1940 Buick Super Restoration

[Spinneyhill]

Of course it is. How dopey of me.

 

I have always put the drum on with the axle dry. I want the movement to be in the bearing, not between the bearing and axle. Am I wrong again?

[1940Super]

19 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

Of course it is. How dopey of me.

 

I have always put the drum on with the axle dry. I want the movement to be in the bearing, not between the bearing and axle. Am I wrong again?

My apologies I was just stating what it was and I was confused as to what you were getting at. Maybe other models/makes you do keep it dry but the 1940 manual states: 

"When inspecting or replacing front wheel bearings, it should be determined that the inner race is free to revolve on the steering knuckle. Polishing steering knuckle and applying bearing lubricant will afford clearance and prevent rust forming between race and knuckle. The bearing inner races are designed to creep on knuckles in order to afford a constantly changing load contact"

 

I dont have any experience in old cars apart from this 1940 Buick so if I read something in the manual i just assume its standard practice for other cars of the era but I have been learning Buick tended to do alot of things differently from other manufacturers 

 

 

[Spinneyhill]

Thank you. Something new for me.

[Bloo]

It should be greased a little or it could rust from condensation, and that could get in the bearings. There is also a cavity in the hub between the wheel bearings. Some cars want grease packed in there, others explicitly don't, but either way it should be coated with enough grease to prevent rust.

[1940Super]

51 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

Thank you. Something new for me.

We both learned something 🙂. What car do you have?

 

Btw as for the different lengths of the drag link springs I tested the springs by applying wieght and measuring the travel distance. Converting the measurements of the springs to a percentage they were very close. I added the difference of length to the spring stop by welding on some more round steel. Then tightened up plug in the rod until the stops bottomed out and backed off the specified 3 to 3.5 turns. Only difference being the plug sticks out about a 1/4 inch before that there was plenty of thread to allow that. 

[1940Super]

Repainted the rims and added the silver stripes. First attempt was with a brush, using a jack to keep the brush steady and turning the wheel on the axle as the paint was applied. Started off okay but then the paint would thin out on the brush and more paint on the brush needed and was difficult keeping a consistent width from stopping to starting again. Even worse for the thinner outer lines. Decided to go with paint marker pens and was able to do a complete rotation of the wheel with a much more consistent width. Sprayed a clear coat over the top. 

Top left was using brush for wider line. Bottom were done with the marker pens

End result

The before photo

[1940Super]

The tyres are about 20-25 years old. Tread barely worn. Should I be worried about the rubber deteriorating?

Is it possible to hide tyre weights under the metal trim? 

[Gary Best]

1. Very much so , max for tires is 12 years . Start going bad after 6 year years. 20 year old tyres very dangerous. It's the rubber that goes bad just setting.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Gary Best (see edit history)

[39BuickEight]

Depends on the type of tire, and how they were cared for.  Usually not a good idea, but good bias tires kept indoors can last a very long time.

[1940Super]

23 hours ago, Gary Best said:

1. Very much so , max for tires is 12 years . Start going bad after 6 year years. 20 year old tyres very dangerous. It's the rubber that goes bad just setting.

Thanks, i will definitely look at getting new ones. Would be a disaster to have a crash after restoring a car because the old tyres were kept

[1940Super]

21 hours ago, 39BuickEight said:

Depends on the type of tire, and how they were cared for.  Usually not a good idea, but good bias tires kept indoors can last a very long time.

You are probably right. They have been indoors the whole time, I was driving on them 7 years ago however i dont think it's worth the risk to continue using them now

[Spinneyhill]

Tires deteriorate most quickly on the inside. Oxygen is what does it. UV has some effect, but it is mostly oxidation that deteriorates tires. We have had this discussion on these fora before. Ask the www about it.

 

On the inside, the pressure is over two atmospheres, whereas on the outside it is one, so there is more oxygen inside.

 

I have recently replaced my tires, mainly because they were too hard to work with and being oversize, I decided was a bit hard on the old 3.5" locking ring rims.

[Larry Schramm]

1 hour ago, Spinneyhill said:

Tires deteriorate most quickly on the inside. Oxygen is what does it. UV has some effect, but it is mostly oxidation that deteriorates tires. We have had this discussion on these fora before. Ask the www about it.

 

On the inside, the pressure is over two atmospheres, whereas on the outside it is one, so there is more oxygen inside.

 

I have recently replaced my tires, mainly because they were too hard to work with and being oversize, I decided was a bit hard on the old 3.5" locking ring rims.

 

I have a question,  unless you put pure nitrogen in the tires on installation and even then the air in the tire will still have some oxygen, the makeup of the atmosphere is about by volume, dry air contains 78.09% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.04% carbon, how can you have more oxygen in the inside of the tire than on the outside? 

 

The air is at just a higher pressure. usually 2-3 atmospheres which is in the 30-45 psi or about 200-300 kpa. 

 

Higher moisture content in the air might change it a little bit, but I do not think much.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

2 atmospheres = 2 x as much air in the same space (remember you added air to make the pressure rise?) = 2x as much oxygen and pressure will force the oxygen further into the tire compounds.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

7 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

2 atmospheres = 2 x as much air in the same space (remember you added air to make the pressure rise?) = 2x as much oxygen and pressure will force the oxygen further into the tire compounds.

 

Yes, but does it not push 2 x as much nitrogen into the tire compounds also which is 78% of the pressurized air?

Edited May 21, 2019 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Gary Best]

When you replace your tires , I recommend filling with nitrogen as that will help extend the life of the rubber. Still will not last forever but helps. As Larry said it's the oxygen that does a lot of the damage . Also UV rays . 

[Spinneyhill]

8 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

 

Yes, but does it not push 2 x as much nitrogen into the tire compounds also which is 78% of the pressurized air? 

It is the oxygen that causes oxidation of the tire. 2 x as much oxygen = 2 x as much oxidation. Nitrogen doesn't prevent it. Filling your tires with nitrogen just removes the oxygen.

 

A little quote for you from https://www.thoughtco.com/the-science-of-tire-aging-3234377:

“Tires are primarily degrading from the inside-out, due [to] permeation and reaction of the pressurized oxygen within the tire structure, with rates proportional to temperature.” - Summary of NHTSA Tire Aging Test Development Research

 

Tire aging is an issue of oxidation. As rubber is exposed to oxygen, it dries out and becomes stiffer, leading to cracking. The issue is primarily about how the inner, “wedge” layers of rubber oxidize."

 

[Morgan Wright]

On the inside of tires, the pressure is 3 atmospheres not 2. Gauge pressure is 2, plus one is 3.

 

Gauge pressure of 30 means 45 inside and 15 outside.

[Spinneyhill]

Of course it is! Thank you.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

You guys are SO smart!

 

  Ben

[Gary W]

On 5/19/2019 at 9:36 AM, 1940Super said:

is it possible to hide tyre weights under the metal trim? 

 

When I had my new tires mounted, the service man really wanted not to have weights on the outside of the wheel for aesthetics.  But he also told me that the tire balance will be much better if the weights are applied to both the outer and inner rims, so I had the weights installed where they would function best,  both on the outer and inner aspect of the wheel.  When all done, and that blue stuff cleaned off the new tires, I simply painted the weights black, and visually they disappear.  

 

I really like your pin striping!  Nice job!

 

After painting the weights, installing the hubcap and beauty ring, the weights kinda disappear.

 

 

Before and after.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the link to that day:

 

 

[1940Super]

Thanks @Gary W.

 

I didn't think to paint the weights black. You barely notice them

[1940Super]

6 months passed without making any progress on car due to work commitments. Last weekend the engine was reunited with the frame. I decided to lift it all assembled including gearbox except for removing the generator and starter for anchor points. Minus the weight of the frame and chains the weight was about 304kg(670lbs). 

[1940Super]

[kgreen]

That's quite an elaborate weight distribution device you created to lift and set the engine and trans.  Every little bit of progress helps.  I see that you already have new brake lines in, too.  Good work.

[1940Super]

I have a new exhaust system to install but I'm missing some of the original brackets front of the muffler. In the workshop manual it shows the series 50 having a long single sided bracket but then the master parts book says the 50 series has a clamping from both sides similar to the rear. I'm thinking the workshop manual is correct but can anybody confirm? @kgreen I hope you can assist here as your car should have the same brackets. 

From workshop manual. Circled in blue is the long bracket and another bracket at the front that I am also missing. 

master parts book pictorial. Shows the long bracket as being for the 40 series

[Morgan Wright]

On 5/20/2019 at 6:09 PM, Spinneyhill said:

Tires deteriorate most quickly on the inside. Oxygen is what does it. UV has some effect, but it is mostly oxidation that deteriorates tires. We have had this discussion on these fora before. Ask the www about it.

 

On the inside, the pressure is over two atmospheres, whereas on the outside it is one, so there is more oxygen inside.

 

I have recently replaced my tires, mainly because they were too hard to work with and being oversize, I decided was a bit hard on the old 3.5" locking ring rims.

 

 

I worked at a tire shop when I was young. Tires are never deteriorated on the inside. Take any old dry rotted worn to shreds tire, remove it from the rim, and the inside looks like new rubber. People who say tires rot from the inside never looked at the inside of a tire. Dry rot is on the outside.

[1940Super]

12 hours ago, kgreen said:

That's quite an elaborate weight distribution device you created to lift and set the engine and trans.  Every little bit of progress helps.  I see that you already have new brake lines in, too.  Good work.

Thank you Ken, I simply welded up a rectangular frame and attached lifting eyelets to it. Then clamped unistrut to the frame and bolted to an engine leveler to adjust the angle when lining up with the spline. Worked out well. Next thing to work on is fitting the new brass fittings on the oil lines i had you send over and then the exhaust. I remember you saying you documented the exahust brackets on that chassis you bought. Could you send some photos of the front brackets please

Matt

 

[kgreen]

Let's see if this works.  The following is a QR code that allows you access to my file.  This doc is a photo journal of a 1940 series 71 frame that purchased, principally to have the engine.  I managed several other great parts from it.  The car from which this chassis was from was last registered in 1952 but sat on a dirt floor barn that eventually collapsed, entrapping the car.  You should be able to download this 74 page doc in Microsoft Word format.  Look at pages 65 to 70 for exhaust bracket details.

 

or this:

 

https://us.workplace.datto.com/filelink/37f60-4298234d-d7176d8fff-2

Edited January 31, 2020 by kgreen (see edit history)

[kgreen]

If that doesn't work, PM me with your email address and I'll try to transfer the file privately.  I think you wanted details of the front hanger, but I also have a 1940 Super series 51 that I can get more photos from for you.  I've found proper hangers on most cars that I've looked at ad located fore and aft of the muffler to be accurate.  I found that the last hanger on the tailpipe to have been replaced with a universal and mostly incorrect hanger. 

[1940Super]

Ken that document you created is amazing for detail. I look through the whole thing and picked up other little details too. When I get time I'll add my own detail notes to it and send it back to you. As for the bracket at the front muffler its more like what the Shop Manual shows as the 40s and 60s series. I haven't had any luck trying to find NOS brackets except for the tail pipe so it's something I'm going to have to make myself. Yes please send me photos of the series 51. Many thanks

[kgreen]

Matt, we've lost track of you.  What's your progress?  Could it be that I got ahead of you?

[Bob Petters]

Looking for the interior light lens for the 2 lamps to go on the back of the front seat of the 1940 Super 4 door convertible.  41 is probably the same and is the same for Olds, Buick, Caddy? Any help out there?  A source for these 2 lens?

Bob

 

[MCHinson]

Bob, 

 

Hate to contribute to hijacking the original thread but is this what you need?

https://bobsautomobilia.com/shop/lamps-bulbs/1940-49-convertible-coupe-dome-light-lens-dl-409c/