Starter Generator clash with the sliding gear -pre 1925

[Hubert_25-25]

Last year of the Starter Generator (SG) Unit, and I am beginning to understand why.  I am trying to install the (SG) unit on the engine after a removal 55 years ago.  The sliding gear moves to the rear when the starter pedal is pressed.  The first gear it engages with is the starter generator gear, and then another 1/8" further movement and it begins to engage the flywheel.   Without the SG unit in place, the engagement of the sliding gear with the flywheel works well.  The problem is that the sliding gear shaft and the SG pinion gear shafts appear to be too close.  There is a shelf that the SG unit rests on until you can get the tapered washers in place and begin fastening it down.  I tried to show in a drawing where the metal is touching and where the locating cones are touching.  There really is no adjustment to alter the centerline for the gears.  As I begin to get close to tightening the centering cones, the shafts are tight against each other and the starter won't turn.  The SG units are stamped "283" which is correct for the 1925 Standard.  I have 2 SG units and they both do the same thing.  I was wondering if anyone else has experienced a problem with these or would know of the best way to adjust this.      

On a positive note, I am developing great biceps from dragging this 60 lb unit in and out of the frame.

Hugh

Edited December 13, 2018 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[raydurr]

Nice lifting handle.

[Hubert_25-25]

So a little progress today.  I took out the upper rear bolt cone bushing.  I raised the rear of the SG unit just a little to keep the gears from becoming so tight.  The front top bolt still has the centering washer so that is tight.  The lower bolt is a regular bolt, so it is now tight.  On the upper rear bolt I used a regular washer.  Since the hole was built for a cone bushing, it is a little oversized.  The flat washer is conforming to the hole some, so it is making a new cup washer that conforms to hole being just a smidge off center.  I am calling this plan A.  

 

After doing this, my other option ( plan  B ) is to put a shim on the rear of the resting block and put the cone washer back in place.  The cone will seat on the bottom of the tapered hole .   

 

It all seems to be working under the Plan A method.  Just wondering if I should switch it to the plan B method or leave it alone and try it.      Hugh

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[dibarlaw]

Hugh:

 Stop, stop, stop..... 

Bingo!!! I see the problem. My pinion gear is 13 teeth 1.265 O.D. Gear face length is .967.

 I checked the 2 Master S/G (D 268) pinions and they are 12 teeth 1.420 O.D. . Somehow you have a Master pinion gear. I guess I have another package to send.

 Larry

[Hubert_25-25]

Larry, 

     You are better than Santa Claus.  Everyone knows that he doesn't have any old Buick parts.  That will make a world of difference and I get to pull the SG unit out again but I will be glad to do it this time.  

 

So I am also looking for a 13 teeth starter pinion gear for my spare SG unit.  If anyone has an extra, it is the same for 1923 & 24 4 cylinder and 1925 Standard.  The early 6 and Master pinion gears will not work, and apparently I have 2 of them if someone is looking.      Hugh

          

[dibarlaw]

It's in the mail. There will be a plastic Peanut Butter jar with a blue lid coming your way. That was how Gregg Lange would send the nitrophyl floats he makes. Works for me.

[Jim Bourque]

Hugh

I will take both of your Master starter gears.

PM me to make arraignment.

thanks

Jim

[Daves1940Buick56S]

6 hours ago, dibarlaw said:

There will be a plastic Peanut Butter jar with a blue lid coming your way.

 

Skippy! I love that stuff.....

 

 

Cheers, Dave

[bradsan]

Hugh

Brilliant handle !

Wow , what a fast solution.

Hugh , how did you end up with two of the correct SG units but 2 wrong pinion gears? Were they correct for the earlier years that the D283 fit?

 

BTW Engine is looking great!

 

Brad

[Hubert_25-25]

Brad, 

I hope to have plenty of good documentation for you when I am done.  

I don't know if you know the history of my 1925 Standard, but the previous owner bought the car in 1963.  It was running at the time, but the guy wanted to restore it.  He pulled the body off the frame.  He had another Buick in his collection (1925 or 27) that was also auctioned off at the same time my car was.  He was mainly into Model A Fords.  Nothing was fixed other than the frame was blasted and painted and he did have some extra rear axle parts.  The owner had an extensive collection of stuff when he passed away.  All this went to auction about 10 years after his death.  Someone put the body back on the frame with hardware store bolts, threw parts in buckets, put the engine on an old tire, stretch wrapped the parts, and made it look like a complete car.  To the unknowing (me) 1926 radiator and shell,  1922 mud pan, Ford headlight lenses (installed backwards and upside down so you could not read the Ford Script), lots of wrong rims, etc.  I thought I had found correct replacements for mostly all the incorrect items.   I wish I knew who got the other Buick because we could make each other happy swapping each others parts back.  The fact that it came with two 283 Starter generators (1925 Standard only) - both with Master starter pinion gears on the end is very ridiculous.  Even going thru the SG rebuilding, I found several critical pieces missing when I started comparing what the parts book showed to what was in the SG unit.       

 

But starting out the day thinking I merely needed to install the SG unit with 3 bolts and finding out 2 days later what really was wrong is how this entire project has been going.  Always an adventure. 

 

This is a photo of my car in 1963.  That rear bumper did not come with my car.  Another one did, and it did not fit, but it was in with the pile of parts.   Also a photo of all the parts and the body picture used in the auction.     Hugh

 

  

Edited December 15, 2018 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[ROD W]

Wow,  What a challenge.  Its hard enough when you have all the right parts.

[Mark Kikta]

Hugh,

 

thanks for sharing all of that.  It was quite interesting.  That gives me hope😁

 

Mark

[Brian_Heil]

Wow, if this thread isn’t a perfect example of the BCA Spirit and the power of this Forum.   Well done!

[Mark Shaw]

4 minutes ago, Brian_Heil said:

Wow, if this thread isn’t a perfect example of the BCA Spirit and the power of this Forum.   Well done!

And the generosity of it's members!

[bradsan]

55 minutes ago, Mark Shaw said:

And the generosity of it's members!

I'll second that.

 

1 hour ago, Brian_Heil said:

Wow, if this thread isn’t a perfect example of the BCA Spirit and the power of this Forum.   Well done!

And this !!

 

There are a great group of guys with 1925 Buicks  busy writing a restoration manual for me! One day I'll catch up.

 

Brad

[Larry Schramm]

WOW, what a great challenge. I know the challenge. Working on my '08 from a similar looking pile of parts.  Just ask Mark Shaw. He helped me load it into a my trailer.

[Mark Shaw]

3 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

WOW, what a great challenge. I know the challenge. Working on my '08 from a similar looking pile of parts.  Just ask Mark Shaw. He helped me load it into a my trailer.

Yes, but I told Larry to look at the bright side:

The seller saved him the time it would have taken to disassemble it for restoration! 😎