What are some of the great "missing" Classics, prewar American?

[trimacar]

Was just sitting around thinking that there are occasionally some very fine "lost" Full Classics that are being found.  A Pierce coupe show car, for example, that had fallen off the radar for years.

 

What are some of the missing Full Classics that might still be out there?  I'm thinking pre-World War 2, and American Classics.  Any thoughts on missing ones?  

 

In addition, I'm talking rare or one-offs, not along the lines of "there might be another '34 Packard sedan out there"......

[edinmass]

There are two types of “missing” cars......ones that a few people know where they are, and are slowly working on being the first guy in the door when the time comes, and the true missing car that no one knows it’s current whereabouts. I found that missing 32 Pierce 12 LeBaron coupe after hunting for it for more than ten years, it truly was “lost to time” except for the owner and myself. Couldn’t make a deal on it, and the owner never called me back or left my info for his family...........it was a personality issue.......his or mine? I’m not sure. Here is one I worked on and off for more than twenty five years before I landed it. The 1932 New York Auto Show car, the “first” Pierce 12 Sport Pheaton......it was out of the public eye since 1951, some knew where it was, but no one had ever seen it except family members. I kept working the car.........and i landed it. Body number one. It’s the only true Pierce  twelve pheaton in existence. 

 

I could tell tell you what I am chasing now, but then I would have to kill you........🤫

Edited December 8, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[alsancle]

One of the greatest lost classics is the franay bodied model J with the 3 wipers. I’ll find a picture when I’m off my phone.

 

another is the DuPont LeMans car which was photographed in a junkyard in the late 30s.

[edinmass]

Problem is there are some that I can’t mention because we are still looking for them! Also, it’s common for cars to go underground down a deep hole, not to be seen again. Sadly, many great American cars are now no longer residing in the US. As the major cars prices start approaching the numbers of the great types of art, we will see more of them falling of the face of the earth for years at a time. And for the rates auction houses are now getting, there will be lots more private treaty sales that never see the light of day. 

[edinmass]

5 minutes ago, alsancle said:

One of the greatest lost classics is the franay bodied model J with the 3 wipers. I’ll find a picture when I’m off my phone.

 

another is the DuPont LeMans car which was photographed in a junkyard in the late 30s.

 

And then there was the “Duesenberg” I was running down back in the mid 90’s, and got beat out by Big Al.

[keiser31]

I don't know if "missing" is the proper term for this 1932 Cadillac V16 roadster I stumbled across years ago. It was in a garage for years in LaJolla, California. Looked all original to me. I wonder where it is now....

[alsancle]

29 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

And then there was the “Duesenberg” I was running down back in the mid 90’s, and got beat out by Big Al.

 

Tough when you get beat in a race by a 90 year old guy.

Edited December 8, 2018 by alsancle (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

A rebody listed on Craigslist, never a reply. I wanted it and still interested.

I currently have three cars that I won't even mention to their owners.

 

Bernie

[alsancle]

Buick? Caddy?

[edinmass]

The missing Cadillac is alive and well, and I don’t want to spill the beans on its current situation or whereabouts, but you will be seeing it soon...........I can’t wait to see what it looks like..........I think it was a medium blue when new, but am not positive. It’s a FANTASTIC car.

[alsancle]

Here is the Franay.

 

 

[alsancle]

Another great one lost.  “Manuela”, a Horch 853 Coupé

 

[edinmass]

23 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

Tough when you get beat in a race by a 90 year old guy.

 

 

He he was in his early  eighties at the time...........and I got my first sniff at it in my late 20’s.............In the end it all worked out for the best......I get to drive it but someone else is writing the check.......😂

Edited December 9, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

Is the Cord LaGrande speedster no more? Or sitting in a bunker with other missing items from that time period?

[alsancle]

2 minutes ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

Is the Cord LaGrande speedster no more? Or sitting in a bunker with other missing items from that time period?

 

I was getting to that one.  You beat me to it.

 

[alsancle]

Packard "Glasscock" speedster.

 

[alsancle]

Macauley Speedster

 

[Xander Wildeisen]

I think the Cord is still alive. Hidden away.

[alsancle]

The V16 Miller Speedster that I can't find a picture of online but was pictured in 1930 issue of Auto Body Magazine.

[alsancle]

2 minutes ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

I think the Cord is still alive. Hidden away.

 

Doubtful.  But there are plenty of replicas of it.

[edinmass]

The Packard Twelve Speedster Pheaton which is the big brother to the Macaulay Speedster is alive and well, when I was looking at it this spring. I haven’t seen any photos of it on line, and I don’t have any of them myself. It’s a fantastic car, in a garage full of Incredible cars........AJ, do you have a photo?

Edited December 8, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Great thread, hope it has a long life. I "found" a PI Rolls Royce Ascot touring in a one car garage years ago, cats and racoons had mad a condo out of it. Sent the info to Dave Domidian at the time, turned out to be the NYC showroom demonstrator. The owner passed on and her kids sold it to a dealer and then it got a great caretaker who just passed on last month. Tires and top are the only replacement parts on it. I did take 40 years to locate a Pre WWII race car  I once rode in only to find out it can't be bought. 

 

Bob

[jeff_a]

There were three Peerless cars from their foray into the "multi-cylinder race" besides the surviving V-16 in the Crawford Museum. One V-12 and two V-16s. Chances are good that they were scrapped and became aircraft components. But they aren't figments of the imagination: all four were driven to Pasadena, Calif. for re-bodies by Murphy in 1931 from Ohio carrying bodies from the three straight-8 lines. The Peerless V-16 program actually began in 1926 in cooperation with Alcoa. A Japanese auto museum estimated the known V-16 is worth $2.25M .... so it would be foolish to hold onto it if someone had another one in a parking garage in Pasadena somewhere. Supposedly a blind rear quarter sedan was nearly done when the BOD decided breweries were more profitable...

 

Since it's hard to tell what the illustrations are on the coachbuilt.com site are(unlabeled), I don't know what this Murphy design is......but might be what such a Peerless would have looked like:

Edited December 8, 2018 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[edinmass]

22 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

I did take 40 years to locate a Pre WWII race car  I once rode in only to find out it can't be bought. 

 

Bob

 

A P1 Ascot is a hell of a find.............at anytime. The race car can be bought.......it just takes a bigger checkbook to pry it out.........I would bet that there are less than twenty pre war American cars that can’t be bought at any price. Most people will let a car go if the offer is above market, most, not all.

Edited December 9, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

2 minutes ago, jeff_a said:

There were three Peerless cars from their foray into the "multi-cylinder race" besides the surviving V-16 in the Crawford Museum. One V-12 and two V-16s. Chances are good that they were scrapped and became aircraft components. But they aren't figments of the imagination: all four were driven to Burbank, Calif. for re-bodies by Murphy in 1931 from Ohio carrying bodies from the straight line. Supposedly a blind rear quarter sedan was nearly done when the BOD decided breweries were more profitable...

 

Since it's hard to tell what the illustrations are on the coachbuilt.com site are(unlabeled) I don't know what this Murphy design is......but might be what such a Peerless would have looked like:

 

The Peerless twelve has survived and I saw it quite a bit over the past four or five years, I believe it’s in a museum on the west coast now. 

Edited December 8, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[jeff_a]

Don't you mean the Marmon V-12 that changed hands recently at an auction for small money?

[1937hd45]

26 minutes ago, alsancle said:

The V16 Miller Speedster that I can't find a picture of online but was pictured in 1930 issue of Auto Body Magazine.

Got it, the photo, not the car. Bob 

[edinmass]

1 minute ago, jeff_a said:

Don't you mean the Marmon V-12 that changed hands recently at an auction for small money?

 

Yes......your right........not sure how I got that mixed up........getting old.......

[46 woodie]

I have always wondered where cars wind up. My first year attending Hershey was 1968. I have the 1968 directory and counted over 220 Model A Fords. Last Hershey there were about a dozen. Are all of them tucked away in garages? Have they been turned into hot rods? Where the heck are they?

[alsancle]

13 minutes ago, jeff_a said:

Since it's hard to tell what the illustrations are on the coachbuilt.com site are(unlabeled), I don't know what this Murphy design is......but might be what such a Peerless would have looked like:

 

That looks at lot like this.

 

 

[alsancle]

Jeff,  now that you mention Peerless,  how can we forget the Weyman bodied cars?

 

[alsancle]

I think I win with the Franay Duesenberg,  but just in case I'm whipping this one out  (this is a competition, right?).   I own the picture so we can ignore the watermarks.

 

[edinmass]

The missing 1934 Brunn Pierce Arrow coupe would be a great find, 148 inch wheel base two passenger car. I don’t have a photo handy.

Edited December 9, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[alsancle]

I know we are supposed to stay American (I already wandered off the reservation with the Horch)  but this one is long gone to my knowledge.  I don't own this picture.  It sold for over 200 bucks.

 

[jeff_a]

18 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Jeff,  now that you mention Peerless,  how can we forget the Weyman bodied cars?

 

A.J. -- I think if someone found you one of those in that kind of shape and wanted you to pony up a new Corvette for it -- you might say "SOIT-en-lee", depending upon your regional accent.

 

The De Ley coachbuilt Peerless Cabriolet at the 1930 Amsterdam Autosalon you found a photograph of was outstanding, too.

Edited December 8, 2018 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[edinmass]

There is still a lot of cool weird stuff in India........not all of it is well done or tasteful, but some of it is unique. 

[trimacar]

Wow, went to put up a few Christmas decorations, made a turkey and sausage gumbo, and come back with all these responses!

 

thanks, guys, very interesting.

 

I've discussed before a Duesenberg sedan that's not on current radars, I 'be talked to owner before and believe it exists.  It's a big country with lots of hiding places!...

[keiser31]

2 hours ago, edinmass said:

The missing Cadillac is alive and well, and I don’t want to spill the beans on its current situation or whereabouts, but you will be seeing it soon...........I can’t wait to see what it looks like..........I think it was a medium blue when new, but am not positive. It’s a FANTASTIC car.

Do you mean the one I posted photos of? If so, I cannot WAIT to see it.

Edited December 8, 2018 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, keiser31 said:

Do you mean the one I posted photos of? If so, I cannot WAIT to see it.

 

It’s one of two, if I am not mistaken. I last saw it three or four years ago, all apart and under restoration. (Unless it’s the other one.) It was sold to a new collector according to the grapevine, and I was told that car (the one I saw) will now be finished in the reasonable near future. From it’s condition, I expect to see it in the next twenty four to thirty six  months. I can think of about twenty five collectors who would give their left arm to be the first to show it at one of the big concours. 

Edited December 9, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Joe in Canada]

I know of a 1930 Cadillac V16 roadster sitting in a boat house up here that is a basket case. The body was restored and painted about 30 years ago in California where the car came from. I remember he had the chrome plating and engine done and then stored away. I know the owner very well and I believe he will never get back at it.