2.5 turns lock-lock fast ratio steering boxes

[telriv]

2.5 turns lock-lock fast ratio rebuilt steering boxes. One year warranty with no mileage limit.

  In the past when you wanted to upgrade your vague steering with the box that came on our Rivs. or Full size cars you had NO choice but to use one of the big suppliers/rebuilders of steering boxes. Even the Rivs. with the faster ratio ( 15-1 or 3.25 turns lock-lock) can be improved upon with one of "My" rebuilt boxes. It makes a drastic improvement over what has been available in the past at a greatly reduced cost in comparison to what has been offered previously.  For the most part almost feels like a rack & pinion modern steering system that's standard on newer cars of today. Even though it will improve steering response with worn out suspension parts it is NOT a replacement for those parts, it will ONLY improve what you have. IE worn idler arm, center link, tie rod ends, shocks, springs, ball joints, sway bar links & bushings, strut rod/brake reaction rod bushings, rear panhard rod bushings, worn out front or rear suspension bushings, radial tires, correct alignment specs. etc.

   In the past for an upgrade you will have paid $750.00-$850.00 for this rebuild, even using your box as a core. The core cost was/is $150.00-$300.00. What your NOT TOLD upfront is that IF you don't return a fast ratio box you will not get your core $$$ back. Your not told this until the box is done & being returned or you even sent in your core for the conversion. So now that you've sent your core back or used your box for the conversion it will be an additional $150.00-$300.00 on top of what you were ALREADY quoted. Now the cost has risen to $900.00-$1150.00  How can a fast ratio be returned if your doing an upgrade????

   My boxes are $450.00+$100.00 core charge. Makes NO DIFF. if a fast ratio or not. The ONLY stipulation to this is I need to receive a core back for shipment back to the manufacturer within 30 days or else I lose the core $$$$. ALSO it has to be a rebuildable core. NOTHING that been sitting out in a field for years that's ALL RUSTED. You MUST remember that it needs to be a rebuildable core & be able to sell it to someone else in as nice a condition as you would expect your rebuilt should be. Added to this is shipping. $38.00 to myself from the manufacturer. $20.00 from myself to yourself & $20.00 to return the core to the original manufacturer. They WILL NOT drop ship to save the $20.00 because they will only ship to myself. For a grand total of $528.00. OR if you live close buy you can pick one up & save $20.00 shipping to you. I have figured out a way to save a considerable amount of shipping $$$ by using a LARGE Flat Rate Box which I line with some paneling to give the box some support which you can reuse to ship the box back to myself.  I have worked out all the specs. with them for almost a year before we were able to come up with what I feel is a drastic improvement in feel/steering response but keeping the steering feel as stock as possible. NO SPORT/very tight feeling. Just as close to a stock feel as is possible so you can now enjoy driving your Riv. or Full Size GM car from approx. '59-''76 & NOT lose that luxury car driving experience ( also fits others, call for applications) as a complete bolt-in swap requiring NO additional hoses, adapters or anything else.

  IF needed the "Rag" joints are readily available at just about ANY auto parts stores. They are 3 1/4" diameter.    NOT the smaller 3".

     I have sold these boxes to many & some to ROA members that have given their feedback. I encourage you to read their comments.

 

   A check made out to myself & mailed to:

 

Tom Telesco

12 Cook St.

Norwalk, Ct. 06853-1601

 

203-324-6045  If I'm not home leave a message & I WILL call you back.

 

Looking forward to helping you to improve the enjoyment of your Riv.

 

Tom T.

[KongaMan]

What is the gear ratio?   How many degrees of travel on the output shaft?

[telriv]

Here we go again.!!!!

[KongaMan]

They're simple questions that speak to the most important characteristic of the part.  Why the reluctance to answer?

[RivNut]

When this was a topic of discussion some time ago, I read a couple of articles dealing with this same topic. One that really stuck in my mind had to do with "quick ratio" boxes in Z28 Camaros.  To reduce the number of turns lock to lock, all Chevy did was to lengthen the pitman and idler arms.  Using the same arc of travel with a longer lever, will move the spindles farther with the same amount input.  If you want less travel in your steering wheel, just lengthen your pitman arm and match up the idler arm.  Gear ratios and degrees of travel be damned.  It's really just elementary geometry.

Edited November 18, 2018 by RivNut (see edit history)

[telriv]

   Because what your asking is impossible. Your train of thought needs to be brought into perspective. That's why I answered the way I did now & back when. AND, Ed just explained another example which I'm sure you will question just like you have done in the past. Corvettes did the same but added holes in the steering arms that were closer to speed up the ratio as there was no room with the Vette set-up to lengthen the pitman & idler arms so a hole was added on the spindle closer to the actual spindle.

   You just like pushing my buttons don't you. I'm not playing into your game & as far as ANY future responses to YOU I WILL NOT ANSWER.

Others have responded that have installed one of my boxes & they are VERY PLEASED!!!! So, put that in your hat & smoke it Mr. know it all.

 

 

Tom T.

[KongaMan]

 

37 minutes ago, RivNut said:

When this was a topic of discussion some time ago, I read a couple of articles dealing with this same topic. One that really stuck in my mind had to do with "quick ratio" boxes in Z28 Camaros.  To reduce the number of turns lock to lock, all Chevy did was to lengthen the pitman and idler arms.  Using the same arc of travel with a longer lever, will move the spindles farther with the same amount input.  If you want less travel in your steering wheel, just lengthen your pitman arm and match up the idler arm.  Gear ratios and degrees of travel be damned.  It's really just elementary geometry.

 

Theoretically, you could find another model with similar steering but longer pitman and idler arms and just swap those pieces.  Practically, it's not clear how well that would work, as you would end up shoving the centerlink forward, which would change the geometry and fitment of all the parts.

[RivNut]

6 minutes ago, KongaMan said:

 

 

Theoretically, you could find another model with similar steering but longer pitman and idler arms and just swap those pieces.  Practically, it's not clear how well that would work, as you would end up shoving the centerlink forward, which would change the geometry and fitment of all the parts.

The center link does nothing but the the two sides together. How could it's length change the geometry.  Does changing the length of a rack in a rack and pinion change its geometry.  You're either going to buy one or not. If it works, who cares about the details. Are you a customer or a skeptic?

[KongaMan]

5 minutes ago, telriv said:

   Because what your asking is impossible.

 

Impossible?  I'll walk you through it...

 

Measure the degrees of rotation for the input shaft.  You say it's 2.5 turns.   That's 540°.

Measure the degrees of rotation for the output shaft (typically around 77° for a stock 17.5:1 box).

Divide the first number by the second.  That's 540/77, or 7:1.

 

That's pretty frickin' fast.  Is that really what you're selling?  

[gungeey]

54 minutes ago, RivNut said:

When this was a topic of discussion some time ago, I read a couple of articles dealing with this same topic. One that really stuck in my mind had to do with "quick ratio" boxes in Z28 Camaros.  To reduce the number of turns lock to lock, all Chevy did was to lengthen the pitman and idler arms.  Using the same arc of travel with a longer lever, will move the spindles farther with the same amount input.  If you want less travel in your steering wheel, just lengthen your pitman arm and match up the idler arm.  Gear ratios and degrees of travel be damned.  It's really just elementary geometry.

 

All well and good.. so now I now have a 10 inch Idler/pitman arm (yeah, baby)...what do I hook it up to? gonna require a little or really a lot of custom mods to make that happen.

[gungeey]

7 minutes ago, RivNut said:

The center link does nothing but the the two sides together. How could it's length change the geometry.  Does changing the length of a rack in a rack and pinion change its geometry.  You're either going to buy one or not. If it works, who cares about the details. Are you a customer or a skeptic?

 Tom should offer Kongaman a 30 day money back guarantee to end the misery

[KongaMan]

2 minutes ago, RivNut said:

The center link does nothing but the the two sides together. How could it's length change the geometry.

 

Wasn't talking about changing the length of the centerlink at all, but rather the relationship between the centerlink and the other components.  As you change those relationships, you raise the possibility of binding and/or restricted travel.

 

2 minutes ago, RivNut said:

 You're either going to buy one or not. If it works, who cares about the details. Are you a customer or a skeptic?

 

I might be a customer for a known product.

 

And yeah, I do care about the details.  Why wouldn't I?  Do you buy based on promises and evasion?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gungeey]

2 minutes ago, KongaMan said:

 

Wasn't talking about changing the length of the centerlink at all, but rather the relationship between the centerlink and the other components.  As you change those relationships, you raise the possibility of binding and/or restricted travel.

 

 

I might be a customer for a known product.

 

And yeah, I do care about the details.  Why wouldn't I?  Do you buy based on promises and evasion?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The details: 2.5 turns lock to lock

How he gets there: Nunya. (none of your or my business)...call it Proprietory Software. Secret Recipe. Ancient Chinese Secret. That's why he's allowed to sell in and make a profit. HE"S the one that fggured it out... No disrespect..Steve

[KongaMan]

5 minutes ago, gungeey said:

The details: 2.5 turns lock to lock

That's not a detail; that's an irrelevance.

 

"2.5 turns" doesn't tell you a thing about the performance of the box.  Consider two boxes with 2.5 turns of rotation.  One has a 20:1 ratio.  The other has a 10:1 ratio.  Think they behave the same?  Do you want either in your car?

 

 

[Turbinator]

48 minutes ago, KongaMan said:

 

 

Theoretically, you could find another model with similar steering but longer pitman and idler arms and just swap those pieces.  Practically, it's not clear how well that would work, as you would end up shoving the centerlink forward, which would change the geometry and fitment of all the parts.

Mr.Konga Man, I purchased one of those rebuilt Saginaw 808 steering boxes from TelRiv. I can say the steering is more responsive with the replacement  steering box. The old box took right at 4 turns either right or left to lock. The new steering box only takes 2.5 turns to lock.

i put on new shocks and put in new rubber on the front sway bars and new rubber in the track bar.

A new front end alignment was also completed. All told: The car drives, steers, and rides significantly better. I highly recommend TelRiv’s steering box rebuild.

Red Riviera Bob

[gungeey]

1 hour ago, KongaMan said:

That's not a detail; that's an irrelevance.

 

"2.5 turns" doesn't tell you a thing about the performance of the box.  Consider two boxes with 2.5 turns of rotation.  One has a 20:1 ratio.  The other has a 10:1 ratio.  Think they behave the same?  Do you want either in your car?

 

 

Nope don't want either, the one I have works just right for me. I like that vague steering, gives me something to do besides wondering how many balls he puts to the worm or if it's 1lb ft or 1.5 lb ft effort plus or minus at the steering wheel.

Lingenfelter takes stock engines and puts them through their shop adding more hp and torgue while running pump gas all while coming with a warranty. If I  want to take it apart and see how they ported/polished and what style pistons they used etc to see how they achieved their advertised numbers...Well, that's ON ME.

A guy is selling a steering box that requires less arm swing to negotiate around a corner...do you want one? Sounds like they are going for around 400 bucks. Steve

 

 

[jsgun]

3 hours ago, gungeey said:

The details: 2.5 turns lock to lock

How he gets there: Nunya. (none of your or my business)...call it Proprietory Software. Secret Recipe. Ancient Chinese Secret. That's why he's allowed to sell in and make a profit. HE"S the one that fggured it out... No disrespect..Steve

 

This is where i'm at too. It's obviously a box with custom matched internals, built to spec. I wouldn't give any details other than lock to lock. My only other concern is if it kept the stock turning circle. I think RRB said in another post that it was the same radius. 

 

It's impressive that they're sold at that price point. Dirt track guys pay a lot more for custom boxes. If finances allow, I plan on getting one eventually.

[KongaMan]

I don't mean to belabor this, but if all you know is lock-to-lock, you don't know jack.  By itself, it is a meaningless number.  Let's look at different situations that illustrate this.  Suppose you want to know how the Steelers did today.  The only answer you get is "They scored 20 points."  Is that enough?  Wouldn't you want to know how many points the other team scored?  If I hand you a drink and tell you it has one shot of liquor in it, is that a strong drink or not?  Wouldn't it depend on whether it's in a shot glass or a beer glass filled with lemonade?

 

BTW, there's no secret to this.  You can change the ratio on your stock box by replacing two parts.

 

Look, there are a number of components in the steering system that define performance.  The ratio and travel of the box are but two of them.  However, given that none of the other components are changing, it is those two numbers which define how performance will be affected.  And yet, we know neither of them.  Seems a bit curious, dontcha think?

 

I'll also throw this out there: at 2.5 turns lock to lock and what is generally accepted to be a "quick" ratio of ~15:1, that gives you an output travel of 60°.  As previously mentioned, the stock 17.5:1 box has output travel of ~77°.  So the question that needs to be answered is "What is the range of motion permitted by the other steering components? ".  If the stock box can only travel through 60° because the spindles (or some other component(s)) prevent it from moving further, then it doesn't matter if the box can't go any further.  OTOH, if the stock box can travel through, say, 70° of motion when installed, then your turning radius has just changed due to a limitation of the box.  Now, maybe you wouldn't care -- but wouldn't you want to know?

 

Finally, I'd note this: it's puzzling that folks say, "I want a quick-ratio box, but I don't care what the ratio is."   The box is defined by the ratio; that is the fundamental descriptor used to differentiate between different boxes.  To say that the ratio doesn't matter is most peculiar. 

[Turbinator]

1 hour ago, jsgun said:

 

This is where i'm at too. It's obviously a box with custom matched internals, built to spec. I wouldn't give any details other than lock to lock. My only other concern is if it kept the stock turning circle. I think RRB said in another post that it was the same radius. 

 

It's impressive that they're sold at that price point. Dirt track guys pay a lot more for custom boxes. If finances allow, I plan on getting one eventually.

Gents, I understand basic solid and plane geometry. I did ok with trig.

I did not mention radius spec’s nor any spec for the steering box. The spec’s were not important to me because I do not understand the spec’s and how they relate to the steering of the car. I trusted what TelRiv told me. TelRiv provides the best knowledge he has to help. In my experience TelRiv’s  track record speaks for itself. I was simply very satisfied with products provided for dollars spent.

RRB

[Turbinator]

4 minutes ago, KongaMan said:

I don't mean to belabor this, but if all you know is lock-to-lock, you don't know jack.  By itself, it is a meaningless number.  Let's look at different situations that illustrate this.  Suppose you want to know how the Steelers did today.  The only answer you get is "They scored 20 points."  Is that enough?  Wouldn't you want to know how many points the other team scored?  If I hand you a drink and tell you it has one shot of liquor in it, is that a strong drink or not?  Wouldn't it depend on whether it's in a shot glass or a beer glass filled with lemonade?

 

BTW, there's no secret to this.  You can change the ratio on your stock box by replacing two parts.

 

Look, there are a number of components in the steering system that define performance.  The ratio and travel of the box are but two of them.  However, given that none of the other components are changing, it is those two numbers which define how performance will be affected.  And yet, we know neither of them.  Seems a bit curious, dontcha think?

 

I'll also throw this out there: at 2.5 turns lock to lock and what is generally accepted to be a "quick" ratio of ~15:1, that gives you an output travel of 60°.  As previously mentioned, the stock 17.5:1 box has output travel of ~77°.  So the question that needs to be answered is "What is the range of motion permitted by the other steering components? ".  If the stock box can only travel through 60° because the spindles (or some other component(s)) prevent it from moving further, then it doesn't matter if the box can't go any further.  OTOH, if the stock box can travel through, say, 70° of motion when installed, then your turning radius has just changed due to a limitation of the box.  Now, maybe you wouldn't care -- but wouldn't you want to know?

 

Finally, I'd note this: it's puzzling that folks say, "I want a quick-ratio box, but I don't care what the ratio is."   The box is defined by the ratio; that is the fundamental descriptor used to differentiate between different boxes.  To say that the ratio doesn't matter is most peculiar. 

Mr. Kong’s Man, we simply judge things differently. I do not ride, drive, or steer the spec’s. General specificstions to me are an indicator or guidelines of what you can expect. The performance was what I was after. I exchanged dollars for a product I believe would deliver what I wanted. One of the items was I wanted steering that had more road feel. Lock to lock, pitman arm radius : who cares?

It is true I know very little about the mechanics of a steering box on a car. What I do know is I now have a steering box I like much better at twice the price. 

RRB

[Turbinator]

Oh, by the way if you have one ounce of beverage alcohol for consumption in any size glass mixed with any potable fluid you have one ounce of beverage alcohol. Strong drink, good drink, watered down drink will depend on who is judging the drink. 

RRB

[RivNut]

Lock to lock to me simply means the number of revolutions it takes the steering wheel to move the front suspension from the full extent of one direction to the other.  The other elements in the suspension stop the spindle from more movement in either direction.  So, if I'm sitting behind the steering wheel and I'm trying to weasel into a parallel parking space and I only have to turn the steering 2-1/2 times to go from full left to full right, I  couldnt care less about the ratios in the box or anything else. All I care about is how mmuch effort I  need to input to accomplish my goal.  I want to enjoy driving  my car an make driving it as comfortable as possible.  If Tom says the box he sells is 2-1/2 then lock to lock, and thats what I'm after, then it's a good deal.  Kind of like when my wife drives her car.  She doesn't give a crap as to how much boost the turbo puts out or the ratios used to exert the boost.  The car starts, runs, and gets her where she needs to go and she's happy.

[Turbinator]

4 minutes ago, RivNut said:

Lock to lock to me simply means the number of revolutions it takes the steering wheel to move the front suspension from the full extent of one direction to the other.  The other elements in the suspension stop the spindle from more movement in either direction.  So, if I'm sitting behind the steering wheel and I'm trying to weasel into a parallel parking space and I only have to turn the steering 2-1/2 times to go from full left to full right, I  couldnt care less about the ratios in the box or anything else. All I care about is how mmuch effort I  need to input to accomplish my goal.  I want to enjoy driving  my car an make driving it as comfortable as possible.  If Tom says the box he sells is 2-1/2 then lock to lock, and thats what I'm after, then it's a good deal.  Kind of like when my wife drives her car.  She doesn't give a crap as to how much boost the turbo puts out or the ratios used to exert the boost.  The car starts, runs, and gets her where she needs to go and she's happy.

Ed, makes sense to me. This particular topic reminds me of banging my head against a dead horse. Still on the topic of steering boxes Tel Riv has is I came out smelling like gang busters on the deal.

Stay Well,

RRB

BTW, I was scanning some info regarding record sales of commercial music.The author used no less than 4-5 statistical models to show, “ White Christmas” by Irving Berlin is the best selling record of all time. I can believe that.

[jsgun]

1 hour ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Gents, I understand basic solid and plane geometry. I did ok with trig.

I did not mention radius spec’s nor any spec for the steering box. The spec’s were not important to me because I do not understand the spec’s and how they relate to the steering of the car. I trusted what TelRiv told me. TelRiv provides the best knowledge he has to help. In my experience TelRiv’s  track record speaks for itself. I was simply very satisfied with products provided for dollars spent.

RRB

Ah ok, I mis-remembered. I do a lot of reading on the internet, sometimes sources get jumbled. While on the subject, does the car seem to turn the same at full lock, like when you're parking?

 

Back when I was throwing cubic dollars at my mustang, I was interested in converting it to rack and pinion. The big issue was that with every kit, there was always a reduction in turning radius. In california, the land of the endless parking lot, it really factors in for me.

[telriv]

Steering radius remains the SAME.

[gungeey]

8 hours ago, KongaMan said:

I don't mean to belabor this, but if all you know is lock-to-lock, you don't know jack.  By itself, it is a meaningless number.  Let's look at different situations that illustrate this.  Suppose you want to know how the Steelers did today.  The only answer you get is "They scored 20 points."  Is that enough?  Wouldn't you want to know how many points the other team scored?  If I hand you a drink and tell you it has one shot of liquor in it, is that a strong drink or not?  Wouldn't it depend on whether it's in a shot glass or a beer glass filled with lemonade?

 

BTW, there's no secret to this.  You can change the ratio on your stock box by replacing two parts.

 

Look, there are a number of components in the steering system that define performance.  The ratio and travel of the box are but two of them.  However, given that none of the other components are changing, it is those two numbers which define how performance will be affected.  And yet, we know neither of them.  Seems a bit curious, dontcha think?

 

I'll also throw this out there: at 2.5 turns lock to lock and what is generally accepted to be a "quick" ratio of ~15:1, that gives you an output travel of 60°.  As previously mentioned, the stock 17.5:1 box has output travel of ~77°.  So the question that needs to be answered is "What is the range of motion permitted by the other steering components? ".  If the stock box can only travel through 60° because the spindles (or some other component(s)) prevent it from moving further, then it doesn't matter if the box can't go any further.  OTOH, if the stock box can travel through, say, 70° of motion when installed, then your turning radius has just changed due to a limitation of the box.  Now, maybe you wouldn't care -- but wouldn't you want to know?

 

Finally, I'd note this: it's puzzling that folks say, "I want a quick-ratio box, but I don't care what the ratio is."   The box is defined by the ratio; that is the fundamental descriptor used to differentiate between different boxes.  To say that the ratio doesn't matter is most peculiar. 

 

It's more akin to saying "Bartender, that's a great tasting martini, exactly what is the percentage of alcohol in it, and what is the cubic area of the olive in centimeters?" LOL

 

[gungeey]

8 hours ago, KongaMan said:

I don't mean to belabor this, but if all you know is lock-to-lock, you don't know jack.  By itself, it is a meaningless number.  Let's look at different situations that illustrate this.  Suppose you want to know how the Steelers did today.  The only answer you get is "They scored 20 points."  Is that enough?  Wouldn't you want to know how many points the other team scored?  If I hand you a drink and tell you it has one shot of liquor in it, is that a strong drink or not?  Wouldn't it depend on whether it's in a shot glass or a beer glass filled with lemonade?

 

BTW, there's no secret to this.  You can change the ratio on your stock box by replacing two parts.

 

Look, there are a number of components in the steering system that define performance.  The ratio and travel of the box are but two of them.  However, given that none of the other components are changing, it is those two numbers which define how performance will be affected.  And yet, we know neither of them.  Seems a bit curious, dontcha think?

 

I'll also throw this out there: at 2.5 turns lock to lock and what is generally accepted to be a "quick" ratio of ~15:1, that gives you an output travel of 60°.  As previously mentioned, the stock 17.5:1 box has output travel of ~77°.  So the question that needs to be answered is "What is the range of motion permitted by the other steering components? ".  If the stock box can only travel through 60° because the spindles (or some other component(s)) prevent it from moving further, then it doesn't matter if the box can't go any further.  OTOH, if the stock box can travel through, say, 70° of motion when installed, then your turning radius has just changed due to a limitation of the box.  Now, maybe you wouldn't care -- but wouldn't you want to know?

 

Finally, I'd note this: it's puzzling that folks say, "I want a quick-ratio box, but I don't care what the ratio is."   The box is defined by the ratio; that is the fundamental descriptor used to differentiate between different boxes.  To say that the ratio doesn't matter is most peculiar. 

 

"What a game, the Steelers came back and won 20-16 against Jacksonville!"

 

"Really? How fast does the fullback run in the 40 yard dash?"

[Pat Curran]

9 hours ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Ed, makes sense to me. This particular topic reminds me of banging my head against a dead horse. Still on the topic of steering boxes Tel Riv has is I came out smelling like gang busters on the deal.

Stay Well,

RRB

BTW, I was scanning some info regarding record sales of commercial music.The author used no less than 4-5 statistical models to show, “ White Christmas” by Irving Berlin is the best selling record of all time. I can believe that.

White Christmas is in fact the largest selling song in music history.  The publishing rights are where the big money is and those rights change hands from time to time.  At one time,  Paul McCartney owned the rights to White Christmas and he still may own them.  

[RivNut]

5 hours ago, gungeey said:

 

"What a game, the Steelers came back and won 20-16 against Jacksonville!"

 

I had to watch a regional game (Cowboys vs. Falcons) that was a real dud.

[Turbinator]

21 hours ago, RivNut said:

I had to watch a regional game (Cowboys vs. Falcons) that was a real dud.

 

21 hours ago, RivNut said:

I had to watch a regional game (Cowboys vs. Falcons) that was a real dud.

Ed, did you view the game and made sure the playing field had the correct dimensions? Just having fun. No sarcasm intended.

RRB

[telriv]

I've sold more than one box to other ROA members besides RRB.    Does anyone else have any comments to add positive or negative???

I really would like to know how everything worked for you in your particular case.   IF nec. I can see about making the nec. changes to help accommodate yours & others experiences/installations.

 

 

Tom T.

 

 

[RivNut]

18 minutes ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

 

Ed, did you view the game and made sure the playing field had the correct dimensions? Just having fun. No sarcasm intended.

RRB

The dimensions looked appropriate but the ratio of running plays to pass plays is still a little mind boggling until I can get some specific information. Perhaps that's why one team kept moving to the right all the time.  Unknown ratios can really mess with your mind.

 

Unlike last night's Chiefs vs Rams game. Where both teams ran and passed left and right equally with very few problems or adjustments.  Must have been known ratios by both benches.

[Turbinator]

On 11/19/2018 at 1:34 AM, telriv said:

Steering radius remains the SAME.

Outstanding analytics. I don’t see much team blocking any longer. Seems like the QB says in the huddle ,  Ends go long and get open, running backs see if you can get open over the middle. Everybody block! On two!”

RRB

[gungeey]

I need to know how much influence the decibel level of the crowd has on the outcome of the game before I buy tickets.

[RockinRiviDad]

 

You guys are crazy!! Haha

[EmTee]

I found this article while looking for a link to the one currently in the December issue of Hemmings Muscle Machines (HMM).

 

http://jimshea.corvettefaq.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/AF-CarFastRatioGearBeingRevised15AP2012.pdf

 

If you are a subscriber to HMM, there's a table on page 66 that lists specifications for some of the popular Saginaw boxes - including degrees of Pitman arm travel.  The article is focused on GM A-bodies, but the 800 and 600 series boxes will interchange.  The article in the link above is very comprehensive and also talks about making flow and pressure modifications to the original PS pump that may be needed to increase flow to keep up with the new box ratio.

 

Another interesting side-effect mentioned in this article that hasn't come up in this discussion yet is that since the number of steering wheel turns is reduced, the steering column turn signal cancellers may no longer function as they used to, since the cancelling cam was designed for the slower ratio (greater degrees of wheel movement).  So, you may want to consider adding one of those extra-loud signal flashers at the same time... 

 

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/loud-turn-signal-flashers-who-makes-them.933704/

[telriv]

Has NO affect on our cars of the 60's-70's. EVERYTHING works exactly the same as designed.

[Turbinator]

March 7 drove 63 Red Riviera with TT’s rebuilt steering box to Philadelphia and back Lutherville Md. Total mileage 203 miles.

The steering box Tom rebuilt satisfied me to no end. Easy interstate driving. I did not have to concentrate on keeping the automobile in the lane. Fun drive with satisfying steering, handling, and ride.

Turbinator

[SwedeDownUnderR63]

It is funny how we all perceive reality. The 63 that I had in Sweden in the 70’s had a rather small (10”?) grant steering wheel and “mag” wheels that made it sitt lower than normal, it felt perfect on the road with excellent feeling in the steering.

The 63 I have today got really good after I installed Bilstein’s shocks and new H2 option springs with a great road feeling in the original steering wheel.

Neither car had, as far as I know, a rebuilt steering box. Both cars where/is equipped with new excellent radial tires and perform great on the road. I can’t see any reason to upgrade the steering box on my current car as it sits so nice on the road, almost like a modern car but with the great feeling that only a Buick can give you.

I am glad that others are happy with their upgrade but I have to say that my car drives better than any early to mid 60’s American car that I have had the pleasure to drive.

[RivNut]

When I bought my '63 back in '82, I took it for the mandatory test drive and while driving it on the multi-patched country asphalt road, I told my wife "The first thing I'll have to do is get the front end rebuilt."  I took it to a shop and the guy checked it out and told be that before I had him do anything to it, I should get rid of the bias tires and put a really good set of radial tires on it.  I took his advice and never went back to see him other than to thank him for his honesty.  I drove it another 18 years always with really good tires on it and never once had to do anything to the front end.