Dave Fields

collector cars in California fire

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Makes me wonder how many vintage collector cars have disappeared this year considering all the fires, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes earth quacks, sink holes and other disasters we've been seeing more and more of. 

 

?Is this becoming the norm?

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5 hours ago, Doug Novak said:

Makes me wonder how many vintage collector cars have disappeared this year considering all the fires, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes earth quacks, sink holes and other disasters we've been seeing more and more of. 

 

?Is this becoming the norm?

I take this into account when everyone keeps saying there won't be anyone around that still wants our old cars.  I see constant coverage of disasters with lots of destroyed old cars.  The supply keeps going down so at some point the price will stabalize or increase as demand catches up and possibly surpasses it.  That with sheer numbers of people on the earth.  If only 1 percent of the population had an interest at all in cars today and in 20 years , still only 1 percent have interest,  that is more people.  It's basic math. Except for some mustangs the bronco,   57 Chevy and model A-32 Fords,  they aren't making new ones of most makes. 

 

On another note I wish they would stop having those fires out west.  all that contribution to global warming is freezing the east to death.  15 degrees below normal many days this week in our forecast and the long range doesn't look any better. We aren't even suppose to be above freezing a couple of days this week.  I just put the chains and plow on the tractor as we have 3 inches of snow on the ground that won't melt even in the sun. 

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Unconfirmed but heard on social media that the 1948 Norman Timbs Special Buick Streamliner was lost in the Malibu fire today 

 

46F8E012-AE16-40FB-97B3-2C8BCA0F9C1E.jpeg

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MrEarl, I hope you are mistaken. Rodders Journal did a spread on the restored car and it was spectacular, one of a kind.

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trimcar: forest mismanagement has been a huge issue in not only California, but also Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado and Texas. In New Mexico, areas are being cleaned up of excess trees and underbrush. One such area had some 300 collector cars in wood buildings with tinder right up to the doors. IN addition to drought, there have been serious beetle infestations that have killed thousands of acres of woodland. On a VMCCA tour this summer in northern Colorado, all we saw were dead trees. In some areas, people are allowed to cut them down for firewood, but in others, the EPA types refuse to allow this pruning of DEAD trees. I do feel the picture I posted is worthy of a prize. I m going to see if it can be enlarged,  if the pixals are not  too small.

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Mr Earl i too hope that report is a mistake

I know  that we are all car crazys and love our stuff 

and i say the next with that understanding

most of those cars will be missed but were probably insured and many will get something back 

but you really have to feel for the people who have lost everything houses/business

and they might never recover or it will take many years for them to get back to normal

where i live we went through SANDY in 2012, I personally didn't do to bad but there are people in my area who still are not back in their homes

Its just a shame,  and GOD BLESS those who didn't make it 

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I lost everything in a house fire in 1982.  We lost two dogs and our  old family photo albums. Everything else is just stuff. 

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The amount of hours invested in this premium car collection to have these vehicles restored to the mint condition that most were in at the time of the fire must of been enormous as the collection lost was very impressive. Each vehicle destroyed was such an iconic automobile. Before the fire the Peterson Museum would have moved its existing inventory to have been able to exhibit any of these gems in their museum. I feel very sad for the owner and can't imagine how painful his loss must be and how such an important part of his life has been reduced to ashes in a matter of minutes.   This fire is truly a catastrophic event for so many people. 

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I've known collectors who purposely don't keep everything in the same place just in case of a tragedy like this or a storm or zoning change, what have you.

Might be a good thought if you can do it - at least you'd have another place to go even if it was just a rented garage the next town over.

Best wishes to all involved particularly those trying to help fight this monster fire!

☹️

 

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Did anyone see the video from the Paradise fire with the '57 Nomad and '55 (?) Pontiac Safari (2 door wagon) that were completely destroyed? Pretty sad.... :( 

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I'm a firm believer in driving your classic but when I see this heartbreaking story it makes me wish they were all in a highly secured hands off museum.

What a shame on so many human levels...

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Unfortunately in drought conditions like California is seeing for the last several years almost anything can fuel a wildfire. Blaming poor forest management  is probably a bit misguided. Looking at photo's of Paradise Cali. numerous structures are burned to the foundation and nearby trees are untouched. The southern fires are probably burning more grass than anything. Short of denuding large swatches of costal and near costal inland California to sandy desert if the conditions are right there will be catastrophic fires. Large expanses of drought stricken lands plus high winds and a source of ignition are a combination that is far more powerful than all the firefighter's and aerial tankers in the world.

 

Greg in British Columbia, where we have a serious wildfire problem as well. 

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)

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How about a foolproof rooftop sprinkler system? As it is now it's required to have a sprinkler in the ceiling of your kitchen in case you start a grease fire on your stove; but that does no help when embers land on top of your roof.

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I understand that California has limited budgets for fire fighting and for fire prevention. They are raiding the prevention budget, now, to pay for the emergency. I think they did that once or twice before.

 

Its a Euro-American thing.

https://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/science/wildfires-are-essential-the-forest-service-embraces-a-tribal-tradition-20170403

 

Bernie

 

 

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10 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

I understand that California has limited budgets for fire fighting and for fire prevention. They are raiding the prevention budget, now, to pay for the emergency. I think they did that once or twice before.

 

Its a Euro-American thing.

https://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/science/wildfires-are-essential-the-forest-service-embraces-a-tribal-tradition-20170403

 

Bernie

 

 

 

Bernie,

They are brush fires, not forest fires..... 

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4 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

Unfortunately in drought conditions like California is seeing for the last several years almost anything can fuel a wildfire. Blaming poor forest management  is probably a bit misguided. Looking at photo's of Paradise Cali. numerous structures are burned to the foundation and nearby trees are untouched. The southern fires are probably burning more grass than anything. Short of denuding large swatches of costal and near costal inland California to sandy desert if the conditions are right there will be catastrophic fires. Large expanses of drought stricken lands plus high winds and a source of ignition are a combination that is far more powerful than all the firefighter's and aerial tankers in the world.

 

Greg in British Columbia, where we have a serious wildfire problem as well. 

 

Trees are probably not untouched but a large number will probably survive. I haven't been to the Paradise area so I can't say for sure, but lots of that western slope of the mountains at that elevation in California are covered with live, scrub or valley oak and manzanita. The manzanita is basically a torch waiting to be lit. The oak are generally fire resistant, they will lose their leaves during a fire but leaf back after the winter rains. I don't think that any of the California native oak species have significant commercial value. Definitely a "fire ecology" area as is most of California that isn't actually too arid to have enough plants to burn.

 

1 hour ago, John348 said:

 

Bernie,

They are brush fires, not forest fires..... 

 

+1 (or maybe +10)

 

I used to live in the area affected by the Woolsey Fire. There is some coast live oak and valley oak and sycamore in the longer, wetter drainages but mostly that land is chaparral. The native sage, chamise and buckwheat are, again, fire ecology species and can come back pretty quickly after a fire as they have fairly deep root burls that survive most fires.

 

In the higher mountains there are pine and fir. Only about 3% of the actual forest in California is managed by the state. The biggest owner/manager with about 57% of the acreage is the US Government with the rest in private hands.

 

The forest fuel situation is pretty bad for a number of reasons including but not limited to:

  • 100+ years of Federal and state policy to fight all fires. That has resulted in lots of underbrush, etc. that provides tinder and acts as ladders for fires to get into the crowns of the trees.
  • Lots of people moving into the "wild land interface".
  • Drought/climate change has weakened most of the trees, brush and scrub through out the area.

Current USFS policy, at least in the forest I do volunteer work in, is to remove undergrowth and to thin trees by removing the smaller ones.

 

Brush can be burned out with "prescribed burns" but that requires a lot of things to come together (away from structures and private property, appropriate moisture content in the fuels, appropriate weather, available personnel, budget, etc.). So even if an area is a candidate for a prescribed burn it can take years for everything to come together to make it happen especially in a prolonged drought where the fuel moisture is too low for years on end.

 

Selective thinning of the smaller trees is something that a commercial logger doesn't want to bid on as there isn't really any commercial value so the bids come in high, etc. A commercial operator would rather take down the bigger trees, not the smaller ones. But just word that the forest service is planning to request bids for tree removal brings out locals who think they are going to clear cut the everything including the large trees. So there needs to be lots of public outreach and education before they can get community buy in. Usually the issue is the locals in or near the affected area, the bigger environmental groups understand the ecology of the area enough to agree with what the Forest Service wants to do (remove the low fuels and remove the fuel ladders that allow fires to get into the tree crowns).

 

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Sorry, I didn't say what I meant clearly. I intended to say some nearby trees. Certainly quite a few trees are burned. But the fire behavior is often quite erratic . A single house is sometimes untouched while several nearby will be totally gone. Town sites such as Paradise are probably not part of any forestry management.  And often a great part of the attraction of this sort of location is the feeling of living very close to the forest.  But we should never forget that serious fires have been part of this ecosystem for hundreds of thousands of years. 

  I live in a quite similar area of mixed forest and cleared farmland. I am far enough North that the fire hazard season is limited to July -August- September. But during the dry part of the year fire awareness is vital.

Greg

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