gervaisgt

"Mag Wheels" In the AACA Official Revue : Disgusting !!!

Recommended Posts

8 hours ago, Pfeil said:

Ok, you ask me to explain my point so I do that, and then you tell me I'm denigrating the cars in the class and I don't know anything about the class.

My objection  is DPC cars can have modifications. It is not in the spirit of a antique car. Antique automobile club cars should be antiques, points judged class, DPC, class, tours. 

BTW, a condescending tone about not knowing much of the class is not welcome. The class is plain as day, but that's not the issue. The issue was I would change the class so that all the cars in it would be antique cars. A car is no longer antique after it's modified.

 

 

Your earlier post complained about letting modified cars in the club but not letting them in "the big time shows". DPC cars have been allowed in National Meets and Tours for 18 years. I am not attempting to be condescending, I am replying to your comments that demonstrate that you don't seem to understand the 18 year history of the class in AACA. I have also previously told you that if you want to change the rules, you need to try to get elected to the board of directors. Constantly complaining about the rules here is not going to change them. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pfeil

Your definition of "spirit of antique car" is much more rigid than most hobbyists view. AACA is made up many, many different types of people, each enjoying the hobby in his own way. AACA tries to accommodate as many as possible, without going over the edge and allowing customs and hot rods in. It has worked for two decades, and our show fields have NOT had an influx of hot rods. I AM SURE that if a problem arose with true hot rods starting to infiltrate our DPC class, or any other class, the AACA Board of Directors would step up to the plate and make the appropriate changes.

 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Pfeil said:

My objection  is DPC cars can have modifications. It is not in the spirit of a antique car. Antique automobile club cars should be antiques, points judged class, DPC, class, tours.

 

 

You use the term "spirit of" when in fact you really want a rigid, hard set of rules that insist every car be absolutely authentic. You want cars to be exactly as they were when they were new or kick them out. That's not "in the spirit" of anything. Nobody is proposing lead sleds and chopped '32 Fords in AACA, but kicking out cars with radial tires? Aftermarket batteries? Modern spark plugs? Upgraded lighting? Urethane paint? Modern oils? Where, exactly, is your line? It sure sounds like you want all or nothing.

 

There's already an AACA class for absolute authenticity, and those cars get judged on their accuracy and how close they are to new. There are also classes for cars that are driven regularly and classes for those that have merely continued to exist for decades, and if they've picked up incorrect (but functional) parts over the many years they've been in operation, well, I think that's OK. Why? Because the "spirit" of the club is to enjoy owning and driving an old car, not necessarily an obsessive devotion to absolute authenticity (although if that's your thing, I think it's great and it's a worthwhile part of the club). I recon you'd find that casting such a rigid line in the sand would result in a club with about eight members who are constantly at each other's throats because none of them can agree what grade of steel was used on the connecting rod bolts in a 1923 Frankenmuzer roadster.

 

Pump the brakes a little, eh? The way the hobby and the club flourishes isn't by making things harder and more rigid, it's by being accommodating and finding a place for those who want to participate "in the spirit" of the club's intentions. That doesn't mean chopped tops and small block Chevy transplants in the AACA, because that's not the intent of the club; it merely means putting the cars in a class where changes, if any, are defined and disclosed. Just because the AACA allows cars with radial tires and alternators doesn't mean that engine transplants and upgraded suspensions and wild body modifications should be just as permissible.

 

There's a difference and you know it; you're just being pedantic to make a point.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, the most popular thread this week. This is exactly why I no longer Judge.

 

I like Pontiac Snowflake wheels. They were available in everything from 13x6 4x100 to 15x8 (in the 70s) and 5x5. They were later called "Crosslaced" in 16x7 5x115 & others. Most were made by the Motor Wheel co.

snowflake.jpg

 

I do not care for the current trend for lotsa spokes and staggered tires/wheels.

 

ps Snob comes from the English public school system. Once they began admitting commoners there became a question of how to classify them, the record books needed an honorific. To fill the gap, registrars began adding in that block "S. Nob." meaning Sine (without) Nobilis (nobility) or trailer trash.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
11 hours ago, Pfeil said:

Ok, you ask me to explain my point so I do that, and then you tell me I'm denigrating the cars in the class and I don't know anything about the class.

My objection  is DPC cars can have modifications. It is not in the spirit of a antique car. Antique automobile club cars should be antiques, points judged class, DPC, class, tours. 

BTW, a condescending tone about not knowing much of the class is not welcome. The class is plain as day, but that's not the issue. The issue was I would change the class so that all the cars in it would be antique cars. A car is no longer antique after it's modified.

 

FINALLY we get to the root of your discontent, in your last sentence above. Certainly you are entitled to your opinion and I most certainly disagree. DPC is a brilliant concept that works very well. By allowing certain easily reversible modifications, it encourages owners to preserve, drive and enjoy their antique ( yes they are still antiques) vehicles. Most importantly, these DPC owners are valued participants. I don't really get what your end game is. Your rigid exclusionary approach would drastically shrink club participation , and for no good purpose, as it would do nothing to encourage the preservation and enjoyment of antique automobiles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jeff P said:

Curious if you can name those clubs.  Virtually all marque specific clubs allow modifieds.

PM me and I will

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To say a car that has some modifications is not an antique car is incorrect - it is still an antique car (and always will be) but it is now an antique car with modification.  The AACA allows modified cars to be judged - look at a judging sheet and see the deductions for cars that have modificiations - they are numerous and some are large deductions that most likely disqualify you from any award.  The HPOF even allows modifications - they too will be noted and points deducted.  

 

At what point, in your view, is a car no longer antique? Is it with 1 minor modification (i.e. incorrect hose clamps), or 3 or 7 or .....? You get the point.  Not all modifications are the same - some can cost you tons of points and some may cost you 1.  To say a car must be 100% as it left the factory before it is allowed to be on the show field is unreasonable.  Are you going to ask the person who has a minor modification to leave with his car immediately?  When you get to that level of rigidity on showing, you will kiss most shows goodbye.

 

Also, I am in some single marque clubs that are allowing modified cars BUT they are modified to the point where they would not be be "knowingly" allowed on a AACA National Meet field.  There is a big difference and to compare those with what AACA allows is unfair.

 

 

Bob

Edited by Bob Hill (see edit history)
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As mentioned previously, the AACA allows some latitude regarding period-correct modifications in the DPW class and on tours.  This allows people to enjoy the AACA experience without the need to have a 375-point car or an HPOF vehicle.  Elitists who harass vehicle owners for their non-authentic components simply drive members away.  And when they're gone, so are their dues and future contributions to the organization.

 

To me, this hobby is about the people I meet.  The cars just bring us together.

  • Like 10
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i heard a gentleman walking past my 91 chrysler at hershey saying he doesnt want cars built after ww2 at aaca showsa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, ted sweet said:

i heard a gentleman walking past my 91 chrysler at hershey saying he doesnt want cars built after ww2 at aaca showsa

 

Adapt or die. His choice...............Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ted sweet said:

i heard a gentleman walking past my 91 chrysler at hershey saying he doesnt want cars built after ww2 at aaca showsa

I'll bet he was 91! :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is still a free country and I'll walk past whatever that has no interest to me to get to vehicles that are  worth my time to inspect and admire. It is also comforting to be among people that share the same interests in the hobby, let the post WWII squabble among themselves. They fought so hard to get in, tough bunch to keep happy. 

 

 

Bob 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

It is still a free country and I'll walk past whatever that has no interest to me to get to vehicles that are  worth my time to inspect and admire.

 

Of course, I do too. Why would anyone want to look at things that do not interest them?

 

It is those people who make rude remarks about vehicles they are not interested in that drives people away. Those people have bad manners, shouldn't go out in public, just stay as trolls on the internet....😉

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you turn to page 63 of Mark Dees book  "The Miller Dynasty",  you will see illustration of the concept of the very first cast Aluminium  "blade wheels ", in patent drawings that Harry Miller submitted in September 1919.  It seems that this was just before Leo Goosen took employment with him.  There is no indication that Miller actually made and used these cast aluminium wheels; but definitely they constituted "Prior Art" to those Ettore Bugati used on his Type 35 racing cars several years later.  It was not unknown that Buggati sometimes borrowed someone else's concept when something of his own work was not good enough.  In 1923 a young graduate engineer from here in Melbourne, placed a firm order for an A model Duesenberg at the factory. Five  weeks later he was contacted at an address in Chicago, that the Duesenberg was ready for him to drive away.  Alan Powell told me in 1983 when I met him, that at his request, the highest compression ratio pistons were fitted, and numerically lowest axle ratio for fastest road speed.

Alan said that Fred Duesenberg himself   drove him on the Indianapolis Speedway; and he was given a certificate that it had been timed at 106mph, (though not necessarily when Alan Powell was a passenger.)

The car was shipped to England, and was driven at speed on Brooklands track.  He visited Bugati's estate ; and Alan told me in 1983 that he was most impressed how much of the car was produced on the property;  including fine upholstery leather, he said.

Then one of the racing drivers just happened to arrive,  and Alan was sent on an extended joy-ride in one of the Type 30 racing cars.   60 years later he became very angry about Bugati again.  He said "It never did him any good".  He found a team of mechanics had taken the Duesenberg hydraulic brakes apart,, and had the cylinder head off the engine of his new car.  Cylinder head design was not one of Duesnberg's strengths.   Stuart Murdoch ha a fine collection of cars, ( including one of the 1914 Indianapolis Delages.  He also has an early type 30 Bugatti with hydraulic front brakes, which I was told are poor.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now