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1925 Fuel tank and screen


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I decided to exchange my fuel tank for the 1927 one I got from the Handleman several years ago. I had it cleaned, all the holes soldered up and coated inside. (the top side was like Swiss cheese). When I pulled it out of the box I had it stored in the coal cellar it was covered with surface rust. Again, most of this year we had very high humidity. I think the shop just painted the outside with the black wash they use on radiators. So a lot more prep work before I can get it primed and painted.

 In the meantime, I finally replaced the in-tank filter with the one I made up.

 Back to work:

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Larry,

Let me give you some free time and money saving advice.  When you paint that tank - use the kind of paint that is not bothered by this crap that tries to pass as fuel.  Trust me on this and ask me just how it is that I know this?.

 

Terry Wiegand

Out Doo Dah Way

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Larry, My 24-45 tank had some pin holes after I "cleaned" the inside, so I stripped the outside looking for more, but only found 2 on the bottom.  I DA'd the outside with 80 grit sandpaper, and I am going to paint the tank with a brush and use rustoleum gloss black (which I know is not even fuel resistant) , which should make it easy to touch up later if I have more leaks to fix or spills during fill ups.

 

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I was thinking about trying this stuff to try and remove some of the surface rust from the inside.  The liquid, not the gel

 

https://www.eastwood.com/rust-remover-eastwood-rust-dissolver.html

 

I had tried vinegar, but after many flushings with water, it seems I have just as much rust as before.  I am leery about coatings on the inside of the tank, based on all the stories here about following proper prep and procedures, and still ending up with the coating lifting and floating around inside the tank.

 

I recently tried to renumber the in tank gauge on my 27-25 and coat it with various fuel proof coatings, all in vain.  They all washed off after the first drive, so my gauge face is blank now with just the needle to view.  Oh well.

 

I had heard about reproduction gauge faces on Ebay at about $400, if they ever come up again and I have an extra few hundreds kicking around I might consider it, but it would be a hard pill to swallow.

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Don:

 I was afraid to get more aggressive with sanding even though I did go over with # 80 on my DA also. I coated it with a rust reformer to get some of the still visible pits. This is a SEM product to give the rusty areas a prime-able surface. 3 coats are recommended. The problem of extra work comes because the coating only reacts to the rust. Then the rest of the areas have to be scrubbed and sanded clean or the top coats will not stick. 

The inside coating is a red color material which others have told me that is the coating we want for the best durability.

 I know about the gas gage problems. That is the reason I bought this tank in the first place since it had a gage. My original tank had a broken gage cap and a piece of plastic with silicone sealer slobbered on it. It took me a week of soaking and gentle tapping to remove it in one piece.

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 I coated my aluminum gage face in Super Glue and it seems to be holding up. DSCF5833.thumb.JPG.e5ee3faeb820dfeb95eee1193c176cf9.JPGDSCF5836.thumb.JPG.5de4a28b38733847c69b9973399f35f0.JPG

The white face unit I did for my Master has already washed off.DSCF5842.thumb.JPG.df72cc68332d237b0b94221f2c70f5bc.JPG

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I am in the process of restoring the same fuel gauge for my ‘27.  There were, key word were, some of the numbers/letters on the face of the gauge when I started to remove the gelled junk fuel off the face of the gauge but the quickly came off even though I used metal rescue that’s supposed to be safe on paint!

 

hey they are 91 years old, I was able to get back some pics of the gauge prior to them coming off.

 

Now I have a silver disc for a gauge face!  So I was considering at first to paint the letter/numbers on well my Wife would have been the artist as she was a graphic designer and artist and is amazing w a brush!

 

however now I am considering cutting the same letters and numbers out of brass and soldering them onto the gauge face so they don’t wash away from fuel splashing on them like paint would!

 

i do have a question though, when I took the gauge apart unfortunately I didn’t take notice of the order of gaskets and parts and what order they went together......

 

does anyone know rhe the correct order they go together?  

 

I did did get a new piece of glass cut/ground for the fuel gauge and my gauge was originally rusted /frozen in place so I was able to remove enough of the rust to get it to pivot again and a new float!

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crazyfamily:

 It was trial and error with how the caskets went in. In the original there were leather gaskets. Thin gasket between cap and glass then heavy gaskets between the gage and the glass.  I needed almost 3/16-1/4". I made a cut out version for the rivets. I still had to add another thickness so the pointer did not rub the inside of the glass. In one version I turned and faced a piece of white plastic pipe to fill the space. Like a collar. lt also made things a bit more visible.

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 I had also made an aluminum cap to replace the split steel one on my original tank. Someone in the past had tried to remove the cap with a pipe wrench, broke the cap and the threaded neck was misshapen. A lot of finessing to get it back to round.

Also I bought new nitrophil floats. See your friendly early Ford parts supplier as they are only a couple of dollars and were the correct size.

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 All the pieces I used in the Master gage.

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 Meyers Early Dodge has done a run of nickel plated brass caps with the correct 20 threads per inch for Hugh. (Standard only). I bought one at Hershey and they do fit very well. After wire brushing the external threads again it threaded  on with the proper fit.

 The gaskets that are to go with it and the glass are not enough for the Buick type gage. (domed face) So you will still have to make your own.

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While waiting for the primer to dry on the tank I thought I would do the last few steps to get the engine running. I have had the engine out for over a year getting rebuilt. It came back in September and I just got it started at 4:00 this afternoon. It started with the first or second revolution. It was idling well but there will be tweaking of the carb which was already dripping. 

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Edited by dibarlaw
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William,

I showed this gas gauge face from my car on another posting, but I can't find that, so sharing this now.  My gauge face was restored by a powder coater person that  lives near me.  I think the powder coating will hold up, since it is not submerged in fuel.  The powder coated part that I put in gasoline got soft to the touch, but did not come off.  Then I bought some POR 15 and I realized that it is actually fuel proof and is used as a fuel tank liner.  POR 15 is available in multiple colors and clear.  You can even get it in a spray can.  So here is another plan to restore a gauge face.  I am not sure if all their colors are fuel proof, or only certain ones.  

Paint the face with silver POR 15, or nickel plate it or use silver cadmium, or use a home plater kit.  Cut out the numbers and letters from black electrical tape.  My powder coater has a laser printer and cutter which works even better.  Then use POR 15 clear to encapsulate it.   This would keep the plating from tarnishing as well if you plated the gauge face.  POR 15 may also be a good clear to use on a polished brass carburetor bowl.   

Myers Early Dodge has all the gaskets and the glass to put the gauge back on your car.  Because the gauge face is domed, you need a few more gaskets to add clearance for the needle.  Myers made a small run of gas gauge retaining caps, so if yours is not perfect, they have them.  Be sure to use never seize on the threads of these gas gauge caps.  

Hugh

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  • 2 weeks later...
32 minutes ago, Crazyfamily said:

If you can point me in the right direction for just the mess to wrap around the original factory "filter" on the end of the fuel pick up tube that would be great, I could then take it from there I think....

 

I bought a Volkswagen one, but haven't soldered it on yet. 

 

https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111209147A

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The first photo is a fuel inlet screen available from JEGS, but I don't know if the size is correct.  The may be able to measure it for you.  You could roll the bottom end a little.  The main idea that it has to be able to fit thru the hole that the suction line goes thru.  The other photos are of the screen that Fred Rawlings made using house screen available at the hardware store and solder.   I would make 2 of these, as this is a job I need to do as well, but this job is low on my list as my motor is still not assembled.  Hugh

 

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23 hours ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

Don, 

    What is the outside diameter and the length of the screen that you bought.  I bought one for a Model A, but it was too small.     Hugh

 

Sorry for the delay, I almost forgot to do this today.

 

I think I may have trimmed off some of the screen already to get it to the right length, it was awhile ago and I don't remember.

 

I know that somewhere I have the overall length of the tube, fitting and screen written down, but I have to find it so I can position it properly before soldering. The outside diameter is about 3/8".

 

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Don, 

    Thanks for the measurement.   I found this in the Big parts book.  It shows the overall length that the filter should extend past the end of the pick up tube.   Looks like 1/8 inch.    I also don't see any solder on the screen seam or the bottom end.  Is that something that you have to do?

Morgan,   That is not a lot of surface area for the screen.    Hugh

 

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  • 11 months later...

Morgan,

    I actual bought that one early on.  It is too  small for the Buick pick up tube.   So many internet photos, so few dimensions.  Easier to use a piece of 3/8" rod as Don and Larry have done.    Lay a bead of solder down the ends of the screen rolled into a tube, then solder on a screen circle on the end.       Hugh 

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Screens are great but the particle size that can get through a screen can still clog the float needle valve in the carb. 

 

I plan to put a glass bowl style fuel filter in the line. Maybe under the car where it doesn't show. I'll find a place.

 

My float needle must have gotten a speck because it was flooding (leaking) and running rich, so I shut off the fuel supply needle valve while the engine was running until the engine stopped, to empty the float chamber. Then when it started again, the problem was solved

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I also thought of putting a filter between the fuel pick up and the vacuum tank.  The problem is that this line is under vacuum to draw fuel to the vacuum tank and not under pressure.  Common practice is to install a filter on the pressure side of the line.  This would be after the vacuum tank as Buick did in 1926, or after a fuel pump.  I would be afraid that my vacuum tank could not handle the pressure drop across the fuel filter and then I'm going no where.  The original intent on the vacuum tank is to draw the fuel off the side connection of the bottom cone on the vacuum tank.  The low point drain plug is to be removed at some frequency to remove the trash in the fuel.       Hugh

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1 hour ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

I also thought of putting a filter between the fuel pick up and the vacuum tank.  The problem is that this line is under vacuum to draw fuel to the vacuum tank and not under pressure.  Common practice is to install a filter on the pressure side of the line.  This would be after the vacuum tank as Buick did in 1926, or after a fuel pump.  I would be afraid that my vacuum tank could not handle the pressure drop across the fuel filter and then I'm going no where.  The original intent on the vacuum tank is to draw the fuel off the side connection of the bottom cone on the vacuum tank.  The low point drain plug is to be removed at some frequency to remove the trash in the fuel.  

Hugh, I've had inline modern filters on two vacuum tank-equipped Pierce 80s for more than 25,000 miles (combined) and have had no issues with fuel draw caused by those filters.  The first I positioned under the driver's floor "hatch" so that I could change the filter on the road without having to crawl under the car, but since that position was relatively close to the exhaust pipe I wrapped it with heat reflecting material.  The second I positioned at the rear of that car, away from exhaust, in the fuel line before the line followed the frame curve up over the rear axle.

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I was planning to cut the fuel line and attach something of very wide diameter to the OUTDIDE of the line, and NOT use the inside diameter of the tube because it would be too small and reduce flow. The fuel line is 5/16 inch OD which is around 3/16 inch ID. My plan is to sweat or swage something on the 5/16 OD and take it from there. Depends on what filter I can find.

 

None of the hardware stores or plumbing supply places around here carry fittings for 5/16 copper tubing or ever even heard of that size. They say "it goes from 1/4 to 3/8 inch, there is no such thing as 5/16 copper tubing."  Ha ha ha ha.

 

.

Edited by Morgan Wright
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Hugh, for my second installation (close to the tank), I used a Fram G-3802 large-capacity all-metal fuel filter, designed for many Ford-built EFI engines beginning in 1983 or so.  For the first installation under the driver's floor I needed a conventionally-sized inline fuel  filter.  If your installation will be visible (unlike mine) your AC glass bowl filter would be much more appropriate, IMHO.

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4 hours ago, Morgan Wright said:

Hi Morgan, the G-3802 has 5/16 short metal extensions with a flare on each to help hold the rubber fuel line connector--about 3 inches on each end will do it.  Yes, the Series 80 has 5/16 copper line.  To secure the filter body in place, use plumbers' strapping tape if you can't find a more elegant clamp.  Screw through the holes in the tape or clamp into a wood sill.  I mounted mine horizontally.

 

I chose that one because it's in stock almost everywhere--or was 20 years ago when I installed it.  You could always carry a spare...  🙂

Edited by Grimy
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hubert,

 

I got excited and ordered 2 filters of Grimy's specs. After installing one and seeing how heavy duty it is, and thinking of how many miles I plan on driving the car (very few) I know that I will NEVER need the second one.

 

If you want the second one just let me know, at no charge since I'm endebted to you for the clutch plate. I have 6 inches extra of the rubber attachment hose and will toss it in.

 

Here's the pic:

 

 

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Morgan, 

    Thanks for the offer on the fuel filter.  I replaced the fuel line from the gas tank to the vacuum tank with new copper.  My fuel line was missing, and the replacement fuel line from another 1925-25 was rolled up by the shipper.  This old copper tubing is very susceptible to cracks and true to form it had a series of small cracks in it when it was laid flat again to follow the frame.  I also don't want any rubber hoses in my fuel system so if I do install a filter I will use threaded and ferrules.   If I had not gone thru all the trouble of creating a new fuel line, I would use your filter.     Hugh   

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