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Early 216 spun Babbitt type bearing


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You need to elaborate much more, year, make, model, ect........also, if you have one bad bearing on a new motor, you probably have other issues. Just pouring a new rod bearing and installing it more often than not you will encounter other issues. Posting photos of the bearing and the crank will help determine the cause of failure. At the minimum, you should pull the head, oil pan, and all the rods just to clean and inspect everything. Fast, quick, and dirty....IE just fixing the rod is a recipe for additional disaster. With 300 miles and a failure......you DO have problems, now you need to figure out the extent of it. Look forward to additional info and photos. Best, Ed

 

PS - You can have babbit bearings or inserts, a spun bearing refers to the inserts spinning or moving while the engine is running, usually it causes galling, and blocked oil passages to other parts of the motor, you need to do some teardown to figure things out. Photos of what you find in the bottom of the oil pan will also tell a story......

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1 hour ago, Mongol said:

Accelerator got stuck on me

 

Well......even so, unless it was for more than thirty seconds, It shouldn't have spun. While a full throttle rpm is hard on the engine, it should be able to handle it for a short time even after just 300 miles. Sounds like the rod sizing may have been off or not optimal, I would also suspect oil failure.............and the reason of why it failed must be determined. A Chevy engine of this vintage is far from fragile, and not difficult to do right, even for a production engine shop.

 

Which rod/cylinder had the issue?

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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When an engine starts to run away (race) I would normally simultaneously turn off the ignition and pull up on the pedal with my foot. Usually caused by a broken pull back spring or sometimes broken or sticking linkage.  I guess that is why they changed linkage so the carb goes to idle when something breaks.  After three times I now have two springs on my Pontiac.  Surely both both will not break at the same time.

I would also suspect some problem in the oil delivery to that rod or the tinning of the rod before babbitting.

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If you mean "spun babbitt" type bearings, and not spinning a bearing an insert type bearing, spun babbitt it is a process for using centrifugal force to apply molten babbitt material into a bearing, such as directly onto aluminum rod big end bearing surface. The centrical force is claimed to give a stronger bond. Not many shops that can do it anymore.

 

We have a forum member,  "Herm" that still does some rod bearings that way and has posted about the process, with pictures. 

 

Paul

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4 hours ago, Mongol said:

Not sure if the term is correct spun rod or spun bearing but wanted to know is it possible to fix just the damaged parts

 

How did you determine a rod bearing has spun? Have you torn the engine down to determine what parts need to be fixed or are you just hearing a knock? More information is needed about the engine.

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5 minutes ago, Mongol said:

I dropped the pan took the cap off I can pull the rod from the top just wondering if a removable bearing can be machined and installed

The question is poorly worded.

If you have babbitted rod you simply get it re-babbitted.

If the rod was machined to use a replaceable shell and you didn't damage the rod then it should be easy to change the shell.  If the rod is damaged then you either re-machine it or get another rod and machine it.

The other problem is why this rod lacked oil.  The other one's didn't self destruct.....why this one.

We need a little more clear information to be able to solve your dilemma.

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Welcome to the old car hobby. 

What the above folks were attempting to say is that an engine in not 'one piece'.  It is composed of many, many pieces that ALL must work and fit together to function properly. 

 

You stated that your engine has just 300 miles on it.  We have all assumed that means that EVERYTHING is all brand new. New, bearings, rings, valves, BUT also the crank was turned and the block was cleaned and all the oil passages were cleaned out. (etc, etc, etc) 

 

Your throttle stuck and now you are saying  that 'one thing' is bad (the rod bearing) What we are saying is that NO, in an engine it is never just 'one thing'. If ONE rod went bad, you MUST assume that ALL the rods also have a problem. Maybe 'just one' is knocking, but ALL must be removed and examined and each crank journal MUST be reevaluated for scoring or other damage. 

 

A new engine running wide open for a short time  (15-30 seconds) that was correctly built (properly machined, properly sized parts installed) should NOT suffer bearing failure. 

There MUST be other causes for the failure (loss of oil?) and quite likely other damage (spun bearings) 

 

Sometimes when a car fails there is one bad part that can be replaced. When an engine 'fails' you MUST look at everything inside. 

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Isnt a early 216 splash lubricated? I can easily see over reving the engine causing damage and like the others are saying it probly isnt limited to just one rod. Their might be only one making noise but woudnt it suck to fix that one and start driving the car and then another one starts to go bad a short time later? Better safe than sorry right? Maybe the shop that did the engine could take a look for you and make sure its all in shape.

 

Dont get discouraged. Everyone here has good intents. While it sounds like they are being hard on you they do want to make sure your engine gets fixed right and not just patched up which will lead to later problems. Stay with it (and us) and you will learn alot and your engine will be healthy again. After some time when your not upset about it all this will seem like common sense.

 

Good luck!

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35 minutes ago, Mongol said:

I dropped the pan took the cap off I can pull the rod from the top just wondering if a removable bearing can be machined and installed

 

The big question should be "what is the condition of the crankshaft?" on that cylinder. If you feel anything rough when you drag your fingernail across the rod journal you are probably looking at pulling the engine and replacing the crankshaft or having it reconditioned.  If you just stick a good rod in on a bad crankshaft you are looking at more problems not too far down the road.   As other have suggested, you should check everything while you are in there.

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6 hours ago, Frantz said:

Chevy 216?

I'd be talking with the folks that did the work... If they're a reputable shop they should make it right for you unless it was 300 miles and 10  years ago....

Even if a 10 yo job, if the shop is still in business let them help you to find out what the trouble causes where. They might already suspect what "Speedy" in the back forgot!

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15 minutes ago, Mongol said:

Bought it from a friend of a friend now he long gone what would be the fix can a newer style bearings be fitted and machined ?

Anything you can imagine can be accomplished if you sincerely undertake to make it so. I think maybe just find another rod on eBay or maybe NAPA store and bolt "er" up and try it out. You can find one fairly cheap, much cheaper than machining the old one. Your best bet is to follow the instructions that have been sincerely offered here on the forum.

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30 minutes ago, Mongol said:

Bought it from a friend of a friend now he long gone what would be the fix can a newer style bearings be fitted and machined ?

Maybe,...

Some spun babbitt rods can be machined to accept an insert,... that is,  if you can find the right size/width insert.

 

With some, the spun babbitt is quite thick and going to an insert gets tricky.

 

But you still need to know why it failed. A short duration stuck throttle, with no load on a good bearing, shouldn't damage  it. 

 

Paul 

Edited by PFitz (see edit history)
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The 216 Chevrolet's "splash oiling" is not what some of you probably think. Oil is squirted out of jets across the width of the oil pan. The dippers on the rods dip from those streams. A mis-aimed jet could easily result in one isolated rod bearing failure. Those jets need to be aimed properly when the engine is apart for rebuild. Usually this is done with a special tool for the purpose. Special tool or not, those streams need to be aimed so the dipper gets a squirt. If it doesn't, there's gonna be trouble.

 

Always use light oil in these engines (20W back in the day). If the oil is too heavy the squirters wont squirt far enough when the engine is cold. There are also troughs, but those don't help much if the oil is too thick.

 

There are 2 issues here others have already mentioned that could bite you. The first is that the bearing journal might not be round anymore. Check it with a micrometer from a whole bunch of different angles. If it isn't round no bearing will hold up long term. Years ago people did all sorts of things at the side of the road to complete their journey. If the journal isn't round, and it often isn't because the knocking often makes a flat spot, old stories about this usually end "Well, it got me home" or "And it almost got me home!". On the other hand, If the journal is still round, it is possible to polish the journal and then fit a new "bearing". Since the 216 has poured bearings in the rods, this generally means replacing the rod with a re-poured one. You can still find them on Ebay, but I would lean toward having yours re-babbitted if possible. That would likely take longer and cost more. If you don't re-babbitt and instead use an exchange rod, at least try to ensure that the new rod is about the same weight as the others in the engine.

 

The second issue is that there could be metal from the failure floating around in the engine. People often got away with fixing them back in the day as long as the journal was round, but not always. If it were mine, I would tear it all the way down and clean every internal surface and oil passage. IMHO doing anything else isn't worth the risk.

 

You really need to post pictures of the damage. The reason you aren't getting direct answers is that "spun bearing" is something that happens to engines with bearing insert shells. Typically when lubrication fails, the thin layer of babbitt on the insert goes away, and then the steel core of the insert welds itself to the bearing journal, and then the crank spins the insert, grinding out the hole in the rod (or block if a main bearing). Since 216s had poured babbitt in the rods instead of inserts, there should have been no insert to spin. Maybe it was converted to inserts?

 

Best of luck, and I hope you are able to fix it easily.

 

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, Mongol said:

Bought it from a friend of a friend now he long gone what would be the fix can a newer style bearings be fitted and machined ?

If that is the case you should have the whole engine opened and everything measured and checked.  Obviously no one at this time knows how or what was rebuilt by your friend's friend.  Do it right, once.

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Was it really rebuilt as we understand it? New bearings, ground crank, new pistons and piston pins, new rings, new valves and so on. Or was it just tuned up or some minor work done, like new rings? People use different terms for things (to hide something or) out of ignorance. Photos will help us determine what has been done.

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If you have a babbitt rod, and the crank pins have been ground, there is a good chance that the pin is Not damaged. If the rods were converted to inserts, there is a big chance the pins are damaged, to some extent.

 

So, with your accelerator being stuck, at very high, or pegged out RPM's, what has happened is the same as a high, RPM, speed shift, and you missed the shift. That will knock a rod out of anything.

 

I have seen it many times in the last 54 years.

 

The chance of getting a rod off e-Bay, and having it fit your pin, would be a crap shoot.

 

The boys are right, pull the rods, and check those and the pins.

 

I might still have some pictures of a spun poured rod, and the tools to align the oil squirt piping.

 

Thanks,

 

Herm.

 

 

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All good advice......there is no easy answer, you need to figure out the damage, and why it failed before you proceed. To be straight forward, trying to jam another rod in without pulling the engine is a marginal crap shoot, the hard way is usually the fastest and best repair........quick and dirty often comes back to bite you hard.......and fast.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Thank you all for your input I have a lot more insight now I’m gonna get pics to post ,the rod next to it towards the front of the car is also loose not as much as the 1st one the others seem to be okay dipp

ers are all the same direction 

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