Terry Wiegand

AND THEN THERE WERE THREE

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The cylinder block was delivered to Noland's Cylinder Head Service in Kansas City this morning.  Tom Noland told me that he thought I would have it back around the middle to latter part of January.  I brought one of the repair screws back with me so that I could post a photo on here to show the detail.  The YouTube video of a casting crack repair is very helpful in showing exactly how a repair is done.  The screw that will be used to repair my block is shown in the photo.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

PC100350.JPG

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These guys are a great shop. The day I was there they were working on a RR Silver Ghost engine.  I took the head for my Allis-Chalmers "C" model tractor to them and they did a great job at a good price. The place was recommended to me by a buddy that used to race sprint cars back in the late 70's through the early 90's. They seem to be the go to place for work needing to be done on old stuff as well a high performance stuff.

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I have a question or two or three that I am going to direct toward Larry DiBarry and Hugh Leidlein.  Here is a photo looking straight into the backside of the flywheel on my D-45.  I see no marks on the crankshaft studs or any marks on the flywheel proper that will tie it to the correct indexing to the crankshaft.  The timing marks on the outside diameter of the flywheel are critical to ignition timing.  I have a spare flywheel that I got from Dean Tryon several years ago and there are no marks on the clutch side or what I will call the backside of that wheel either.  OK guys, are the flywheels in your 6-Cylinder engines plain like mine here in the photo is?  Did you mark them in any way for proper re-assembly?  I am thinking that I will prick punch one of the studs and the corresponding side of the stud on the flywheel.  Any explanation or advice will be much appreciated.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

PC120352.JPG

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Terry, 

       Before flywheel removal, rotate 1 and 6 piston to TDC and align the mark that is on the teeth side of the flywheel with the 1-6 line.  My photo shows the 1-6 line, but it was not taken at TDC.   What you should find is that one of the bolt holes is TDC.  At least that was the way it was on my engine.   This is the hole to punch and on the inside face of the flywheel.  These are the punch marks I put on mine.  You will have to really zoom in on the assembly, but there is green tape where the #1 top bolt is and these punch marks are below it.  They are not necessary to punch, but useful and superfluous.  (Ah, my chance to use a big word).  When you have the engine balanced, they will balance the flywheel by itself, and the crankshaft by itself.  This way you can use either flywheel.  You still want the TDC mark of the flywheel to be on TDC of 1 and 6 which ever flywheel you use.     Hugh

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Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

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What ideas do anybody have about how to plug those big square mouse holes. I understand those holes have to be there so spent clutch material can spin out by centrifugal force, but mice get in and build nests. Now you put your foot on the clutch and acorn shells fall between the plates, and the clutch is permanently engaged.

 

I think maybe welding something across the hole so the space is too small for a mouse but big enough to let clutch dust out.

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22 minutes ago, Morgan Wright said:

What ideas do anybody have about how to plug those big square mouse holes. I understand those holes have to be there so spent clutch material can spin out by centrifugal force, but mice get in and build nests. Now you put your foot on the clutch and acorn shells fall between the plates, and the clutch is permanently engaged.

 

I think maybe welding something across the hole so the space is too small for a mouse but big enough to let clutch dust out.

 

Dealing with mice infestation problems, I would suggest enticing them to other areas, away from the car.  

 

Fresh peanut butter on a snap trap, placed under the car or in a shadow, in a corner, is hard to resist.  Check traps often, even daily, and keep the peanut butter fresh. 

 

Cover all tailpipes so they don't nest in the muffler or worse, closer to the cylinder head. 

 

My garage storage is tight and modern, with stand up attic storage above, and I still trap over a dozen mice over the winter months.  Snap traps allow the poor little souls to be recycled back into nature, tossed by a tree at the edge of the property, as a meal for a fox or owl, complete with peanut butter aftertaste! 

 

Edited by 27donb (see edit history)
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Buick continued to build their engines in a way that the flywheel can be put on wrong for a long time - nutso. When I got my '38 Roadmaster the flywheel was on wrong it took me a while, when doing a tuneup, to figure out what was wrong in trying to time it. I ended up timing by ear.

 

Just knowing that the flywheel can go on wrong is a great start in avoiding the problem.

 

Since the timing hole on the bellhousing is at 12:00, the flywheel marks should align with #1 and #6 throw at 12:00 too.

 

My '18 is wrong and I just remarked the flywheel with new marks.

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Before I removed the clutch and flywheel on my 1937 I center punched the locations on the crankshaft end for alignment and balance for the clutch. (Then "CARS" lost my clutch pressure plate.) Both my 1925 engines had a center punch mark to locate flywheel to crankshaft.

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2 hours ago, dibarlaw said:

Before I removed the clutch and flywheel on my 1937 I center punched the locations on the crankshaft end for alignment and balance for the clutch.

 

 

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With #1 at TDC (not visible here), we lined up the flywheel so the timing marks showed through the window.

Then we drew that line you see so it all went back aligned.

 

 

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The "double punch" marks allowed me to replace the pressure plate on the flywheel  in it's original balanced position.

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I really appreciate all of the photos and shared information concerning my crankshaft/flywheel questions.  However, it sure leaves a person wondering just how things were assembled in a rather rapid paced environment back in the day.  Could a jig have been used to position the crankshaft for the mating of the flywheel?  And Gary tells us that over 20+ years later they must have been doing the assembly of the engines in a somewhat similar manner.  I am going to center punch one of the crankshaft studs and center punch the flywheel right next to that stud so that there will be no question as to the indexing of the wheel.  I just thought that there might have been some type of marking(s) from the engine plant for this situation.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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All engines, other than Buick, I have worked on, the flywheels either had a dowel pin or offset boltholes so the flywheel could go on only one way.

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The new throw-out bearing came in today.  This is the first bearing that I have seen in almost forever that has absolutely no identification marking on it.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

PC200355.JPG

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Don,

I believe that you are absolutely correct.  The sectional view drawing in the Reference Manual shows this bearing to be a ball type bearing.  I have the wrong part here.  I need to be making a couple of calls to two guys who have gone completely through the transmissions on 1916 6-Cylinder cars.  I thought I read the parts book correctly and it is evident that I did not get it right.  Stay tuned.

 

Terry Wiegand

Out Doo Dah Way

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Roller bearing would be fine, but it would need to be a tapered roller bearing.  If you could find one the correct size, I would prefer it over a ball bearing.  I would prefer a sealed double shielded for no maintenance.  

Edited by Larry Schramm (see edit history)
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Terry,

You'd need an axial thrust ball bearing similar to a front wheel bearing. A good bering house should be able to help.

Since a throwout bearing isnt "in business" all the time, that gives you more options.

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All is not lost here.  The bearing that I got is the front bearing for the input shaft in the front end of the transmission case.  I really do not need this particular bearing, so I am thinking that I will return it for credit.  I did remove the clutch release ring and bearing from the input shaft this afternoon.  After cleaning things up I found that the throw-out bearing is in remarkably good condition.  The solvent tank removed all of what was left of dried up old grease and high pressure cleaning with Kerosene left things ready for the new grease to pack the bearing.  I keep finding things like this that makes me think that this car really doesn't have all that many miles on the clock.  It certainly has led a sheltered existence since going back to 1943.  I can trace its history back that far.  More photos to come.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas 

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Did a great deal of work with rolling element bearings. A typical ball bearing can handle 1/3 of its radial load in the axial/thrust direction.  They are designed to carry primarily in the radial direction so the 1/3 is sort of ‘free’. Often a consideration for helical gear thrust loads. 

 

That’s a big roller bearing if that’s a standard paper towel it’s resting on.  I assumed it was a rear wheel bearing for a ‘newer’ late 20s Buick. 

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The throw-out bearing has been thoroughly cleaned and ready for grease.  After getting this all cleaned up I was amazed at how good of condition it is in.  The other associated parts relating to the input shaft are soaking in the solvent tank and hopefully the temperature will stay high enough so that I can get the other parts cleaned up.  Hope everyone had a Very Merry Christmas.

 

Terry Wiegand

Out Doo Dah Way

PC250357.JPG

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 Since the kids descended upon us last Saturday I have had a miserable cold. Yesterday I was finally feeling able to go out to the garage and do some work. I got the new oil pressure line made up with my new expensive tube sleeve nuts and installed. While I changed out the old S/W oil gage I also changed out the S/W Ammeter to the original National style. Unfortunately I did not study the configuration of both gages. The S/W shows charge to the right while the National shows charge to the left. I hooked it up backwards which when I started the engine pegged it to discharge. I reversed the leads and it does now show charge but will not set at”0” when off. When I first got the gage I had a time getting it to rest at “0” so I may have to pull it and balance the pointer again.

 By the way. Working on the instruments is much easier with the cowl vent off and the speedometer out.

 I ran the engine for about 20 minutes. At slightly elevated idle the Vacuum gage was steady at 15 lbs. After cool down I snugged up the manifold nuts again. The engine does feel responsive. With the National 0-50 lb oil gage the pressure was showing close to 25lbs. The old S/W gage was about the same at 22 lbs. I feel that the valve clearance still needs some tweaking.

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Larry,

I wonder just how many variations of these oil pressure gauges there were.  I think that at one time I had about five of them.  I ended up getting one good one out of all of the parts and pieces.  Here is what I have left.  As you can see there are differences.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

PC280364.JPG

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Terry:

 Good to talk with you last night as usual. There does appear to be quite a variety of gage types, pressures, mountings etc. Your earlier gages go up to 10 lbs. Depending on applications. The original National gage for my 1925 standard is to be a 0-30 lb. I searched for years to find one and was only able to find the 0-50 lb on ebay  several years ago.

 It had a bracket mount for a motor cycle. That is why I had to make a new mounting bracket. I had to re-stake the mounting studs since they were loose. The threads were #14X24. Luckily I have both a tap and die. 

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Original gages in my friend Dan Evan's original low mileage 1925-21 sedan. Photo taken at the 2014 Portland Meet.

 After I showed Hugh what I did with my 0-50 unit he said he had several spare 0-30 units. I already spent a lot of time reworking my gage to start all over again.

There was currently a National 0-30 gage on Ebay that has a threaded bezel.

 I had to make a special holding jig to clamp the case to work off the fragile bezel. I had the bezel re-plated and after a search of clock shops, welding supplier (pressure gage replacement parts) to find a lens, I ended up cutting and fitting my own. I do have a very rough 0-30 with rust holes in the case and an obliterated face. It has the inlet for an 1/8" O.D. line. 

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