An eight?  Still around?  

[John_Mereness]

22 hours ago, alsancle said:

J-528?

 

No - car should look the same unless it has been restored in the last year 

[John_Mereness]

7 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

No - car should look the same unless it has been restored in the last year 

Unless it was restored in the past year, this should be the late B.C. Hartline, Late Jim Schneck  car, and I do not know when it was done, but only J Duesnebery I have seen where everything aluminum under hood is engine turned. 

(engine J-525, chassis 2555)  supercharged Duesenberg Model SJ  Brunn Riviera Convertible Torpedo Sedan

Edited February 8, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[twin6]

On 2/8/2019 at 4:55 PM, Erska said:

Here is another classic Packard from mid-1950s Los Angeles.  The story I was told is that my father owned this dual-cowl phaeton in original condition, then sold it to someone who restored it.  The photos are after the restoration.  Is it a 1932 model?  An eight?  Still around? 

 

Yes, a 1932 model 903 DeLuxe Eight sport phaeton.  I'm sure it's still around, but do not know where it is today.  Thanks for sharing some great photos!

[edinmass]

On 2/8/2019 at 5:57 PM, John_Mereness said:

Unless it was restored in the past year, this should be the late B.C. Hartline, Late Jim Schneck  car, and I do not know when it was done, but only J Duesnebery I have seen where everything aluminum under hood is engine turned. 

(engine J-525, chassis 2555)  supercharged Duesenberg Model SJ  Brunn Riviera Convertible Torpedo Sedan

 

John, you are correct. The car when I saw it last year was what we would call a well maintained original, has the look of a ten year old well used car. I wouldn’t change a thing! Great car and a great family. I believe Jim’s son is the current caretaker.  

 

Interestingly, we were discussing this car yesterday at dinner and this morning at breakfast. 

Edited February 11, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Ed, Is there something special about the top on the Hartman Duesenberg? It looks like is folds up nicely and is totally hidden. Does the Gould car carry the same body? Bob 

Edited February 11, 2019 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[8E45E]

5 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Ed, Is there something special about the top on this Duesenberg? It looks like is folds up nicely and is totally hidden. Bob 

If its the Duesenberg I'm thinking of, the rear has a hinged cast aluminum clamshell which neatly conceals the top when it is lowered.

 

Craig

[K8096]

Yes, the whole rear of the body tilts back and the top folds under it.   Brunn called it a Riviera phaeton.   Three were built I believe, and all three exist.  The tan car pictured above was originally black, and was a staple at early Northern & Central Ohio AACA, VMCCA, and CCCA events in the 1950's & 60's.   BC Hartline painted it tan in the 50's sometime, and he used to drive the hell out of it too.   It was not a trailer queen.   It still had the original brown leather interior in it last time I saw it.       

[edinmass]

The disappearing top Duesenbergs are fantastic cars. Several body companies made them, Murphy was the most famous with something like 40 in total. 

[John_Mereness]

On 2/11/2019 at 11:11 AM, edinmass said:

 

John, you are correct. The car when I saw it last year was what we would call a well maintained original, has the look of a ten year old well used car. I wouldn’t change a thing! Great car and a great family. I believe Jim’s son is the current caretaker.  

 

Interestingly, we were discussing this car yesterday at dinner and this morning at breakfast. 

Good to hear it is the same as just not anybody should ever restore it (takes a "right" person).  First Duesenberg that I ever really "experienced" on the road (as in Jim drove it like a real car) - we did probably 85mph for 15 or so blocks though Auburn, IN one midnight. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Steam cars from the James Melton Collection when it was in Florida. 1920's Stanley, White Stanley with Model a Ford wire wheels and a Toledo. Where are they all now? 

 

Bob 

Edited February 13, 2019 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[StanleyRegister]

This photo was taken on Feb. 20, 1949, at an old car gathering in Florida.  It's a beautiful print - if you could send me a good scan, I'd really appreciate it.  Best I have is this grainy shot, taken at almost exactly the same time.

The two Stanleys, at least, are still in the same place.  The condensing car has been in the family since new.  The non-condenser has the curious "upgrade" of Ford wire wheels.

Melton happened to attend this meet, as well as Bill Spear.  Both are shown here in the 10hp car.

 

The White was also bought new by the family, from the local White agent, who was Melton's uncle.  (!)

[1937hd45]

Thank you! I sent you a PM, as soon as I have your address the original; photo will be on its way. Do you have any info on the Toledo Steamer? Bob 

[twin6]

A 3rd series Eight Packard touring at the Old Car Festival in the 1960's.  There are fewer than 10 known to exist, none with this paint scheme.  Any ideas on whose this was back then, or now?

[StanleyRegister]

Looks like it was former AACA Director and President Len Rhinehart.  The 1968 AACA register shows him owning a 1927 343 7p touring, fully restored.  He restored it in 1955-56, and apparently drove the car a lot - 870 miles to the 1958 Lake Forest meet, and a 2,600 mile round trip through Greensboro, NC and Daytona in 1965.  Certainly could have driven it to Dearborn.  (Don't know what happened to the sidemount.)

Edited February 15, 2019 by StanleyRegister
added sidemount sentence (see edit history)

[twin6]

The sidemount and bolt patterns on the wheels don't bode well for this to be a match, plus the cowl lights and band that were present in the 1950's and today on the Rhinehart car are absent in the 1960's era photo.  I think we're looking at two different cars. Thanks for the old pix from the 50's!

[StanleyRegister]

I see a couple of other little telltale differences, too, now that I look again.  Darn...  Did discover that the Rhinehart car was bought around 1967, by Vernon Unger of Winchester, VA.  He advertised it for sale in 1992, still looking very much like the 1956 photo, above.

[StanleyRegister]

This 1967 photo shows H. D. Thompson, left, and Bill Carmichael, center, involved with a 1923 Stanley that they owned.  (A 7-passenger touring, presumably a Model 740B.)  They lived in Jackson, TN, and the car was scheduled to participate in the Mid-America Old Time Auto Association meet there on June 15-18, hosted by the West Tennessee Antique Car Club.  The car was said to have been found in Florida, where it had "been left by a retired gentleman from the east."  The car sold out of Mrs. H D Thompson's estate in 1983.

 

Any ideas who may have had it before & after Thompson?

 

 

[John_Mereness]

at

I referenced this Packard photo today on the ID page and  thought this page is a good place to "park" it.  Notice the car on the right with the American flag top boot, the white painted Dual Cowl and sidemounted on the far left (and in front of the Dual Cowl is a rear mounted trunk car with a rear spare, plus to the left of that is another sidemounted touring with stylish trunk on rear.   A surprising number of light painted cars and a surprising amount of rear spare tire cars.  All cars appear to be licensed and plenty have owner's "touches" to them.  I am not sure what the event would be, though it though it had to be in a very large city.

[gossp]

4 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

at

I referenced this Packard photo today on the ID page and  thought this page is a good place to "park" it.  Notice the car on the right with the American flag top boot, the white painted Dual Cowl and sidemounted on the far left (and in front of the Dual Cowl is a rear mounted trunk car with a rear spare, plus to the left of that is another sidemounted touring with stylish trunk on rear.   A surprising number of light painted cars and a surprising amount of rear spare tire cars.  All cars appear to be licensed and plenty have owner's "touches" to them.  I am not sure what the event would be, though it though it had to be in a very large city.

Look at how tight some of those top boot covers are!  There is no way a top is actually inside them. 

[JD in KC]

The city is Los Angeles and the event is a parade honoring Charles A. Lindbergh.  Date was September 1927.

[John_Mereness]

On 2/24/2019 at 10:59 PM, gossp said:

Look at how tight some of those top boot covers are!  There is no way a top is actually inside them. 

The problem tends to be that when the cars are restored the upholsterers want a much thicker pad in the top (helps with "look" of top) and that is why you are use to seeing giant piles of fabric on the back of restored cars today.

[automuseum]

 

The photo shows what is purported to be an 1899 Serial No. 1 Locomobile (Stanley). The photo was taken in 1948 at the home of Edwin Battison in Windsor, Vermont. 

 

Yes, the car still exists as does an early Stanley that climbed Mount Washington on August 31, 1949,  in 4 hours 40 minutes.

 

Battison and his automobiles make for a fascinating read...  https://www.battisonmuseum.org/copy-of-cast-of-character-part-1---mentoring

 

 

I do hope his collection is saved. (Ed Battison was the founder of the American Precision Museum in Windsor, VT.,  where I served as executive director served as the museum's first executive director after Battison's tenure ended.) 

[1937hd45]

31 minutes ago, automuseum said:

 

The photo shows what is purported to be an 1899 Serial No. 1 Locomobile (Stanley). The photo was taken in 1948 at the home of Edwin Battison in Windsor, Vermont. 

 

Yes, the car still exists as does an early Stanley that climbed Mount Washington on August 31, 1949,  in 4 hours 40 minutes.

 

Battison and his automobiles make for a fascinating read...  https://www.battisonmuseum.org/copy-of-cast-of-character-part-1---mentoring

 

 

I do hope his collection is saved. (Ed Battison was the founder of the American Precision Museum in Windsor, VT.,  where I served as executive director served as the museum's first executive director after Battison's tenure ended.) 

 

 

The Loco was features on "American Pickers" along with the Battison Collection withint he last month or so. 

Edited February 26, 2019 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[twin6]

Here are Park C. Skipper (L) and Jack Skelding (R) with Skipper's 1918 Packard and a 1931 (?) Lincoln, in Clearwater, FL in 1954.  I'd love to know where the Packard went.

[edinmass]

The Packard isn’t listed on the Online Packards list by his name, but I think it has to be one of them there..........it’s too rare of a car for it not to be known from time to time in the clubs.