Ford Bronco Illinois company has rights from Ford

[Mark Gregory]

Not Mine  Interesting what the public has a demand for .

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6490601/Illinois-company-selling-classic-Ford-Bronco.html

[Restorer32]

"Will resemble the original..."

[Matt Harwood]

16 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

"Will resemble the original..."

 

So is that good or bad? Make a correct copy and everyone says, "It's just a fake, a copy, worthless." Make a vehicle that is simply a tribute to the original or has a resemblance and everyone says, "Just a cheap knock-off, nothing like the original, the original was better, I would only buy one if it looked exactly like the original, this is worthless."

 

It seems to be a lose-lose no matter what they do. 

 

They've licensed the rights to build first-gen Broncos from Ford. They're buying new Dynacorn Chinese bodies and are building vehicles in accordance with the new law that allows niche manufacturers who are duplicating old vehicles to actually build complete turn-key vehicles instead of just selling kits. It's exciting for some because they cut out the middle man who finishes the vehicle for the end customer. Now whether they have over-estimated demand for old Broncos is something else entirely--I suspect they have and their business plan probably shows that they believe they can sell 250 or 300 of these a year, when reality will probably be 10-20% that figure. We have been selling every vintage Bronco we can get our hands on for good money, but will that continue? I strongly doubt it, although I don't think they've peaked yet--we'll see how they look after the January auctions. Nevertheless, the market is going to saturate pretty quickly no matter what these guys do. It always happens when there's a big run-up on prices of a certain flavor-of-the-month; all the examples of that thing go into restoration shops in a big hurry to cash in before the ride is over, which is precisely what drives prices down after the initial run-up.

 

I suspect that these guys cranking out "new" ones will find that originals are still preferable to buyers and that the 2-3x market price that they are charging for a "brand new" one is not sustainable after the "gotta have it" guys are satisfied. We've seen it happen a dozen times before (Eleanor Mustangs, Shelby Cobra replicas, "new" 1957 Chevy convertibles, Legacy Power Wagons, the "new" Delorean, etc.) and I don't know that these guys will be any different. Probably still more profitable to be a parts supplier to the restoration/modification market than to try to sell complete cars, but the license agreement from Ford is probably valuable.

[1912Staver]

A 347 injection stroker ? Is this a replica 1966 Mustang GT or a replica 1966 Bronco?  I agree 100% with Matt, a few cost no object sales but then things will taper off quickly. I always liked the Bronco but bought a Land Rover. And even that went within a year as it was expensive to operate and I had no real day to day need for its off road ability. It was fun off road but the expense was hard to justify ,free time for excursions was limited , and around town it was generally a P.I.T.A.

 

Greg in Canada

[edinmass]

They run 90 to 180 grand............it will be interesting to see if supply exceeds demand.......in the single digits!

[Bhigdog]

Oh yeah. Repro a ho hum "so what" product and charge stupid money for it. Where do i get in line?....NOT!

The reason people cough up big bucks for esoteric stuff is so they can dazzle their friends. I,m guessing few folks will be dazzled with a fake Bronco

..bob.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[John348]

On 12/13/2018 at 5:17 PM, Bhigdog said:

The reason people cough up big bucks for esoteric stuff is so they can dazzle their friends.

 

No Bob...............they do because they can afford to do it

[Bhigdog]

2 hours ago, John348 said:

 

No Bob...............they do because they can afford to do it

 

And wish to display that fact loud and clear.

Or perhaps I mis -judged. Maybe they are shelling out $150 K for it's avant garde styling, it's superior coach work, it's luxurious appointments and cloud like ride. A truly superior marque in every sense of the word............NAH!..................Bob

[CarNucopia]

I think you guys are out of touch with goes on in other parts of the car hobby. These guys have been around for a few years and displayed their Broncos at Barrett Jackson when I was there in 2016. In fact, at BJ, quite often a resto-mod will sell for more then an original car. Not my cup of tea, but there are buyers out there for this stuff.

Contrary to what you may think, there are plenty of wealth car enthusiasts who don't care about the cost and want a classic with the benefits of modernity. Gateway isn't even the first to use this business model. Singer http://singervehicledesign.com/ has been doing it with Porsche 911 for a while and ICON has been doing it with Toyota FJs https://www.icon4x4.com/fj/config . What I think these guys have figured out is new cars lack the personality of older cars. But many buyers want the old car experience without the old car headaches.

[Bhigdog]

33 minutes ago, Buick64C said:

I think you guys are out of touch with goes on in other parts of the car hobby. These guys have been around for a few years and displayed their Broncos at Barrett Jackson when I was there in 2016. In fact, at BJ, quite often a resto-mod will sell for more then an original car. Not my cup of tea, but there are buyers out there for this stuff.

Contrary to what you may think, there are plenty of wealth car enthusiasts who don't care about the cost and want a classic with the benefits of modernity. Gateway isn't even the first to use this business model. Singer http://singervehicledesign.com/ has been doing it with Porsche 911 for a while and ICON has been doing it with Toyota FJs https://www.icon4x4.com/fj/config . What I think these guys have figured out is new cars lack the personality of older cars. But many buyers want the old car experience without the old car headaches.

 

You make some fair and good points. That said, I still have to think ego and one up mans ship plays a measurable part in the equation. Likely more for some than others................Bob

[Modeleh]

These guys might be a day late to the Bronco party.  Ford is going to be unveiling the 2020 Bronco in a month or so.  If they’re priced at 30-40g and are more comfortable with more features people expect now, it’s going to be a tough sell for a reproduction early Bronco at over 100g.   It could also burst the bubble on the current crazy overvalued early Bronco market.  

[Restorer32]

If the new vehicles will only "resemble the original" and will not use original style drive train parts why do they need permission from Ford to build them?  Hard to believe Ford would let them use the "Bronco" name especially since Ford apparently intends to unveil a new "Bronco" in 2019.

[Matt Harwood]

2 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

If the new vehicles will only "resemble the original" and will not use original style drive train parts why do they need permission from Ford to build them?  Hard to believe Ford would let them use the "Bronco" name especially since Ford apparently intends to unveil a new "Bronco" in 2019.

 

Because they will say both "Ford" and "Bronco" on them and will likely be titled as "Ford Broncos." I don't know if they're clever enough or laws are lax enough to let them title them as 1968 Ford Broncos, but that's a possibility that the new law suggests--building them to standards that existed when that particular version of the vehicle was built. That means they don't have to install airbags and emissions systems and do crash testing. I don't know how they'll be titled as each state would be difference. But they do need a Ford licensing agreement to use the name and logos, and possibly even the bodywork. Ferrari has successfully sued replica manufacturers on the basis of copyright infringement just based on the shape of their cars being distinctive. The Bronco is certainly distinctive as well and I think without Ford's blessing, building such a thing would quickly generate a lot of legal hassles. 

 

These are replicas with modern hardware underneath, very much like the Cobra replicas. I think Ford learned its lesson with the Cobras and has decided that protecting their trademarks are worthwhile. 

[CarNucopia]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Because they will say both "Ford" and "Bronco" on them and will likely be titled as "Ford Broncos." I don't know if they're clever enough or laws are lax enough to let them title them as 1968 Ford Broncos, but that's a possibility that the new law suggests--building them to standards that existed when that particular version of the vehicle was built. That means they don't have to install airbags and emissions systems and do crash testing. I don't know how they'll be titled as each state would be difference. But they do need a Ford licensing agreement to use the name and logos, and possibly even the bodywork. Ferrari has successfully sued replica manufacturers on the basis of copyright infringement just based on the shape of their cars being distinctive. The Bronco is certainly distinctive as well and I think without Ford's blessing, building such a thing would quickly generate a lot of legal hassles. 

 

These are replicas with modern hardware underneath, very much like the Cobra replicas. I think Ford learned its lesson with the Cobras and has decided that protecting their trademarks are worthwhile. 

 

I’d guess they use the VIN and year on the vehicle as it was when the project started. They claim they are restoring the trucks with upgrades.

[Matt Harwood]

6 minutes ago, Buick64C said:

 

I’d guess they use the VIN and year on the vehicle as it was when the project started. They claim they are restoring the trucks with upgrades.

 

But if they're using new body shells and modern engines, what VIN is there to start with? How much of the original truck has to exist on the finished product to justify that VIN? Just the tag? I wonder how they're working that out.

 

I sure hope they don't get into the nastiness that the guys building those Eleanor Mustangs for Carroll Shelby did. They were buying new Dynacorn Mustang bodies then finding similar cars in junk yards, cutting out the serial numbers, and welding them into the new bodies. That allowed them to title them as real '67 or '68 Mustangs (this was obviously before this new law). The Feds thought that was fraud and the company doing it went out of business and took a lot of peoples' money with them. Whether this new law allows a replica built to 1968 standards to be titled as a 1968 is where the crux of the issue lies. I've had plenty of cars conjured from nothingness (meaning all new parts) that had VINs and titles that matched what they appeared to be, although I suspect most of those started as little more than a title. Plastic roadsters titled as 1932 Fords, etc. Maybe the new law allows replica builders to assemble the cars to the standards of the year in which they will be titled. I don't know the details and there surely has to be a limit to how many they can build, otherwise Ford would be doing it themselves and selling them as new. Sounds like a kind of gray area if they aren't using original Bronco shells.

 

That said, I have to believe they've worked it out because that's too big an investment and Ford probably wouldn't jump in bed with them if there was a chance of anything going sideways.

[mike6024]

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/d/1966-bronco-roadster-u13/6758493367.html

The proposed 2020 model doesn't look indistinguishable from the 1966. I'd rather a real '66 .

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[JACK M]

35 Large.

Is that tunnel original, I may have never noticed.

[Matt Harwood]

I think the originals are awesome, but in their most basic form, they're really not much more than a somewhat fast tractor. We had this one that was probably the finest in the world, but it was also extremely primitive and 50 MPH was about as fast as I'd ever want to go. 

 

 

Sadly, it looks like the new one is Ford doing just what they did with the T-Bird: watering it down through focus groups. That's the first I've seen of an official Ford-endorsed view of the new Bronco and honestly, with four doors, it looks like the now-defunct Flex station wagon/SUV with big wheel arches and round headlights. I think the overlap of buyers between new and old will be small and the new buyers will probably not even remember the original Bronco. I don't think either one will cannibalize the sales of the other because the people who appreciate the features of one wouldn't have anything to do with the other. Housefraus aren't interested in alfresco motoring these days and the new Bronco isn't going to open a new market segment like the original did. Just another 4-door neo-buff SUV with a nostalgic name. I hope it's cool, but I don't know if automakers can build truly innovative, remarkable, segment-busting stuff in today's climate.

[mike6024]

The 2020 Bronco will come in a 2 door version. Both 2 and 4 door versions. Based on the Ranger chassis, and a 4 door option was needed to make it viable from a marketing perspective.

[Restorer32]

Now if it replicated a '64 Scout I might be interested. Loved my Scout but that thing would not go over 55 mph if you dropped it out of a plane.