Terry Wiegand

AND THEN THERE WERE THREE

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Here is another photo of the starter/generator unit.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Looks Great Terry!

Sorry I could not get to see it personally before you had to leave Saturday. Those judging forms were giving me fits and so I was running very late.

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I picked up the small painted parts this morning.  This is the cover for the top of the starter/generator unit.  Karla Maxwell out in Southern California restored the brass Delco tag for me.  It is slowly and surely coming back together.  Parts and pieces from this car have been all over this country from one end to the other being rebuilt and/or restored.  I am going back for the fenders next Monday.  I want to be a bit careful about opening up the shop since the wind is at a pretty good clip for the next few days.  I am going to have to be a bit careful about the parts and pieces going back on to this car - the next thing I will know is that I will have a 'TRAILER QUEEN'!  OH MY GOD NO!!  THAT SIMPLY CANNOT HAPPEN!!😝

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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I spoke with the shop manager at Abrahams Machine Service last Friday.  They have had the '16 engine going on two months and I was just checking in to see how the shop schedule  is progressing as of the latter part of June.  He told me that they would be starting on my engine in about three weeks.  I asked if based on what they would do with the engine if Thanksgiving might be a realistic completion date.  I was told that that was a very real possibility providing everything goes as planned.  I was also told that the owner of the 1937 Cadillac V-16 was starting to get a little impatient about getting the engine back.  You just gotta love it when a plan comes together like that.  The other guy is doing the pushing and I'm just settin' back and not saying a word.  Will keep everyone up to date on the progress.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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As far as troubleshooting why my 1925-25 has refused to cooperate we zeroed in on the ignition again. I had already changed to a new cap, rotor, re adjusted the points square and tried several new condensers.. Also change out the carb to the spare -again.

While on the VMCCA Nickel tour near me by Gettysburg, Larry Schramm said he would come over with his diagnostic scope. We found that # 4 cylinder had a low output (2nd in the firing order). We tried a new W89D long reach plug. No difference. But at least we had a direction to explore. Thank you Larry!  After Larry left I went through the valve adjustment again on #4 as it was a bit tight and then checking each cylinder. Changing out each plug as I restarted and checked operation. No difference...Since it was now after 10 PM. and was dark. I thought I would turn out the lights and see if there was any crossfire between wires. Yes there was! I had felt that since I had made all new wires several years ago that this would not be an issue.

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At the time I used NEW Standard Tinned coper conductor wire but in 7mm with a 90 degree rubber boot. I did a copper wire wrap soldered to the male distributer clips. I also made a setting tool to open up the available 7mm clips as to fit snuggly in the 9mm distributer holes. Trying to get all the plug wires as well as coil and distributer wires behind the spark plug cover and through the wire clamp was still a chore. The last change to effect better running I ended up replacing these wires with the 9mm ones that came on my car back in 2011. These could not fit behind the clamp and were not of the correct lengths to do so.

606159756_25BuickMotor.jpg.8f87ad75bfdcd8a7e550845e888ba22d.jpg   Photo of engine as it was when we bought it in Oct. 2011.

BUT! The engine runs fine now! It has some pick up and power. When returning from a several mile drive the car pulled away from stop signs in high gear! With the spark retarded it was a 1/4 turn with the crank to start it. I will probably order the black 9mm set that Hugh had gotten for his car.  

 Since the car is running well now I fell confident enough to get the hood and the rest of the sheet metal back on the front end.

DSCF7569.thumb.JPG.15c0b30ce10f63c79dee88804de35121.JPG    Today I will try to get the right fender on.

Finally some progress!

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Posted (edited)

Larry, 

     I am really excited if it is your plug wires that are causing all the trouble.  I had no trouble installing the 9mm wires on my car.  Take note of the order that the wires are installed under the wide wire clamp because I think installing any other way makes the wires all bunched up.  The inner two plugs have to take the longest path from the clamp to the plug.  The 9mm set came from www.RJLautofasteners.com  (listed in the prewar links).   The 16 ga wire to the points is not shown in this picture, but it is hidden in the spark plug cover as well.   For the coil end, I do have a modern coil which is a 7MM connector, so if you can order a 7 mm connector, it is easier than modifying a 9mm connector to fit.   Also attached below is my coil upgrade process.  If you want to do this you will need  some extra length of the 9mm  black cloth spark plug wire as the coil wire that is supplied in the kit is about 6 inches shorter than I needed.  Your correctly painted hood and louvers sure looks nice.    Hugh

IMG_7409.thumb.JPG.55586d49e80f7a922c33d263fd92376e.JPG1571111261_CoilUpgrade.thumb.JPG.89c8339efa88879b931c317efc54757b.JPG

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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We moved another step closer today to getting the D-45 back on the road.  The photo shows the new center main bearing cap bolts.  I was a little nervous about re-using the original bolts and nuts.  As a long time John Deere Tractor restorer, my Dad impressed upon me the importance of replacing nuts and bolts whenever possible because of the stress and pulling of the threads when things originally went together.  I know that this engine was built in 1915 and the metallurgy back then was nowhere close to what it is today, so it was an easy decision to make new nuts and bolts for this application.  I had my friend make these for me on his 5-Axis Machining Center.  We used 4140 material and they came out just perfect.  As I have said before, I have the ability to single point these parts, but, going the CNC route is so much faster and the repeatability with the threads is critical.  Mark Kikta let me borrow one of the bolts from his engine since he has it completely down for the measurements.  Thank You again Mark.  The washers are on their way from McMaster-Carr and once they get here everything will be sent to the folks up in Davenport.  Almost forgot this little detail - the cotter pin holes will be drilled on final assembly.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas  

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1 hour ago, dibarlaw said:

As far as troubleshooting why my 1925-25 has refused to cooperate we zeroed in on the ignition again. I had already changed to a new cap, rotor, re adjusted the points square and tried several new condensers.. Also change out the carb to the spare -again.

While on the VMCCA Nickel tour near me by Gettysburg, Larry Schramm said he would come over with his diagnostic scope. We found that # 4 cylinder had a low output (2nd in the firing order). We tried a new W89D long reach plug. No difference. But at least we had a direction to explore. Thank you Larry!  After Larry left I went through the valve adjustment again on #4 as it was a bit tight and then checking each cylinder. Changing out each plug as I restarted and checked operation. No difference...Since it was now after 10 PM. and was dark. I thought I would turn out the lights and see if there was any crossfire between wires. Yes there was! I had felt that since I had made all new wires several years ago that this would not be an issue.

DSCF7208_Moment.jpg.11aec52e7d064a197b9da28cb5292559.jpg   DSCF7218.thumb.JPG.e64a977518fe4c8c5b43b70649d3c772.JPG

At the time I used NEW Standard Tinned coper conductor wire but in 7mm with a 90 degree rubber boot. I did a copper wire wrap soldered to the male distributer clips. I also made a setting tool to open up the available 7mm clips as to fit snuggly in the 9mm distributer holes. Trying to get all the plug wires as well as coil and distributer wires behind the spark plug cover and through the wire clamp was still a chore. The last change to effect better running I ended up replacing these wires with the 9mm ones that came on my car back in 2011. These could not fit behind the clamp and were not of the correct lengths to do so.

606159756_25BuickMotor.jpg.8f87ad75bfdcd8a7e550845e888ba22d.jpg   Photo of engine as it was when we bought it in Oct. 2011.

BUT! The engine runs fine now! It has some pick up and power. When returning from a several mile drive the car pulled away from stop signs in high gear! With the spark retarded it was a 1/4 turn with the crank to start it. I will probably order the black 9mm set that Hugh had gotten for his car.  

 Since the car is running well now I fell confident enough to get the hood and the rest of the sheet metal back on the front end.

DSCF7569.thumb.JPG.15c0b30ce10f63c79dee88804de35121.JPG    Today I will try to get the right fender on.

Finally some progress!

 

That's great news!  I can attest to your situation, and how frustrating it can be when ignition problems seem like fuel problems, and vice versa. 

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Tonight I tightened the last bolt on the bumper and after a year and a half she is back together. Unfortunately it started to rain. Otherwise I would have pulled it out of the garage, put the top down and Joan and I would go for a ride. There will always be more to do but my goal for this past year was to get the car running well and finish the front end paintwork. And If I am lucky a correct top. The body paintwork will come later.
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 Thanks for all your help and support.
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Larry, 

    That is really coming along nicely.  I hope to be able to give you more information and work with you on the convertible top soon.  The sun has really started to beat down on us in Texas, and I would love to have a top on my car as well.  I wonder who else would go in with us on having tops made.  These are a decent car to drive in the summer as long as you can keep the direct sun off yourself.  I do need to start with getting the top sockets measured - and they also need blasting and painting.  I also need to start measuring the wood bows, and I have at least one bow that needs to be replaced.  My top is an aftermarket and fairly shabby, and I want to get the new one made correctly.   The photo of the car when it was at the auction has more of the top attached than when I purchased the car.  Hugh

1886318402_2015-10-2117_57_14.thumb.jpg.b785e77378f52f66f6f803627f8184c7.jpg

192760757_OriginalBuickSale2.jpg.6908af0550a087823d6f045aa1f15c42.jpg

 

 

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Car looks fantastic  Larry.  Finaly got that driver you were looking for when you first bought the car

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Larry I am glad that you were able to eliminate a large portion of your performance issues. The old trick of inspecting plug wires in the dark has been a huge time and money saver for me in the past. I have shared that with many , but most shrug it off until it pays off. 

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On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 10:21 PM, Hubert_25-25 said:

Larry, 

    That is really coming along nicely.  I hope to be able to give you more information and work with you on the convertible top soon.  The sun has really started to beat down on us in Texas, and I would love to have a top on my car as well.  I wonder who else would go in with us on having tops made.  These are a decent car to drive in the summer as long as you can keep the direct sun off yourself.  I do need to start with getting the top sockets measured - and they also need blasting and painting.  I also need to start measuring the wood bows, and I have at least one bow that needs to be replaced.  My top is an aftermarket and fairly shabby, and I want to get the new one made correctly.   The photo of the car when it was at the auction has more of the top attached than when I purchased the car.  Hugh

1886318402_2015-10-2117_57_14.thumb.jpg.b785e77378f52f66f6f803627f8184c7.jpg

192760757_OriginalBuickSale2.jpg.6908af0550a087823d6f045aa1f15c42.jpg

 

 

Hugh:

As I have told several others who assumed that they could get a "KIT" top made up. In this day and age there is no such animal. Even the factory at the time could send the top covering but it would still have to be installed by an experienced "Trimmer". Not to say that one could not do their own top. (See Antique Automobile Vol 30. No 6 Nov. Dec 1966.) The feature car is a 1923 Durant Sport Touring  Restored almost entirely by Mr. Jorma Keto. Including the top in a special material that was nearly impossible to still get in the early 1960s. I can attest to his skill since the family has the car on display at the Rural Heritage transportation museum near me in Maryland. 55 years after he restored the car it still looks fabulous! It just takes skill, experience and proper sewing equipment to do a credible job.

 

   Back in the early 1960s in the AACA magazine  had several ads of "Pre-Cut" tops for certain cars. In the same issue quoted above "Carter's Cut & Cover Shop" on page 71 has "Do-It-Yourself" Kits. Of course Model A and T kits as well as some for Maxwell, 1914-18 Chevrolet 490 Touring, 1921 Oakland Touring, 1923 Oldsmobile Touring as well as some upholstery kits. There even was a 1923 Buick Touring kit! Considering there were 4 different model Buick touring cars that year the chance they actually had what was needed for a particular car was slim. (Spanish Grain Leather kit for a model 55)?

 

 Recently there had been a fellow in California who just purchased a 1926-54 Sport roadster (Barn Find). Wow.... I would love to see that. He never sent any photos. With the oil pan removed and the oil pump removed that had the pump shaft missing. I tried to help him in getting that squared away. (2 piece shaft assembly for the Master). After I sent him all the specs he insisted that he could have a replacement made up as a 1 piece in cold rolled steel!)  He had the impression that getting his car on the road was going to take several weeks. He was impatient even at that time line. He repeatedly called with another question about sourcing this or that part. He complained that there was no one near him in California to install a kit top. He told me that he found a late 1920s Chevrolet top kit would fit!  I told him I was skeptical at best as the Buick is a bigger car. But he insisted. He asked about the clutch (which he could not test since the engine was not running) as to how difficult would it be if it needed to be changed out. Well, he did not like my answer and was very upset, now thinking that he would have to sell the car. No call backs since then.

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Hugh,

When your car is ready for the top, there is only one person to call - and that person is Gary Martin at Goldfield Trim and Upholstery.  Gary taught the upholstery class at McPherson College for several years and in my humble opinion is one of the best guys in the upholstery and trim business out there.  You can certainly do what you wish, but, watching you as the perfectionist that you are with this restoration, it would be a flat out crying shame to have a mediocre top on the car.  Gary is in Des Moines, Iowa.  What you will save in trial and error and aggravation will pay for the trip to Iowa.  Gary can be reached at - (785) 906-0125.  His website is - www.goldfieldtrim.com   I learned a long time ago that a person simply cannot be an expert at everything that they want to do.  I will not lay a hammer and saw down to anyone concerning building my shop or the restoration of this old house, however, I don't play with thread and sewing machines.  Give Gary a call.  It will be the smartest call that you will ever make.  He's not paying me to say that either.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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 Joan and I went for another ride tonight. About 5 miles. Beulah is still running nicely.

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Larry and Terry, 

     Thanks for the notes about top availability.  This helps with my understanding and knowing who to turn to if I decide not to do the top on my own.  I have installed numerous tops in the past but like everything on these early Pre war cars, it's just not the same as anything you did before.     Hugh

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Hugh,

Ask Larry about the top and side curtains on our 1916 D-45.  Gary did the top and curtains for me and Larry has been here and looked the car over in person.  I will be the last person to try and talk you into something that you do not want to do.  With me it is just that I know all about Gary's craftsmanship.  A person will go a long time before they run across someone as capable and talented in upholstery work as Gary Martin.  Regardless of what you do, at least talk with Gary before you decide on what you want to do.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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I got the fenders back from the paint shop yesterday.  We covered them in large commercial trash bags before wrapping them in the moving blankets.  I wanted to get some photos posted before re-wrapping them for storage.  I am very happy with the way things are coming together.  The next thing is to get the gasoline tank sent out for cleaning and the baked internal coating.  The folks at Davenport tell me that there is a pretty good possibility that the engine could be coming back sometime around Thanksgiving.  We're keeping our fingers crossed.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Here is a photo of one of the rear fenders.  

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Here is a little better photo of one of the rear fenders.  This is the one that had the extensive metal work done on the lower front beaded edge.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Posted (edited)
On 11/30/2018 at 5:18 PM, Terry Wiegand said:

The casting has some problems as you can see in the photo also.  The guys told me that there is always the possibility for this type of problem to become exposed.  Three manifold studs were also a casualty of the heating process.  The high temperature in the oven was well over 700 degrees.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

PB300338.JPG

Terry, I just keep coming back to this.

I know you also noted that other expert eyes suggested these cracks were caused by freezing... But just what happened to those 3 manifold studs?

How safe is it to send a 101+ year old block through this process? Can it really take it?

 

I ask because my fretful mind is deciding where to send my cotter-pin damaged E-35 engine. The place that ‘exposed’ these cracks for you is one that I am considering.

There isn’t a shop out there without a 6-9 month backlog of work - so I’ll have plenty of time to make an informed decision. 🙂

 

I do know this: It’s not going to any shop specializing in Model A engines. These earlier Buicks (not even this tiny 4-cyl) are not made up of a bunch of throwaway parts.

 

Ben

Edited by Ben Perfitt
Typo (see edit history)

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Ben,

I truly understand your concern about putting a Buick engine like yours through the cleaning process.  There just is not an abundance of replacement parts out there for these engines like ours.  Let me give you more of the details about how I got to where I am today.  As of November, 2018, my engine had not been started and ran since July 4th, 1976.  I was the last person to ever drive this car on that day.  My parents began the process of building a new home just a few weeks thereafter.  My Dad drained the coolant from the radiator and block and covered the car up with old Army blankets in the one corner of his shop.  He did not put the stick on the clutch pedal and he did not drain the gas tank.  The car sat like that until late 1992 when I had my new shop building finished up.  The car has not been started or driven for going on 44 years.  That is a long time for a water jacket to start to do some funny things.  My Dad never ran Anti-Freeze in the cooling system.  He always used Distilled Water and a product called Rust Master.  When I started getting ready to bring this engine back to life, I ran into some problems.  Three of the freeze plugs were rusted through and I could tell that the water jacket was pretty well choked up with rust and scale.  I read about the thermal cleaning process here on the forums.  I checked into it and I felt that this was the only way to go with this engine.  I did find out that there are not very many places in the country that have the knowledge and equipment to do this process.  Precision Machine, Incorporated in Jefferson City, Missouri is the closest to me.  I called and spoke with Brian Hager (owner) and told him about what I was doing.  He told me to bring the block over and that they would be able to clean things up for me.  He cautioned me that the process can and does sometimes reveal problems like what happened with my block.  We pressed ahead and the photos I posted reveal the results.  Yes, I was disappointed, but, on the upside, things were very fixable, and that is exactly what we did.  With regard to the manifold studs - they thread right into the water jacket.  Brian Hager is of the opinion, and I share that thinking, that those three studs simply were eaten away with rust from the inside out.  I made new studs and installed them with a thread sealer.  The folks at Noland's Cylinder Head Service in Kansas City, Missouri repaired the cracks using the Lok-N-Stitch process and one would never know that there had ever been a problem.  They Magna-Fluxed the whole casting and pronounced it solid and good to go for the possible machine work needed in the cylinder bores.

They also pressure tested it at 45 PSI before I picked it up.  Here is something else to consider.  The radiator for this car is as clean as a whistle.  I had my local radiator shop flush and backflush it several times and he pressure checked it at a 1/4 pound.  He told me that that radiator is as good as anything on a brand new vehicle.  I was not willing to choke up that radiator with all of the crud that was in the water jacket.  A new core could be north of $3,000.00 - that would go a long way towards the engine rebuild.  I am of the opinion that if I am going to do this, I am going to take the time to do it right and do it only once.  Ben, you have my email address and phone number, give me a shout and we can talk things through and probably answer a lot of questions for you.  I am always glad to help a fellow Pre-War Buick enthusiast.  This is what it's all about.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

renobuickman@gmail.com

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Still tryin' to move forward.  I got the hood hold down latches installed on the hood sills.  I still need to put the hood lacing on the sills using the split rivets.  I will do that once things are bolted down and secure.  The guys at the paint shop did a beautiful job on all of the painted parts.  These will go in the big trash bags until assembly.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Noticing that my pretty cloth covered spark plug wires are eventually going to get oil covered if I don't do anything to keep them out of the oil behind the spark plug cover.  I made a plastic shield to keep the direct oil off of them.  The sheild is cut from some plastic packaging material.  It is shown here on the front side, but I installed it behind the wires but just underneath the spark plug cover on the top.  So other than mist, the wires will not have any oil dripping down on them near where the spark plug wires come thru the cover.    The dimensional drawing would be for 1925/26/27 .  Hugh

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