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AND THEN THERE WERE THREE


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This is going to be a start over of my original thread.  I accidentally deleted the whole original thread while trying to clear the message and start over after not being able to post a photo.  I am sorry about this.  I will just have to pick up where I left off with the posting of new photos.

I simply do not understand this business of making photos lower resolution to satisfy some silly requirement that has been put in place.  I will continue to post one photo at a time like I have always had work before.  Again, I apologize for wrecking the whole thread.  There were some really interesting photos that have probably been lost.  Keep in mind that I am just a lowly tool and die person who is capable of extremely high precision machine work.  I don't do computers really well at all.  I called Matt Hinson to see if he could help me with this and I have not heard back from him as of yet.  

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Here is a question for the early Buick experts.  The photo shows the clutch spider for the D-45.  The thrust bearing has what looks like formed covers on each side.  These covers are free to move and/or rotate in the spider hub.  My question is this - what is holding the bearing in the hub?  Have any of you ever taken one of these apart? If so, please tell me how the bearing comes out of the hub.  There is no bearing number visible on the open side.  It could possibly be hidden in the hub side of the spider.  Caution is the word of the day here.  Thank you for any and all information.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

PB280335.JPG

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Really ! 

 

I cannot believe that in this day and age a whole thread can be deleted accidently or not !

Surely there must be some sort of safeguard against this.

I sure would hate for something like this to happen again to any other thread. I am thinking specifically of the excellent restoration thread of Gary's 1937 model 48.

Forums like this are an excellent resource for budding restorers of cars, bikes, vintage machinery, musical instruments, furniture ( add your hobby/interest here ) worldwide, and properly protected should last forever.

Hopefully the moderators can restore the original thread and put in place a process to prevent it happening ever again.

 

David.

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If you start a thread, you can delete it. Before you delete it, you will get a pop up box with a question asking if you want to delete it. If you click yes, the forum software will do what you asked it to do and delete it. If it is deleted, there is no way to restore it. If you are trying to delete anything, be careful. It would be much safer to "edit" rather than "delete" a post in a thread that you start. Computers are very fast and efficient at doing what you ask them to do, even if it is not what you intended to do. 

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10 hours ago, Terry Wiegand said:

please tell me how the bearing comes out of the hub

Terry,

     Most bearings like this can be pressed out from the back side.  If none of the bearing is exposed from the back, it will be ruined when driven out with a screw driver or other drift inserted in the middle of the bearing and driven out from the back side.

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Since we are back to showing progress, I had a friend help me install the head on my car, and the transmission, and pull up the rear axle.  The transmission has been out the car for 55 years so it is really nice to start getting some big parts off the work bench.   So much easier to do this with the body off.  A good number of the high head bolts were in a coffee can with no labels from when the transmission was removed and using the book of parts I was able to find where they all went.    Hugh

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Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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The block has been cleaned and the cleaning process left the inside of the water jacket looking almost like what you see on the outside.  The casting has some problems as you can see in the photo also.  The guys told me that there is always the possibility for this type of problem to become exposed.  Three manifold studs were also a casualty of the heating process.  The high temperature in the oven was well over 700 degrees.  The next step is to get the casting up to Noland Cylinder Head Service in Kansas City.  I spoke with Mr. Noland this morning about the problem.  He has spoken with Brian Hager of Precision Machining in Jefferson City, Missouri about what is going on with the casting.  The repair is a process called Lok-N- Stitch.  There is absolutely no heat involved with this and Mr. Noland tells me that when the repair is completed and the surface of the casting is dressed, one will never know that anything has ever been done.  The INSIDE of the water jacket (read that as cylinder walls) is solid and free of any issues.  The block was magnafluxed all over checking for cracks everywhere.  I was also told that the cracks were more than likely caused from the coolant freezing and not necessarily a thin casting wall condition.  This wasn't what I was wanting, however, things are very fixable and the block is headed up to Kansas City next week.  I might add that the cost for the cleaning was $125.00 and I thought that was very reasonable.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

PB300338.JPG

Edited by Terry Wiegand
ADDED MATERIAL (see edit history)
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Here is a photo of the water pump side of the block.  There are steel stampings all over the top of the block.  Each and every cage counterbore is numbered.  The bottom side of the cylinders are number stamped also.  Before this casting goes under paint, I am going to go all over the outside with a Dotco and dress it up so that it will look real good with the paint on it.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

PB300339.JPG

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19 hours ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

Since we are back to showing progress, I had a friend help me install the head on my car, and the transmission, and pull up the rear axle.  The transmission has been out the car for 55 years so it is really nice to start getting some big parts off the work bench.   So much easier to do this with the body off.  A good number of the high head bolts were in a coffee can with no labels from when the transmission was removed and using the book of parts I was able to find where they all went.    Hugh

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Great progress, need more pictures! 

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2 hours ago, dibarlaw said:

See if these links work for the videos.

 

 

 

Sounds great! 

 

It seems to me that if you are doing initial running, and breaking in the cam, it would be benefitial to supply the carb using gravity feed from a gas can.  That way it might help rule out a carb issue, while allowing the engine to run and warm up without going lean and stalling. 

 

After the engine is run in, sort out the vacuum tank issue, if that's indeed what the problem is. 

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https://youtu.be/4dnV6NsYQks

Problem has pretty much been worked out now that it is timed correctly. I will adjust as Brian Heil has outlined. I have things pretty well buttoned up. Now just some tweaking and replacement of oil line to gage as it has a crack. Also make up a bit longer coil wire to route under the spark plug cover. 

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I need to take a ride!

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Larry, 

       Really glad to hear that you have Buelah up and running.   I wish I was close enough to go for a ride.  

The nuts used on the 1/8 and 1/4" tubing for oil/vacuum/and fuel lines are called "brass threaded sleeve nuts".  I went looking for them the other day, and it took forever to find them without knowing the correct term.   I think I found these with the search term  "1/8 tubing sleeve nuts"      Hugh

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Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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Here is a photo of the removed clutch cone.  I am going to take it out to my John Deere Dealer for some further high pressure cleaning before it gets shipped for the new lining.  I am here to tell you all that the leather is as hard as a rock.  Andy Wise will get it back to me at the Chickasha Swap Meet in March.  This is the transmission side looking into the flywheel.  I'll post a photo of the other side also.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Terry;  The best repair I've done is to reline the cone clutch in new leather.  The clutch is the best feature of my car now, I can move it inch by inch if needed without bucking and snorting.  Good luck with your rebuilds everyone.

 

Regards, Gary

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The cylinder block is going to Noland Cylinder Head Service in Kansas City, Missouri in the morning for the crack repair.  I am thinking that it will be sometime after the first of the year before it will come back home from what they have told me.  In the meantime the new throw-out bearing is on the way.  That is a story that could take two pages to describe.  The International Bearing Interchange gave a few sources for New Departure Hyatt and the only number was a company by the name of Rollway.  I had never heard of this company before, but, they had the bearing in stock in a warehouse in Tennessee.  I am going to look into the thrust bearing that is in the spider in the first photo in this thread next.  Gotta keep moving forward.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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The cylinder block was delivered to Noland's Cylinder Head Service in Kansas City this morning.  Tom Noland told me that he thought I would have it back around the middle to latter part of January.  I brought one of the repair screws back with me so that I could post a photo on here to show the detail.  The YouTube video of a casting crack repair is very helpful in showing exactly how a repair is done.  The screw that will be used to repair my block is shown in the photo.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

PC100350.JPG

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These guys are a great shop. The day I was there they were working on a RR Silver Ghost engine.  I took the head for my Allis-Chalmers "C" model tractor to them and they did a great job at a good price. The place was recommended to me by a buddy that used to race sprint cars back in the late 70's through the early 90's. They seem to be the go to place for work needing to be done on old stuff as well a high performance stuff.

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I have a question or two or three that I am going to direct toward Larry DiBarry and Hugh Leidlein.  Here is a photo looking straight into the backside of the flywheel on my D-45.  I see no marks on the crankshaft studs or any marks on the flywheel proper that will tie it to the correct indexing to the crankshaft.  The timing marks on the outside diameter of the flywheel are critical to ignition timing.  I have a spare flywheel that I got from Dean Tryon several years ago and there are no marks on the clutch side or what I will call the backside of that wheel either.  OK guys, are the flywheels in your 6-Cylinder engines plain like mine here in the photo is?  Did you mark them in any way for proper re-assembly?  I am thinking that I will prick punch one of the studs and the corresponding side of the stud on the flywheel.  Any explanation or advice will be much appreciated.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Terry, 

       Before flywheel removal, rotate 1 and 6 piston to TDC and align the mark that is on the teeth side of the flywheel with the 1-6 line.  My photo shows the 1-6 line, but it was not taken at TDC.   What you should find is that one of the bolt holes is TDC.  At least that was the way it was on my engine.   This is the hole to punch and on the inside face of the flywheel.  These are the punch marks I put on mine.  You will have to really zoom in on the assembly, but there is green tape where the #1 top bolt is and these punch marks are below it.  They are not necessary to punch, but useful and superfluous.  (Ah, my chance to use a big word).  When you have the engine balanced, they will balance the flywheel by itself, and the crankshaft by itself.  This way you can use either flywheel.  You still want the TDC mark of the flywheel to be on TDC of 1 and 6 which ever flywheel you use.     Hugh

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Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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What ideas do anybody have about how to plug those big square mouse holes. I understand those holes have to be there so spent clutch material can spin out by centrifugal force, but mice get in and build nests. Now you put your foot on the clutch and acorn shells fall between the plates, and the clutch is permanently engaged.

 

I think maybe welding something across the hole so the space is too small for a mouse but big enough to let clutch dust out.

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22 minutes ago, Morgan Wright said:

What ideas do anybody have about how to plug those big square mouse holes. I understand those holes have to be there so spent clutch material can spin out by centrifugal force, but mice get in and build nests. Now you put your foot on the clutch and acorn shells fall between the plates, and the clutch is permanently engaged.

 

I think maybe welding something across the hole so the space is too small for a mouse but big enough to let clutch dust out.

 

Dealing with mice infestation problems, I would suggest enticing them to other areas, away from the car.  

 

Fresh peanut butter on a snap trap, placed under the car or in a shadow, in a corner, is hard to resist.  Check traps often, even daily, and keep the peanut butter fresh. 

 

Cover all tailpipes so they don't nest in the muffler or worse, closer to the cylinder head. 

 

My garage storage is tight and modern, with stand up attic storage above, and I still trap over a dozen mice over the winter months.  Snap traps allow the poor little souls to be recycled back into nature, tossed by a tree at the edge of the property, as a meal for a fox or owl, complete with peanut butter aftertaste! 

 

Edited by 27donb (see edit history)
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Buick continued to build their engines in a way that the flywheel can be put on wrong for a long time - nutso. When I got my '38 Roadmaster the flywheel was on wrong it took me a while, when doing a tuneup, to figure out what was wrong in trying to time it. I ended up timing by ear.

 

Just knowing that the flywheel can go on wrong is a great start in avoiding the problem.

 

Since the timing hole on the bellhousing is at 12:00, the flywheel marks should align with #1 and #6 throw at 12:00 too.

 

My '18 is wrong and I just remarked the flywheel with new marks.

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Before I removed the clutch and flywheel on my 1937 I center punched the locations on the crankshaft end for alignment and balance for the clutch. (Then "CARS" lost my clutch pressure plate.) Both my 1925 engines had a center punch mark to locate flywheel to crankshaft.

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2 hours ago, dibarlaw said:

Before I removed the clutch and flywheel on my 1937 I center punched the locations on the crankshaft end for alignment and balance for the clutch.

 

 

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With #1 at TDC (not visible here), we lined up the flywheel so the timing marks showed through the window.

Then we drew that line you see so it all went back aligned.

 

 

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The "double punch" marks allowed me to replace the pressure plate on the flywheel  in it's original balanced position.

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I really appreciate all of the photos and shared information concerning my crankshaft/flywheel questions.  However, it sure leaves a person wondering just how things were assembled in a rather rapid paced environment back in the day.  Could a jig have been used to position the crankshaft for the mating of the flywheel?  And Gary tells us that over 20+ years later they must have been doing the assembly of the engines in a somewhat similar manner.  I am going to center punch one of the crankshaft studs and center punch the flywheel right next to that stud so that there will be no question as to the indexing of the wheel.  I just thought that there might have been some type of marking(s) from the engine plant for this situation.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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