Engine Choices

[Blue90]

I took the ragtop to my local muffler shop to fix what sounded to me like an exhaust leak coming from the right rear exhaust manifold.  Once up on the lift, the mechanic heard the noise as coming from the engine.  With the aid of his stethoscope I could hear it also; not a pretty sound.  I had it checked out by two other shops I trust and the diagnosis was the same:  Main bearing failure.

I have become aware that this vehicle has not been maintained over the years as well as it should have been.  Car has less than 185k on odometer.  I am the third owner; maybe the fourth.  My wife, Karen-not-a-collector, said that I was taken by a pretty face, again! 😄 That being said even she agrees that this car should be saved:  We went for some beautiful rides this past summer with the top down.

I've done some research in terms of engine fixes (prices are all approximate):

1) Have my engine rebuilt.  $2000.

2) Buy a reconditioned engine.  $1500.http://portlandenginerebuilders.com/engines/

3) Buy a compression-checked and cleaned used engine,<75k.  $700.https://www.swengines.com/getprice.php

4) Pick n Pull.  $300.

None of these include R & R.  $1500.

I have chosen #3.

I'm keeping this car as stock as possible (unless Daniel can convince me otherwise).  I have the blue coupe (that Karen really likes, go figure) to play with.

So I want to replace my engine with another 3.8l.  

One question is should I stick with a 1990 engine?  I can buy a tested '90 engine out of a Reatta with less than 75k miles.

Is it worth finding a later year 3.8l as a replacement, and if so, up to what year were these engines compatible with the Reatta?

 

 

 

[2seater]

I hope Daniel chimes in but from my perspective, it depends if you desire a direct bolt in or are able/willing to make some modifications or adjustments to accommodate a slightly different configuration. Any of the LN3 engines in various GM cars from '88 thru '91 will work directly. There are some crossovers in the type of 3800 available in the late '80's into the '90's to watch for. I know the L27 became available in the Buick Regal in 1990, the LN3 was available in some Oldsmobiles in 1991 and I believe the LG3 was in some full size GM fwd cars right up to 1990, so check for the proper vin code if not sure. 

 

The later model L27 engines will work, but coolant routing is different, may or may not have egr and some other subtle items that can be accommodated. Apparently the later Series II and III can be made to work as well but I have not done so personally. Could be a good time to install a supercharged engine but all of the above would apply plus a reprogrammed chip in the ECM.

[DAVES89]

Before you buy your engine, are you sure it is not the harmonic balancer? 

 Good test is to take off the serpentine belt and run the car. Sure you'll get a warning light but if the noise has gone away that is your problem. Simple 5 minute test anyone can do.

 BTW Hillsboro Auto Wrecking has a number of engines that will work. A 1988 for $268.00 with 175 compression. That is right where you need to be.

Edited December 7, 2018 by DAVES89 (see edit history)

[nic walker]

Hi Stanley,

That is one grand looking automobile with that color combination - please keep it up and going and take some more of those fantastic dropped top summer rides - well worth it !  You have two great replies above ....from two of the Best on the site - I would think it would be a monetary decision.  Ask folks on the forum or friends around/in your area for recommendations of more reasonable or more affordable labor.  Best of Luck !  Nic

[2seater]

10 hours ago, DAVES89 said:

Before you buy your engine, are you sure it is not the harmonic balancer? 

 Good test is to take off the serpentine belt and run the car. Sure you'll get a warning light but if the noise has gone away that is your problem. Simple 5 minute test anyone can do.

 BTW Hillsboro Auto Wrecking has a number of engines that will work. A 1988 for $268.00 with 175 compression. That is right where you need to be.

Dave has an excellent point and it has caught out many others in the past. Costs nothing to check it out

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

I would pick up a 94-95 series one supercharged motor. It will run about the same cost. The only additional cost would be the 5/8 heater hose, extending  the injector plugs, memcaler and tuning.

[Barney Eaton]

A similar story....former Reatta Div director that lives in Wichita was driving his convertible from Wichita to Milwaukee meet in 2017 and the car just stopped running.

He had it towed to the meet area and two different shops looked at it and concluded that the cam shaft had broken (half the valves worked, half did not)

The short story......he purchased a 45K used engine for $300 had it installed at one of the shops in Milwaukee (this saved on transportation) and came out for less than $1000.

 

I would also vote for the supercharged engine........but you also need to get the transmission that goes with it as it is HD.   You would also need a shop that is savy on electronics because I don't think the ECM to BCM is plug and play.

[Jim]

My first thought was also to check the harmonic balancer and you should do that first.

I would go with a used engine from a salvage yard. I have sent many many Reattas to the crusher with good engines in them as these engines are normally so good there is almost no demand for them and they are cheap. You will need to stick with an '88-90 engine as that is a direct replacement and no electrical or mechanical changes need to be done. An '88 engine has the 3800 stamped on the intake plennum but other than that is the same.

Also find a small shop to do the work. $ 1500 sounds too high to me.

[waltmail]

I don't believe any of the options are worth the cost and effort, but saying that, I will take the vehicle, as is, off your hands for $2000.00. 😜

[Blue90]

I will check the harmonic balancer although the paperwork I received with the car shows it was replaced in June of 2016 and less than 3k miles ago.

[Blue90]

On 12/6/2018 at 7:43 PM, DAVES89 said:

Before you buy your engine, are you sure it is not the harmonic balancer? 

 Good test is to take off the serpentine belt and run the car. Sure you'll get a warning light but if the noise has gone away that is your problem. Simple 5 minute test anyone can do.

 BTW Hillsboro Auto Wrecking has a number of engines that will work. A 1988 for $268.00 with 175 compression. That is right where you need to be.

 

Thanks for the tip re Hillsboro Auto Wrecking.  I had not tried them.

[Ronnie]

I would pull the oil pan off and visually inspect the main bearings to make certain that is the problem before pulling the engine. The oil pan is easy to remove on a Reatta.

[Blue90]

Good idea Ronnie.  I have replaced the oil pan in this car when I first got it.  The oil level sensor wasn't working but when I went to unscrew it I found it had been braised onto the oil pan.  I got an oil pan with the sensor at a PnP.

[Blue90]

On 12/7/2018 at 8:36 AM, waltmail said:

I don't believe any of the options are worth the cost and effort, but saying that, I will take the vehicle, as is, off your hands for $2000.00. 😜

 

Sent you a PM.🚘

[Blue90]

I was hoping to work on the car today but instead I had to move it from a friend's garage to another storage space.  I will try to get to it tomorrow.🙄

The drive was about five miles of speeds from 25 mph to 45 mph.  The engine operated as normal except the oil pressure showed low on decelerating and braking, going back up to normal when accelerating.

I also noticed an oil leak (don't know exactly where it"s coming from) on that same side (right) of the engine as the noise that had not been there before.😟

[DAVES89]

I'll bet your oil pressure switch/sensor is going bad, both leaking and giving you a false reading.

[dship]

4 hours ago, DAVES89 said:

I'll bet your oil pressure switch/sensor is going bad, both leaking and giving you a false reading.

They're notorious for this (as most of us have experienced).  I've had to replaced a few on both my Reatta and Riviera.

[Blue90]

Well it's official:  I have a main bearing chewing itself up and an oil leak from the crank seal.😟

I've found two wrecking yards (thanks Dave) where I can buy a 3.8 with good compression for under $300.😊

My regular repair shop said to R&R the engine is about a seven hour job, less than $800.

So I'm thinking of going this route.  Will keep you updated.🤔

Thank you all for your input.

[DAVES89]

Too bad about the engine, but the adjusted labor bill is more in line. Be sure to replace the rear main seal and the drive shaft seals if they take the tranny out with the engine.

 Another thing to consider is the rack and pinion. It will never be easier [or cheaper] to do then now. 

Edited December 15, 2018 by DAVES89 (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

17 hours ago, Retired w/Reatta said:

I've found two wrecking yards (thanks Dave) where I can buy a 3.8 with good compression for under $300.

 

Although you probably know this... be sure you are getting a 3800 engine. There needs to be a "C" in the VIN of donor car.  The engine commonly referred to as the Buick 3.8 was an older version of the 231 cubic inch Buick V-6 that didn't have a balance shaft and other improvements to the engine.

[Blue90]

14 hours ago, Ronnie said:

 

Although you probably know this... be sure you are getting a 3800 engine. There needs to be a "C" in the VIN of donor car.  The engine commonly referred to as the Buick 3.8 was an older version of the 231 cubic inch Buick V-6 that didn't have a balance shaft and other improvements to the engine.

😊Thanks Ronnie.  I will double check the VIN of the donor car.  I just found a third wrecking yard in my area that sells used, compression tested engines for under $300.  All these places list the year and make, and usually the mileage, of the donor car but it never hurts to ask.

 

16 hours ago, DAVES89 said:

Another thing to consider is the rack and pinion. It will never be easier [or cheaper] to do then now. 

Thanks Dave.  I think.  So I go to Rock Auto just to get an idea of the availability of a rack and pinion.  So I see prices ranging from $56.79 to $158.79.  So core prices are ranging from $4.50 to $50.00.  So three ports appear to be favored over two ports.  🙄

So I should replace the water pump. So I guess the freeze plugs also.

So now Karen-not-a-collector (remember her?), says now that maybe we should fix up the convertible, at least for another summer.

Hey!  What's a guy to do? 🤔

 

[DAVES89]

The third port is for the A/C pressure switch. I have always bought 3 port Racks. I would look at the freeze plugs and if they look good leave them alone, Same with the water pump, especially because the water pump is an easy swap. 

 Of course regarding the Rack, if you have receipts and it has been done recently you may want to leave it alone as  well. It's one of those judgement calls "While I'm there" or "Just how much to I want to stick in this car"?

 

[handmedownreatta]

On 12/16/2018 at 9:10 AM, DAVES89 said:

The third port is for the A/C pressure switch. I have always bought 3 port Racks. I would look at the freeze plugs and if they look good leave them alone, Same with the water pump, especially because the water pump is an easy swap. 

 Of course regarding the Rack, if you have receipts and it has been done recently you may want to leave it alone as  well. It's one of those judgement calls "While I'm there" or "Just how much to I want to stick in this car"?

 

it seems to me that the freeze plugs would so easy to change then....changing the rear seal [and all the main bearings]might be a good idea.valve cover gaskets too.also the transmission torque converter seal.

Edited December 22, 2018 by handmedownreatta (see edit history)

[2seater]

It is always a dilemma on how much to do on  a used engine. Even if the outside looks relatively clean, with little evidence of leaks, it is not a guarantee things haven't changed in storage. That said, the freeze plugs are a stinker to change with the engine in the car, and oh so simple with it out. I would replace the six in the main body of the block, two each front and rear plus the two inside the transmission mounting. Almost everything else can be accessed and changed in the car. The rear valve cover isn't the best with the items obstructing it, but the intake manifold, front valve cover, water pump, oil pan etc...are all straightforward. Even doing the front cover, timing set etc..are doable in car. 

 

I know what Dave means about the rack, as I have looked at mine every time I have had the engine out, but I haven't done mine yet at 140k, so may burn me at some point? Check the engine has been stored properly and turns over smoothly by hand. Dave had a lovely very low mileage engine that was severely damaged by rust just because the PCV valve had been removed and left open. 

[handmedownreatta]

On 12/16/2018 at 10:47 PM, 2seater said:

It is always a dilemma on how much to do on  a used engine. Even if the outside looks relatively clean, with little evidence of leaks, it is not a guarantee things haven't changed in storage. That said, the freeze plugs are a stinker to change with the engine in the car, and oh so simple with it out. I would replace the six in the main body of the block, two each front and rear plus the two inside the transmission mounting. Almost everything else can be accessed and changed in the car. The rear valve cover isn't the best with the items obstructing it, but the intake manifold, front valve cover, water pump, oil pan etc...are all straightforward. Even doing the front cover, timing set etc..are doable in car. 

 

I know what Dave means about the rack, as I have looked at mine every time I have had the engine out, but I haven't done mine yet at 140k, so may burn me at some point? Check the engine has been stored properly and turns over smoothly by hand. Dave had a lovely very low mileage engine that was severely damaged by rust just because the PCV valve had been removed and left open. 

id at least pull off the oil pan and check the condition on the main bearings.then install new pan gasket.when you install a 'new' engine you want it to be trouble free for at least a year.

[AZVET]

The Jegs on line catalog shows a remanufactured C code engine for around $2,900.  That's cheap when compared to doing the same type of work on most classic cars out there.

[2seater]

2 hours ago, AZVET said:

The Jegs on line catalog shows a remanufactured C code engine for around $2,900.  That's cheap when compared to doing the same type of work on most classic cars out there.

I couldn't find that listing? I did notice that would be a grand more than a Chevy V6 of about the same vintage, which is unfortunately a fact of life. It costs a bunch more to do a Buick engine vs a Chevy.

[AZVET]

4 hours ago, 2seater said:

I couldn't find that listing? I did notice that would be a grand more than a Chevy V6 of about the same vintage, which is unfortunately a fact of life. It costs a bunch more to do a Buick engine vs a Chevy.

I was unable to copy the listing.  Go to www.jegs.com and type reatta engine into the search area.  I was wrong about the price as it is actually $1,900.  Check their rebuilt heads out too.

[2seater]

8 hours ago, AZVET said:

I was unable to copy the listing.  Go to www.jegs.com and type reatta engine into the search area.  I was wrong about the price as it is actually $1,900.  Check their rebuilt heads out too.

Okay, found it that way. That's a good price. I couldn't find any detail on what parts are used which I was curious about, but no matter. Thanks