Matt Harwood

1935 Lincoln K Club Sedan

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8 hours ago, Dave Fields said:

I cannot imagine why you do not have towing insurance through your insurance company.

 

Because I'm a business and the car is owned by my business. No insurance company will give me towing insurance on 100 cars. I burned through my three free Platinum AAA tows before the car even showed up just doing routine business moving cars around earlier in the year.

 

8 hours ago, Dave Fields said:

A harbor freight heat gun is a great tool.

 

Have one. Earlier in this thread you can see me using it to determine where the cooling system is hottest, which appears to be at the very top of the radiator. That makes sense. However, since current ambient temperatures are 24 degrees outside and about 65 in the shop, there's no way to really stress the cooling system at this point and see if any of the changes I've made are an improvement. It will idle forever at 165 degrees in 65-degree ambient temperatures, which leaves me optimistic. But since we're tearing the whole front of the car off anyway, I'm going to send the radiator out to be cleaned and inspected and perhaps re-cored. It's just money, right?

 

8 hours ago, Dave Fields said:

Your cooling line adaptor us a bad idea. The hose at some point will slide off and dump your cooling fluid. Been there and done that.

 

How? Look at the photos--there's no place for the hose to go and it's semi-rigid and the engine has solid mounts so it doesn't move relative to the radiator. It took every bit of muscle I had to get two hoses and the adapter on there. Unlikely that it will slip off, especially with the restrictors in there reducing flow. I may make a new adapter that has slightly longer ends, perhaps put a bead around the edges to help retain the hoses, maybe even include some kind of built-in restrictor and/or thermostat. But I'm not too worried about it coming apart--my father ran his Model A Ford with such a device for decades without incident.

 

Right now, we're getting ready to disassemble the front end sheetmetal and tear out the engine to ship it across the country for repairs. I have bigger worries with this car at the moment, most of which center around whether I will have a healthy engine in the spring or if I'll be taking out a second mortgage to buy a new $30,000 Lincoln V12 and losing the car for a year or two. Hoses slipping off are the least of my worries right now.

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On 11/7/2018 at 8:16 AM, Matt Harwood said:

 

Good point--I hadn't thought of that! It's supposed to be fairly dry this weekend so I'm hoping to do some driving to see how it works. It's cool, so it probably won't reveal much. I am also installing a more accurate temperature gauge hidden out of sight in the glove box, so that will give me an actual reading rather than just a guess from a column of red liquid. I hope you're right!

A harbor freight heat gun is a great tool.

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On 11/7/2018 at 8:16 AM, Matt Harwood said:

 

Good point--I hadn't thought of that! It's supposed to be fairly dry this weekend so I'm hoping to do some driving to see how it works. It's cool, so it probably won't reveal much. I am also installing a more accurate temperature gauge hidden out of sight in the glove box, so that will give me an actual reading rather than just a guess from a column of red liquid. I hope you're right!

A harbor freight heat gun is a great tool.

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We have a 1935 Lincoln 3 window sedan on the short wheelbase we are working on. Someone put a lot of effort in the car with mixed results. The front seats weren't bolted in, which we are fixing this week. Then we will see how she drives and operates on more than around the block run. I know what you mean about the hood, very heavy and like threading a needle raising and lowering it and no proper way to position the hood open. But fortunately the missing parts for bolting the seats in were available at home depot, t nuts and bolts.

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10 minutes ago, Dave Fields said:

Talked to Haggerty Insurance today. They will provide VIP services including towing for any size collection. 

 

Yes, but not for a business like mine--I am a collector car dealer. Hagerty actually insures my business. If free VIP towing were part of the deal, I'd be using it. It is not available to a dealer because they don't want to foot the bill for moving all my cars around the country. "Hey, Hagerty VIP, my car is broken down here in Cleveland and I need it to go to San Francisco for repairs with that free shipping deal. Yeah, a burned out taillight. But I need to ship it across the country to get it fixed, they're the only ones who can do it. Free shipping in the VIP program, right? No, that car four days ago went to Texas for a soft tire, totally different car. And I'm pretty sure I'll have another car that will be broken on Thursday or Friday and will have to be hauled to Florida." Yeah, no. They won't do it. 

 

Good thought, but I'm not being obtuse or overlooking a free perk. I'm not entitled to free towing the same way I am not able to take out collector car financing because the bank doesn't want to floor plan my inventory. They don't want to be on the hook for services that are otherwise part of running a business. Even if it's my personal car, if it's owned by the business (which I own, but they still don't regard the car as "mine") it's covered by the business policy and not entitled to perks like free towing.

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True, but no  towing insurance is for beyond a few miles, often 50 or 100. Interesting they wouldn't insure you. I am anxious to see how fr our Lincoln will go before it quits. A positive note, after sitting 6 months, with just a few pedal pumps, she fired right up on 6 volts. It does have an electric fuel pump.  I wish I could say the other headaches would start so easily. With the power boster, I was stunned how good the brakes are. (That is how we found the seats weren't bolted down. LOL!

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Mine starts easily and always has (except when it was hot when I first got it). It now starts without me having to do anything but reach in the window and push the button for two seconds. Good grounds, big cables, and two Optimas ensure that. Most of the intrinsic problems on these cars appear to be heat-related and almost all the Lincoln experts with which I've corresponded seem to agree that even the best ones run hot. The factory switched from cast iron to aluminum cylinder heads, apparently in an attempt to combat the hot running, so even the factory knew about it and were powerless to do much. If you haven't done all the service work yet, I'd say you should clean out the cooling system, fuel system and rebuild the fuel pump, if not the carb too, to make sure all that is as clean and fresh as possible. Vapor lock is a real thing with these cars, so get the fuel lines away from any source of heat. Several members of this board made fun of my fuel system with straight lines and tool-bends, but they're not going to cook or restrict the gas, which is really what matters. 

 

I'd also say replace everything in the ignition system--there's someone on this board who has made some beautiful reproduction distributor rotors and while pricey at $120, they're way better than brittle old NOS bakelite. New points and condensers are commonly available, new coils are standard off-the-shelf pieces, and definitely install some new plug wires--you'll get misfires inside that conduit if your wires aren't perfect. New plug wires are cheap insurance. 

 

I agree that the brakes are excellent. In the manual, you'll note it says to pull the booster canister out from under the car and periodically condition the diaphragm. Too late for mine, it's damaged, but if yours is still intact, I suggest you do that to keep it supple. I still haven't found anyone who can rebuild mine and I don't have the tools or knowledge to take it apart and do it myself. If the system is working, make sure it's healthy. May as well replace all the vacuum hoses at the same time--they're a weird size, so take a sample to the parts store when you go to buy more. You'll probably need 12 or 15 feet of the stuff to do the whole power brake circuit. Clean out the cooling system as best as you can--even though mine sure looks ultra-clean, I still have concerns.

 

Good luck. I hope your story is happier than mine...

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On 12/13/2018 at 6:10 AM, Matt Harwood said:

 

Right now, we're getting ready to disassemble the front end sheetmetal and tear out the engine to ship it across the country for repairs. 

 

And with the sheet metal off you can examine the shutter thermostat system.

It may not be worth restoring on a warm running summer car, but at least you can make sure they are 100% open 

 

I had the T-stat rebuilt on the 29 Cad and it is fun to watch them open and close. But on your 35 they are hidden. 

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6 hours ago, m-mman said:

And with the sheet metal off you can examine the shutter thermostat system.

It may not be worth restoring on a warm running summer car, but at least you can make sure they are 100% open 

I strongly recommend lubing the pivot pins of the shutters, top and bottom, and ensuring that they operate freely.  A year ago the shutters on my 1934 Pierce weren't opening fully, and there is a strong spring attempting to keep them closed.  I found that the shutters were binding, and that their sticking and failing to open fully apparently caused a partial failure of the sylphon-style thermostat.  Of course, the pivots may have worn over the years.  New sylphon-style stat has been installed, and NOW an annual lube of the shutter slat pivots is on my maintenance schedule.

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And so it has come to this...

 

After some additional discussions, we have decided that we're going to pull the engine ourselves. Our first plan was to ship the whole car, then for me to pull the front end sheetmetal off and ship the car that way and Tom would remove the engine, but ultimately, it seemed that we could all save some money and hassles if we pulled the engine here, put it in a crate, and let Tom pick it up for repairs. That saves me $3200 worth of shipping an entire car back and forth and it saves Tom the hassle of pulling the motor. Win-win situations are always good.

 

In addition, that means I can take the radiator to be tested and perhaps re-cored (the sucker has to be five inches thick!), I can paint and detail the engine compartment and frame, I can fix some of the wiring, I can rebuild the starter and water pump, and a whole bunch of other things that would be tough with the engine in the car and/or if it was in another state. We'll also pull the oil pan and clean it out and inspect the bottom end. Before the engine goes back in, we'll paint and detail it then reinstall it and start over with the tuning and sorting, which hopefully won't be as much of a challenge the second time around. 

 

Engine2.thumb.jpg.bc744e87ea4220959b7211233602a244.jpg Engine1.thumb.jpg.f5dea6f48cc1dd366e360fd733407928.jpg Engine3.thumb.jpg.97afb1d801520277a55a6318cd1f86b5.jpg
Dr. Francini works fast—he got the sidemounts, bumper, hood, headlights, and grille shell off in about an hour. It took three guys to lift that hood!


The downside is that I am running into a lot of aslongaswereinthere-itis. Should I replace the clutch/resurface the flywheel while the engine is out? Front and rear main seals? Oil pump? Hard to know what to prioritize and what doesn't matter. Seals aren't particularly leaky and the clutch feels great and there's plenty of oil pressure, but as long as we're in there...

 

Money is starting to be an issue with this car--I'm bleeding Benjamins so I'd like to be at least a little selective about which jobs I tackle during this project. It's always quiet this week before Christmas, so Dr. Francini has some time to work on it, but I'm still paying him and when business picks up in 10 days, the Lincoln will be low priority. And all that other stuff will add up fast. Water pump rebuild $500, starter rebuild $500, radiator $1000, gaskets $250, clutch $500, etc., etc., etc.

 

Grimy, the radiator shutters move easily, but the thermostat has obviously failed and the springs aren't strong enough to pull the shutters 100% open. I'm debating whether to rebuild the thermostat "as long we're in there," or just pin the shutters in the open position permanently, or even remove the assembly entirely. The shutter assembly simply bolts to the front of the radiator and removing it would remove a significant chunk of metal from the front of the car as well as improve airflow to the radiator. I now believe there is a thermostat in the water pump, probably to regulate the oil cooler. I say this because every time I start it, it spikes up to 205 degrees on the gauge, then instantly cools down to 160, just like a thermostat opening. Perhaps that thermostat alone would be adequate for temperature regulation in exclusively warm weather. Alternatively, Dr. Francini thought about adding a pair of those little Ford flathead thermostats inside both coolant return hoses coming out of the block. That way they could function as thermostats and as restrictors to slow down flow, making the shutters unnecessary. On the other hand, the radiator is absolutely GIGANTIC. It's easily five inches thick and probably eighteen inches wide by thirty inches tall. If that thing isn't cooling, it is not the shutters' fault. Still, if they're redundant...Thoughts?

 

Shutters1.thumb.jpg.888cbc04e8662fc9557b0dac83212011.jpg
Shutters can probably be made to work, but do I really need them?
I could open up that whole front of the radiator and nobody could
tell the difference.

 

Since these cars don't have a manual, we're still puzzling over how to get the engine out. Engine AND transmission and disconnect it at the torque tube or disconnect the engine at the transmission and leave the transmission in the car? Not sure yet. Anyone have any experience pulling one of these monsters?

 

Here we go, no going back now!

 

 

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Matt,

 

It may be more work but I would pull the engine and trans together and then separate on the floor.  I have always found installing the engine and trans together less frustrating as opposed to mating the two, in the car, with limited space.  If you getting the clutch done, do yourself a favor and send it to  Fort Wayne Clutch.

 

mike

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I think you are going the right way. R.E. the clutch, inspect and decide. If it looks good, it is probably as good as a replacement. If it is not gushing oil I would pass on seals and gaskets. These old engines cannot be made dry, in my experience. Shutters? I vote to remove, although I think your overheating problem will be gone when the radiator is clean. Perhaps ask the radiator shop to catch the junk from the tubes for you [ and us ] to see. 

 

  Merry Christmas.

 

  Benb

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As you know, old cars can be a can of worms.  Many, many guys will disagree, but I like the advice Ben and Spinneyhill gave you above.  You already got off on the wrong foot with this car, so I'd try to make this job as unobtrusive as possible.  Definitely do the radiator and check out the clutch, but I would plug my ears and sing "la la la la la" to the rest... Then again, I often make the wrong decision.  :)  

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1 hour ago, Aaron65 said:

As you know, old cars can be a can of worms.  Many, many guys will disagree, but I like the advice Ben and Spinneyhill gave you above.  You already got off on the wrong foot with this car, so I'd try to make this job as unobtrusive as possible.  Definitely do the radiator and check out the clutch, but I would plug my ears and sing "la la la la la" to the rest... Then again, I often make the wrong decision.  :)  

 

 la la la la la . I like that.

 

  Ben

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Well, Dr. Francini is nothing if not efficient and careful. He made a lot of progress today, more than I expected. When I went back to the shop to check up on him, I saw that he found a roll of bubble wrap and was busily wrapping the big painted parts like the fenders and hood. I also noticed that he had labeled every single part with masking tape and all the nuts and bolts were in separate little bags with their own labels. Nice!

 

Disassembled1.thumb.jpg.4707e9a79c3f22e8f5e039134a8124a6.jpg Disassembled3.thumb.jpg.8933c3b6c4012ba519fd08ea60ba35f7.jpg
And this is exactly why I love having Dr. Francini around.

 

I was pleased to see that the frame was in decent shape with no rust or major issues. Once the engine is out, we'll hit it with a wire wheel and clean it up then give it a coat of satin black paint to look its best. There was some crumbling rubber between the fender and the frame, so I'll find something similar and put it in there before it all goes back together. I sure hope Francini was paying attention when all this came apart. I don't like this feeling of having everything apart and not being the guy who did it.

 

Disassembled2.thumb.jpg.0a318d3152970c9ebb57df2727cc43bd.jpg
Frame is dirty but otherwise in good shape.

 

I also noticed that the headlight wiring was crumbling, so that's on the list. Headlights work fine but someone has already been in there doing some wiring, some good, some bad. On the bad side, all the wires they used are the same color, so there's a big bundle of yellow wires in there. On the good side, they converted the troublesome switch at the base of the steering column to a pull switch and a relay, so if its wired correctly there shouldn't be any issues in the future. I'll re-wire the whole setup in various appropriate colors (I think there's a wiring diagram in the owner's manual) and add some bullet connectors in the headlight mounts so that they're easier to remove if necessary. 

 

Disassembled4.thumb.jpg.b54861e9cc7573323617b4996a14e0a4.jpg
Looks like new headlight wiring is in my future...

 

Tomorrow the other fender comes off, the radiator comes out, and we'll decide whether the engine comes out or the engine AND transmission come out together...

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1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

Well, Dr. Francini is nothing if not efficient and careful. He made a lot of progress today, more than I expected. When I went back to the shop to check up on him, I saw that he found a roll of bubble wrap and was busily wrapping the big painted parts like the fenders and hood. I also noticed that he had labeled every single part with masking tape and all the nuts and bolts were in separate little bags with their own labels. Nice!

 

Disassembled1.thumb.jpg.4707e9a79c3f22e8f5e039134a8124a6.jpg Disassembled3.thumb.jpg.8933c3b6c4012ba519fd08ea60ba35f7.jpg
And this is exactly why I love having Dr. Francini around.

 

I was pleased to see that the frame was in decent shape with no rust or major issues. Once the engine is out, we'll hit it with a wire wheel and clean it up then give it a coat of satin black paint to look its best. There was some crumbling rubber between the fender and the frame, so I'll find something similar and put it in there before it all goes back together. I sure hope Francini was paying attention when all this came apart. I don't like this feeling of having everything apart and not being the guy who did it.

 

Disassembled2.thumb.jpg.0a318d3152970c9ebb57df2727cc43bd.jpg
Frame is dirty but otherwise in good shape.

 

I also noticed that the headlight wiring was crumbling, so that's on the list. Headlights work fine but someone has already been in there doing some wiring, some good, some bad. On the bad side, all the wires they used are the same color, so there's a big bundle of yellow wires in there. On the good side, they converted the troublesome switch at the base of the steering column to a pull switch and a relay, so if its wired correctly there shouldn't be any issues in the future. I'll re-wire the whole setup in various appropriate colors (I think there's a wiring diagram in the owner's manual) and add some bullet connectors in the headlight mounts so that they're easier to remove if necessary. 

 

Disassembled4.thumb.jpg.b54861e9cc7573323617b4996a14e0a4.jpg
Looks like new headlight wiring is in my future...

 

Tomorrow the other fender comes off, the radiator comes out, and we'll decide whether the engine comes out or the engine AND transmission come out together...

 

It's almost finished the old car restoration.

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11 minutes ago, Jim Bourque said:

With few more bolts you could have the body off and perfect access to remove the engine and whatever else. 

 

 

 

Stop it. No mission creep. I'm not doing a frame-off restoration on this car. No. No way. Absolutely not. Forget it. Bad suggestion. Do not put that in my head. 

 

:)

 

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I am a BIG fan of do EVERYTHING right. DO NOT REMOVE THE BODY! Restoration creep is always a hazard and difficult to avoid. While I understand you don’t want to keep bleeding money, now is the fastest and easiest time to fix stuff.......and it’s also the least expensive while you have easy access to everything. My best guess is it will be lots more time than money. I would fix everything you see to the best of your ability. A wiring harness isn’t too expensive if you only get the one for thr front clip. The car has great lines, and are great drivers when sorted. A little extra time and effort now will pay off over many years. Car looks good.........I expect when your done all the bad memories will fade away. Best of luck in making progress and wishing you and your family a very Merry Christmas! Ed

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12 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Stop it. No mission creep. I'm not doing a frame-off restoration on this car. No. No way. Absolutely not. Forget it. Bad suggestion. Do not put that in my head. 

 

:)

 

 

 Agree!   Just keep remembering the Limited.   Just keep remembering the Limited.

 

  Ben

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I am concerned that you will find an internal crack in the block. Of course I am 2000 miles away so what do I know. But I think you would want to determine that the engine doesn't have serious issues before doing anything else. Certainly with the engine out you should inspect the oil pump clutch etc. A starter or generator may only benefit from cleaning and new brushes which you could do in your shop. Considering that most people put far less than 1000 miles a year on their cars some things could be ignored. However at the rate we are looking craftsmen some things may be now or never. You have a beautiful car. Best wishes.

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1 minute ago, Dave Fields said:

I am concerned that you will find an internal crack in the block. Of course I am 2000 miles away so what do I know. But I think you would want to determine that the engine doesn't have serious issues before doing anything else. Certainly with the engine out you should inspect the oil pump clutch etc. A starter or generator may only benefit from cleaning and new brushes which you could do in your shop. Considering that most people put far less than 1000 miles a year on their cars some things could be ignored. However at the rate we are looking craftsmen some things may be now or never. You have a beautiful car. Best wishes.

 

Thanks, Dave. The whole reason the engine is coming out is BECAUSE there's at least one crack/hole in the block. Check out the video in the very first post of this thread. The whole reason it is going back to Tom Laferriere is because he stepped up to own the problem and is taking the engine to his metal stitch guy to see if it can be repaired. We're both optimistic that it can be repaired without a major tear-down and rebuild. If not, well, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. We've both got our fingers crossed that it can be repaired. The alternative is just too awful to contemplate right now.

 

There's no way to know the extent of the damage because whomever first discovered the leak in the past (before Tom had it) covered it up with JB Weld, sanded it, and then painted over it to hide the damage. That half-assed repair has failed but until we get in there and start grinding away the JB Weld and drilling holes in the side of the block to see how thick the metal is, there's just no way to know the extent of the damage. It kind of puts my frustration and anger with this car in perspective, no? Best case is that Tom's guy can fix it and everything is good as new. Worst case is, well, a new engine and I've been quoted $30,000 for that job, provided I can find new cylinder blocks. THAT is why the engine is coming out, not just because I want to clean the frame rails or because I'm curious about the condition of the clutch or the oil pump. This has been in the works since July...

 

Let's keep our fingers crossed that this is a routine repair.

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