West Peterson Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 31 minutes ago, edinmass said: In my humble opinion, I think its one of the top five Packards in the world........... Perhaps we're not talking about the same car, because as far as I remember, the restored car looked pretty much in the same configuration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 West, I didn’t take photos, and it has to be the same car. V-12 correct? I see so many cars, but as my memory serves me the car looks a bit diffrent now. I am NOT sure, and don’t want to put out incorrect information on any car, especially one like this. I’ll see if I can get a current photo, and then I will PM you. Ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Yes. It is fitted with a V-12. It was a Packard concept car. I remember seeing a factory photo of the car, I think at the Detroit Library. I wish I would have gotten a copy of it, as it is no where to be found on the Internet. I remember seeing the car when JM showed it at the old Meadowbrook Concours... in fact, I was judging the class. It really looks like a hodge-podge, which is why I'm questioning your thought of it being a top-5 Packard design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) My one friend remembers seeing it at a show in the 1960s in the Midwest. The hood on it at the time had 4 inches cut off the front to make it fit. They cut right through the “spear” moulding on the side of the hood and it didn’t look right. I have pictures somewhere. Edited December 10, 2018 by K8096 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 I agree with West. Not to my liking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 I really wish I had a photo of it, but JM is a friend, and I don't want to put out any incorrect information on the car. I think it evolved slowly over the years from when first built, to the final design. For me it's still tops! Any factory experimental car from the classic era is such an incredibly rare piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 It's restoration is truly a work of art, and it was done in a really nice color. Does he have it on display with the rest of his cars? Or, is it hidden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 It was hidden for quite a while, as I have had a chance to get to the far reaches of his multiple places, and hadn't seen it in multiple visits until last time. I think his collection is now my favorite.....and I have seen most of the big ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 A few one off's to ponder........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 another...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 44 minutes ago, edinmass said: A few one off's to ponder........ Nice shot Ed, but you missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 ^^^^^^^^^ So the old Bob Stark V16 wasn't the only Right Hand Drive built? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 45 minutes ago, alsancle said: Nice shot Ed, but you missed. Oooo. It looked bad in the original photo because of the light color, but in dark colors it looks VERY nice!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 58 minutes ago, alsancle said: Nice shot Ed, but you missed. I had the modern photo also, but the car ended up in Pakistan, and didn’t get out till rather recently, so it was a “lost and found”, and I don’t think I would have tried to get it out myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dep5 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1931 Chrysler Custom Imperial CG Town Car Paris, 1934 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Does this exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, K8096 said: Does this exist? Hisso? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) There was a 4 door convertible version of this built that I don't think survived. I've seen pictures of it. Was painted a dark color. Hibbard & Darrin of Paris. Edited December 11, 2018 by K8096 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Walt Gosden might know what happened to the Brunn bodied Franklin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Gillingham Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 19 minutes ago, alsancle said: Hisso? It's an Isotta-Fraschini with a Hartmann body. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Hartmann made a lot of interesting car bodies........some of them were a case of “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”.......this was at Pebble this year, lots of chatter about it before and during the show, as it was a favorite for Best of Show. It won its class. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packard12man Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 West, attached are photos of JM's experimental Packard. Interesting car but definitely not in my top 5! The car was displayed at the Kirkland Concours 8 to 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packard12man Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 The Maybelline Packard supposedly was last seen in a scrap yard in Chicago back in the early 50's. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, packard12man said: West, attached are photos of JM's experimental Packard. Interesting car but definitely not in my top 5! The car was displayed at the Kirkland Concours 8 to 10 years ago. Yep. That's it. Stunning car upon first glance and a top-notch restoration, but kind of a mess aesthetically. One thing that CAN be said about it, is that it did INDEED lead to the most beautiful Packard ever built, the LeBaron Dual cowl phaeton. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packard12man Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Photo apparently taken in June of 1957. Must be still out there somewhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, packard12man said: The Maybelline Packard supposedly was last seen in a scrap yard in Chicago back in the early 50's. A very famous missing car. Good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, alsancle said: A very famous missing car. Good one! It’s only missing if you don’t know where to look............😂 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 The 1934 Packard Full Custom Dietrich Sport Sedan is one of the top five closed cars in the world......in my humble opinion, and certainly the most attractive four door sedan ever made. Just saying....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 I couldn’t afford a lugnut on any of these cars but thank goodness it doesn’t cost to look at them. Great thread. Keep them coming. Dave S 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, SC38DLS said: I couldn’t afford a lugnut on any of these cars but thank goodness it doesn’t cost to look at them. Great thread. Keep them coming. Dave S Its interesting to see the crazy value fluctuations from a standard production car to the one off full blown custom. Both offer the same driving experience, but the price can be twenty to thirty times more for the special. Funny part of it is, 99 percent of the general population can’t tell a standard eight from a custom twelve. It’s like the Pebble Beach paint job versus a nice run of the mill paint job. Almost no non collectors can tell the difference from a twenty five thousand dollar job or the two hundred fifty thousand dollar job. It sure costs a lot of money to impress the one percent of the people! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Letourneur et Marchand. Does this exist? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 16 minutes ago, edinmass said: Its interesting to see the crazy value fluctuations from a standard production car to the one off full blown custom. Both offer the same driving experience, but the price can be twenty to thirty times more for the special. Funny part of it is, 99 percent of the general population can’t tell a standard eight from a custom twelve. It’s like the Pebble Beach paint job versus a nice run of the mill paint job. Almost no non collectors can tell the difference from a twenty five thousand dollar job or the two hundred fifty thousand dollar job. It sure costs a lot of money to impress the one percent of the people! Hey!! I'm a one-percenter! I've arrived! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 31 minutes ago, edinmass said: The 1934 Packard Full Custom Dietrich Sport Sedan is one of the top five closed cars in the world......in my humble opinion, and certainly the most attractive four door sedan ever made. Just saying....... I'd argue that the car you showed at Pebble this year is even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 27 minutes ago, West Peterson said: I'd argue that the car you showed at Pebble this year is even better. I’ll admit that’s a fantastic car...........it was great that it was appreciated and made it to the finals. Quite an accomplishment for a four door American car. Were fortunate to have a few good closed cars. The fit and finish of the closed custom coachwork is too often overlooked, although recently I think people are appreciating them more and more. It was also interesting that all three finalists were closed cars, not sure if that has ever happened in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maok Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 hours ago, edinmass said: Hartmann made a lot of interesting car bodies........some of them were a case of “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”.......this was at Pebble this year, lots of chatter about it before and during the show, as it was a favorite for Best of Show. It won its class. I cant believe that photo is not blurry, the photographer must have had the shutter at super high speed mode....:) Thank you for posting, I am in awe of this beauty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V16 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Here's one I just finished, a 1936 Packard Rollston Stationary Victoria on a long wheelbase Super Eight chassis. A one off custom built for New Jersey industrialist Arthur McEwan. Mr. McEwan had never put the top down on his Rollston 845 ( 1931) Convertible Victoria, so when he went to the dealer to replace it in December of 1935 he ordered his new one with a fixed convertible top! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 29 minutes ago, V16 said: Here's one I just finished, a 1936 Packard Rollston Stationary Victoria on a long wheelbase Super Eight chassis. A one off custom built for New Jersey industrialist Arthur McEwan. Mr. McEwan had never put the top down on his Rollston 845 ( 1931) Convertible Victoria, so when he went to the dealer to replace it in December of 1935 he ordered his new one with a fixed convertible top! I almost posted a period picture of this yesterday as lost. But had this vague recollection it wasn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 4 hours ago, John S. said: Walt Gosden might know what happened to the Brunn bodied Franklin. I think the Brunn Bodies Franklin bit the dusk - I recall one late night over at Bill Bools, house in Montgomery, OH, looking at a set of Convertible Victoria doors that were sort of an off yellow and butterscotch with both of us wondering if they were from this Franklin. I was dropping off a NOS 8" Single Pilot Ray that evening for use on Bill's Duesenberg. Bill use to own the 1931 Stutz DV-32 with a LeBaron Convertible Victoria body, now owned by Joseph and Margie Cassini of West Orange, New Jersey and used the doors to match the upholstery on the Stutz. We both were at the tail end of the flu and near delirious, so doors could have been off anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, John_Mereness said: Nope, it survives - in restoration it was converted to Sidemounted Spare Tires and holds a record price as well for a closed Packard. https://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1934-packard-twelve-1108-sport-sedan/ John, it would be awesome of that was true and I thought that for a while too, but I don't think so. Do you know more of the story then what is out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, West Peterson said: This Stearns is not known to exist. West, I assume they built several - Phillips was the "off the shelf" body builder for Stearns (all be it any 8 cyl Stearns Knight was a rare car new and still today). Edited December 11, 2018 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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