Matt Harwood

1935 Lincoln K Club Sedan

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, maok said:

Is the rear engine mount intergrated to the engine block or just sandwiched between the engine and gearbox? And can be separated from the engine when the gearbox is removed back. I couldn't tell from your pics.

 

They are very much integral (not my engine, just a photo of a Lincoln K crankcase):

 

s-l1600.jpg

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

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Matt, is that your engine?

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Matt, is that your engine?

 

No. Google image search. Mine is identical, albeit complete and still sort of sitting in the car.

 

 

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

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3 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

They are very much integral:

 

s-l1600.jpg

Shyte!!

 

Could it come out backwards and down? Just a crazy suggestion.

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7 minutes ago, maok said:

Shyte!!

 

Could it come out backwards and down? Just a crazy suggestion.

 

Not with the blocks still in place on top of the crankcase (never mind the transmission/torque tube/rear end). Which brings us full circle...

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Quote

 

Hi Matt,

This whole situation really stinks and unfortunately is a cautionary tale for all of us. I am really sorry you have had so much trouble with what should be a great car. I think that Edsel Ford had a great eye for style and your car is just one of many examples of that.

One thought I had is have you tried contacting an outfit like White Post Restorations or Wayne Carini for a second opinion? There has to be someone out in the restoration world that has dealt with something like this and could at least confirm the choices you have to get the engine out of the car and effect a repair.

Best of luck,

Lew Bachman

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Posted (edited)

I’m quite sure Matt will persevere and get the job done. He’s been around the hobby too long to not be able to work out the issue. The fact is we all look for the least difficult path when we take on such a project. Pulling the torque tube and transmission may be the answer, or lifting the body. Every car and situation is diffrent. The fact is the CCCA multi cylinder cars are very difficult to deal with today, even with deep pockets and time, they can be very difficult to fix. Most people have NO idea how many parts the big cars have compared to the smaller cars.......two to three times as many parts.........which means three times the work at minimum. You can bleed money faster than one can imagine. Forty years of dealing with the big cars has put me in a certain “head”.........there is no substitute for time........these cars take ten times more effort and five times the money you think they will. After all this time and countless cars, I am simply astounded every time I tear into a car and fix all the issues that pop up. This week coming up, I am going to tear into a car that was restored without regards to cost........the shop did a great job, and still I have to do ten to fifteen thousand dollars worth of work to make it perfect mechanically............It drives me crazy to drive a 100 point car with bad mechanical attributes. Almost every CCCA car I drive today has clutch issues. Chatter, grabby, poor release, pedal issues. I can’t stand a car that shutters when you let the clutch up. Recently I did a clutch on a DV-32 Stutz, that had been done no less then three times in ten years......and the thing was still terrible after 20k of work done on it by “professional shops”. It was chattering so bad I thought it would brake an axle. I fixed If for about 850 dollars in parts, and a bunch of my time. I got it right on the first try. Sadly, today there arn’t enough people who just understand these car and how to properly service them. How did I fix it?.........Forty years of experience and not taking one single short cut. Total time for the repair was almost three months. No hurry, no shortcuts, just taking my time making sure everything was correct, and fixing all the problems the three previous attempts that added to the issue.......how hard can it be......it’s just an old car......slap it together and it will be fine.........NOT!  If this were easy, everyone would be doing it. There is NO substitution for experience, craftsmanship, and attention to detail. 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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I think I understand how you are saying it was built. Rear engine mounts are inside the chassis, bolted to the web of the channel on the outside. So it must have been assembled by bringing the engine in from the wider part of the chassis, front-up a smidgeon, to the right place. Then the assembled and mostly complete body was slung into place on the chassis - the "body drop" I believe.

 

Dumb thought. Is it possible to hang the engine front up a just a little and back just a tad, so you can rotate it (front towards the left) and bring the rear mount ears more parallel to the chassis? This would require a little more width in the chassis or removal of spacer blocks if there are any. No doubt you have looked at this though. It would be rather xclnt of you could remove those steel plates in your picture of the block before attempting to remove the engine this way!

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Damn Lincolns are cursed aren't they? I feel your pain. 

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Posted (edited)

Booya!

 

1-8-19-5.thumb.jpg.6f751f818192d26c7b57beb6cb629052.jpg 1-8-19-4.thumb.jpg.ca4ef2cb893570541bb20d43158b5de6.jpg1-8-19-6.thumb.jpg.01fbe611a3fb4d08dd8ccccc54902f74.jpg

 

Came in this morning to find Dr. Francini hard at work. In fact, he already had the engine out and hanging from the hoist in the middle of the shop. He said he'd had a vision over the weekend while he was sleeping and wanted to try something different. He somehow managed to back out the bolts holding the engine mounts on the rear of the engine--he put nuts on the ends and backed them out from the inside (the rear mounts are open on the bottom where you can access the hardware). He said he could only get about 1/30 of a turn at a time so it was slow going, but eventually the bolts were loose enough that he could pull them out with his fingers. Removing the rear engine mounts gave him about an inch of extra space on each side. He rearranged the straps and rotated the engine as far as he could clockwise (as viewed from the front). He lifted it with the hoist, then put a jack under it to take the stress off the straps, then rotated it a little more, rearranged straps, raised it, repeat several times. Eventually he had the passenger's side rear engine mount clear of the frame and could maneuver the engine out. He said it took him about 90 minutes working by himself and he didn't have to remove the steering box. I'm very lucky to have a guy like Dr. Francini working my my shop. Let's just hope going back in is manageable with the steering box in place.

 

With the engine out, we built our pallet for transportation and secured it in place, then dropped it on a heavy-duty cart so we can move it around the shop.

 

1-8-19-3.thumb.jpg.e550899525c1fe176bba62014b01504b.jpg 1-8-19-7.thumb.jpg.353cb8ebce3c3ffc863684d99d536ad8.jpg 1-8-19-1.thumb.jpg.407f8d5250b5e3efc4223adc20531791.jpg

 

The clutch looks pretty fresh with new hardware and you can tell someone has been in there somewhat recently, but Dr. Francini pulled it off anyway and I'm going to send it out to be rebuilt. It worked beautifully with smooth take-off and no chatter, so I hope it comes back just as good. My bank account's new name is "As long as we're in there." Francini is fighting with getting the flywheel off and I want to do more research before we really put any force into popping it off. May as well try to find a new throwout bearing and pilot bearing for it as long as we're in there.

 

Also noticed that the rear engine mounts are shot--they're just a 3/4-inch piece of rubber sandwiched between two steel plates, so I'll send those to Steele Rubber to be re-vulcanized. We could probably do it ourselves since it's just a simple sandwich construction, but why cut corners at this point? As long as we're in there, right?

 

One thing puzzles me, however: the crankcase shows two K numbers. My car number is K4223, which is shown on the left side of the crankcase as well as on the serial number plate on the firewall. However, the crankcase also shows K5790 back by the left rear engine mount. It's the same chunk of aluminum, why two vastly different K numbers? This seems to be where numbers are stamped on all the cars (check out the other crankcase, above), but why don't they match?

 

EngineNo1.thumb.jpg.a47f4fc21d8399f811ef4b2f0e54ee72.jpg EngineNo2.thumb.jpg.4abf17baf3376ce15f2b924380e025de.jpg

 

Thanks for the support everyone. I don't have the reserves that I should when dealing with this car and I get pretty frayed. Thank you to all who offered suggestions and help!

 

 

 

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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Sometimes it pays to stand back and look at it for a few days, then go back at it.

It also pays to swear at it some!!!!

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1 minute ago, dalef62 said:

Sometimes it pays to stand back and look at it for a few days, then go back at it.

It also pays to swear at it some!!!!

 

I am an artist. My medium is curse words. 

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Well, Hallelujah!  A banner day for sure, and a nice bonus for Dr. Francini.  He even works in his sleep!  😄

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31 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

I am an artist. My medium is curse words. 

 

I don't know that you should be cursing the Lincoln gods as yet, it still has to go back in.....🙄

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Standing back is a good thing sometimes. I remember one time when I rebuilt an engine for a friend and was putting it back in the car. I couldn't get the engine to marry back to the transmission. I tried everything I could think of as well for a few choice words to no avail. In walked my dad and he wanted to know what all the noise was about. When I explained the problem, he told me it was because the license plate bolts were loose and t needed to tighten then first. After a short discussion, I gave in to his idea. I grabbed a screw driver and tightened the dam screws and put it back up. Then I started to work on the problem. While standing on the frame rails, I grabbed the water pump to adjust the engine and heard the engine and transmission slam together. I looked at dad and all he could say is " I told you so". I didn't say a word and finished the job without anymore problems. Afterwards, I finally asked dad what the relationship was between the license plate bolts and getting the engine back in. He said it took my mind off the problem and when I went back to it, I was looking at it differently. I am just thankful for all the wisdom he gave me over the years

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In the IT business they call these shower moments. Many a problem has been solved in the shower after hours of frustration. It is encouraging to see a difficult problem like this one solved. It gives us all hope in our restorations.

Matt, I'm glad this hurdle has been cleared.

Lew Bachman

1957 T-Bird

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Congratulations Matt and your crew!

 

I'm a firm believer in  The Eureka Phenomenon.  I can't count how many times the solution came to me when I simply walked away from the problem.

 

So happy for you and can't wait to see how this all finishes.

 

Gary

 

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Matt, I can feel your frustration and problem solving skills all at the same time when reading this.  I dont care what make and model car a person has, the information you have so diligently provided here is incredibly valuable.  

 

I only have but one thing to add.  There is a tool I reccommend you acquire in order to more adequately establish your credibility here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6EBE4EE3-29A0-4D3B-9B09-97053A6B663E.jpeg

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Great news. I also like to "sleep on it". During my post-grad. days, the best ideas came in the shower. It seems Dr Francini and I had the same vision.

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One more "while you're in there":  Replace those core plugs at the rear of the cylinder blocks...

 

CONGRATULATIONS!

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Hello Matt  several years back I bought a 34 Lincoln with the motor out I knew it was possible but since I didn’t pull it out I didn’t want to chime in and sound like a smart ass I  knew you weren’t in the mood,I got a price then probably 10 years ago of 12.000 dollars to go threw the motor,that was more than twice what I payed for the car so I sent it down the road,I’ll stick with the devauxs for now there a lot cheaper,  good luck. Dave

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I knew you would figure it out.   And...I'm glad you didn't set the car on fire!

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40 minutes ago, TexRiv_63 said:

I knew you would figure it out.   And...I'm glad you didn't set the car on fire!

 

Unfortunately, I'm quite confident this car will find a way to piss me off again.

 

I almost started yelling at it once the engine was out. "See? Are you happy now? I had to rip your stupid heart out because you can't get your sh*t together! You were running and driving two weeks ago, but now you're just a pile of junk. Is this what you wanted? Does this make you happy, you stupid old fool?!?"

 

Then I realized that's what a crazy person would do. So I didn't do it (this time, anyway).

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This exercise is one more proof of my long-held theory that auto manufacturers have, for decades, installed a tiny, undetectable component called an Urgency Detector which senses when the owner/mechanic really MUST meet a deadline, and then kicks in Obstruction and Failure Mode.  Urgency Detectors are also found in Windows 95 computers, office copiers, and (for you really old people) fax machines.

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