MarkV

Damage to my 48 Lincoln

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With a 12 volt conversion I would be double sure to check everything. That ups the degree of difficulty in a big way. Nothing is plug and play bolt in easy no matter what anyone says. I hope their good at they're job but thats the kind of thing that is ripe for gremlins especially on an already complicated car like your Lincoln. If you have a problem with all this other stuff do you think you will be able to take it back to them to make it right? Hopefully no problems but I also hope this doesnt put you in a bad spot if you need fixes later. Good luck!

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1 hour ago, billorn said:

With a 12 volt conversion I would be double sure to check everything. That ups the degree of difficulty in a big way. Nothing is plug and play bolt in easy no matter what anyone says. I hope their good at they're job but thats the kind of thing that is ripe for gremlins especially on an already complicated car like your Lincoln. If you have a problem with all this other stuff do you think you will be able to take it back to them to make it right? Hopefully no problems but I also hope this doesnt put you in a bad spot if you need fixes later. Good luck!

 

I made sure they replaced the bulbs with 12 volt and put the proper connectors to downgrade the voltage to 6 volt to various accessories. Most of the car can run on 12 volt, window pump, starter, without modification. I had them leave the radio, fans and heater unplugged. The rest of the sockets, bulbs, etc were replaced with 12 volt or upgraded due to rust in the case of the sockets.

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5 hours ago, MarkV said:

... Below are attached pics of my car from last January at his shop, note no damage. 

 

Your car is nicer than I thought, Mark V.  

The first pictures posted--after the car sat outside

and was damaged--made it look like a #4 condition car,

where sitting outside could be appropriate.

 

A car as nice as yours should not sit outside unless

you and the shop owner agreed.  No good shop would

put a decent car outside for ANY length of time.

And I doubt that you would agree to that.

 

But the good news is that this episode will be behind you

after a little while.  You'll have your car to enjoy.

 

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

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42 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

Your car is nicer than I thought, Mark V.  

The first pictures posted--after the car sat outside

and was damaged--made it look like a #4 condition car,

where sitting outside could be appropriate.

 

A car as nice as yours should not sit outside unless

you and the shop owner agreed.  No good shop would

put a decent car outside for ANY length of time.

And I doubt that you would agree to that.

 

But the good news is that this episode will be behind you

after a little while.  You'll have your car to enjoy.

 

It just needs a good buff, if I don’t do it every 6 months it looks like the pic I took on Monday. The earlier photos were after I cleaned it at his shop in January or so. It’s something to do with the ancient paint on it. I clay bar it along with scratch out and a wax to keep it nice. 

 

Ps it has been stored outside since 1974! And the paint predates that, it is usually under a cover the owner between my grandpa and I kept it in a car port.

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So just got off the phone with the mechanic shop and the body person came out to look at it and said that the paint would be more shiny and would not be able to match. And then I was told that they could do the body work and leave it in primer until I decide to paint it! Yikes! I’m picking up the car today and cleaning it up then I’ll  take it over to a friend of mine who will give me the whole picture. 

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Ask who their garage insurance is with.  Tell them it will be in primer for less than 24 hours before they repaint the whole car.  Get their insurance adjuster out there.  Have you called your insurance company?  They may help with the pressure on the garage.  Call an attorney.  Their fees may be much less than a repaint.

Edited by 61polara (see edit history)

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I’ve been waiting to see if you are going to continue to let them control the problem they cause or if you are going to wake up and take control. Multiple people have suggested you get your insurance company AND the shops insurance company involved. Have you done it, or are you waiting another year or two?  You may have had a friendship with the owner, but if I had a friend treat me this way he would be on my a$$@ list, and I wouldn’t be very friendly. Crying on this forum is not going to get you beautiful car fixed. Get proactive NOW!!  

Sorry for being a little hard, but I’ve never understood not “Just doing it” 

Dave S 

Edited by SC38DLS (see edit history)
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In a situation like this, your own insurance company should ALWAYS be the first and only call you make. They have resources you don't, it's their job to protect you (their client) and your assets. Your rates should not go up unless you acted negligently (I don't think you did, beyond letting a hack shop work on your car and store it outside). They WILL collect from the shop owner one way or another, so if you're worried about the poor multi-billion-dollar international insurance conglomerate's few hundred bucks to settle the claim, I guess that's admirable but ultimately counter-productive for you, the guy who was wronged. This is what they do, all day, every day. They have armies of people being paid to handle this stuff. They will either subrogate with the shop owner's insurance company (he should have some kind of minimal insurance no matter how lousy a business person he is) or they'll sue him personally and settle for an amount that is acceptable to them.

 

In the meantime, your car is getting fixed at the shop of your choice and you can enjoy it instead of watching it rust in someone else's yard.

 

Again: this is all they do. If you've ever complained about paying insurance, this is your chance to "cash in" on all that money you've just been "handing" them for all these years. Make them do their jobs for you, the paying customer. Letting the shop owner dictate terms and decide how to fix it is nonsense. Do you really think he'll do it right to make you happy or will he do it cheap to make himself happy? He's already mentally preparing you for a screw job. Either "It won't match" which makes you believe that fixing it is a mistake or that it will be a minor thing to repair when you repaint the whole car--which he's encouraging you to think about doing because otherwise it "won't look right." Either way, he's trying to make it so that he won't be responsible and you'll take over because it's just too much of a hassle to fix. Think about it.

 

There is only one right course of action. Call your insurance company, file a claim, let them take it from there. The worst that will happen is your car gets fixed quickly and properly and the shop owner thinks you're a jerk. I think I could live with that.

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, ted sweet said:

next question is what amount is car insured? i have seem the need for a total repaint result in collectors cars being totalled

 

Very true.  Appraisers would rather total a car if they can as to avoid any involvement in any sort of unclear repair process that often ends up costing more.  Of course any total loss can be retained for the right price, but at that point, the owner is on their own as far as repairs.

Edited by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

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You guys really think their going to total that car because of that scratch?

 

Ok...

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I spent yesterday cleaning up the mess and Thursday cleaning it as well about 8 hours total. I also took it around to get some estimates and second and third opinions on the damage yesterday so I have knowledge on what has to be done. I called my insurance last week and they will be coming out this week. My schedule is crazy and l have limited time for them to come out.

 

I will be fighting to get the car repainted as I don’t want a zebra print car.  Also repainting the cars one fender and it not matching ruins the originality of the car.  None of the shops I went to reliably said they could match the paint. Also if the car is repainted a few small dents and rust areas have to be fixed as a part of the process. Recently I upped the insurance on all my other classics except this one because it was at the shop. Mine is a driver but it should be done right. It has the flathead 8 (replaced in the 50s)and 12 volt system. It also still needs an interior 

 

on a positive note I drove it about 30 miles yesterday and it runs great and the 12 volt system is fantastic 0 problems starting or driving it. I took these photos where my grandpa worked for 50 years, now long closed. 

248C0D70-B1A3-45EE-B5B8-F039A0D270A3.jpeg

587CB406-6494-46FE-88FE-D1FBB72DDC67.jpeg

Edited by MarkV (see edit history)

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11 hours ago, billorn said:

You guys really think their going to total that car because of that scratch?

 

Ok...

 

Since we have no idea what it is insured for (nor should we, that’s a private decision), it is very possible.  And it’s far from a “scratch.”  If the insurer can get out of it by simply paying the coverage amount, they will.  

 

I love that car!  The full photos really do it justice.

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This is tough situation.  A good shop could paint the fender and match pretty good.  I'm sure it would be a lot closer than the brown fender to door on the Cadillac of your avatar.   Fenderweldt is your friend and your dividing line for the color.  They aren't going to be able to whip up a shelf color,  it will take some tinting.  Modern collision shops aren't going to do it.  Easier to say they can't and onto the next collision job.  

 

I think the wiring shop owes you a repaired fender but not a complete paint job.   I don't know anything about the insurace end of it.  A stand up show will take care of you but a stand up shop isn't going to take 2.5 years to do a harness.  

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You seem to be interested in originality, but changed the car to 12 volts?  It looks like an older paint job in the first place, so I’m not sure why you think you’re owed a new paint job on the whole car.  Maybe I’m being naive, but I can’t imagine taking a car to a shop and let them sit the car outside month after month.  You said you took some pictures six month ago - did you not notice it being stored outside at that time?  Did you occasionally stop by the shop to check progress and find it sitting outside?  I think the shop owes you an explanation and a fix and repaint on the fender.  I think you owe yourself a rethink on how you handle repairs to your car in the future.

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31 minutes ago, Taylormade said:

You seem to be interested in originality, but changed the car to 12 volts?  It looks like an older paint job in the first place, so I’m not sure why you think you’re owed a new paint job on the whole car.  Maybe I’m being naive, but I can’t imagine taking a car to a shop and let them sit the car outside month after month.  You said you took some pictures six month ago - did you not notice it being stored outside at that time?  Did you occasionally stop by the shop to check progress and find it sitting outside?  I think the shop owes you an explanation and a fix and repaint on the fender.  I think you owe yourself a rethink on how you handle repairs to your car in the future.

 

Yes unoriginal 12 volts and the flathead 8 that was installed in the 50s because the 12s on these were horrible. My meaning in original was the fact that the paint matches currently and has aged evenly. No one said that I feel I was owed a paint job but originality or not the car needs to match whether late model or classic. If they cannot match the paint then it will have to be painted. The insurance and the body shop can make that determination. As someone mentioned earlier this is why I pay for insurance. FYI my moms 2009 rav 4 was hit and insurance paid for a complete repaint because it clearly would not match after a repair, this was in 2013 or so. 

 

As as far as the shop goes whether this happened inside or outside or wherever it does not matter, they did it and they are on the hook. The paint regardless would not have matched 3 years ago or today because of the color it is and the age of the paint. Estimates for repair of the fender are around $1200. Like I said though I will let my insurance handle it and the shop. 

Edited by MarkV (see edit history)

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I had a paint shop match the 100% original paint on my 1941 Cadillac 60S a few years ago. The fender skirt was flaking badly and really hurt the look. When they were done, it matched perfectly (so perfectly that the car won 2012 HPOF Car of the Year at Hershey). They even knocked down the gloss a little bit so it would match the ancient lacquer. I don't know how they did it, but they nailed it and they didn't make it seem like it was particularly challenging. They use a spectrographic scanner that will measure the color on the car and tell them what to use to match it. The base for my dark blue Cadillac was some Nissan color that the computer tweaked to get it exact. Any good paint supplier should have this tech, they don't have to look through some old book to find the exact color code and then guess at how to make it match. The device even takes fading into account. Forget eyeballing it or hoping it's right when it's dry, this is how you do it today.

 

Looking at the paint on your car, you might also investigate having the body shop that's doing the painting do a proper cut and buff on it rather than you just hand buffing it every few months. A professional job will remove the top layer of oxidation (that's what makes it look faded and chalky) and will really brighten it up. It will also seal up better and the gloss will be more durable so you don't have to work so hard to keep it looking good. Maintain a good coat of wax on it and it should be good to go for another few decades. And as a side benefit, it will make that fender easier to match, particularly where gloss is concerned. 

 

Check out this all original 1940 Ford's black paint that Michael, my shop manager and detailer, wet sanded and buffed back to life (the difference was even more pronounced than it appears in photos):

 

33294115_2017-07-1513_03_47.thumb.jpg.8dc40d2624ed8c75fcc76e50ae50a1e6.jpg 007.thumb.JPG.10e6c89c04ce835dd4421337c275710c.JPG

 

Finally, your insurance company will ultimately decide how it gets fixed. They may want to paint just the fender, but if they're a true collector car insurance company, they'll do whatever it takes to make things right, not just expedient or cheap. Hagerty has frequently gone above and beyond for me and my clients, with one guy indeed getting a full car repaint because the panel that was repaired didn't quite match. Good insurance puts the car the way it was before, not just "good enough." Some insurance companies may just do the minimum, as the guys above are implying. If you have good coverage through a company specializing in collector cars, you really shouldn't have anything to worry about. If you have cut-rate coverage or a company that doesn't really want to insure old cars but does anyway because it's like free money (it is), well, they're going to treat it like any used car and give you a hard way to go. There's a difference and it matters.

 

I agree with the comment above--you're WAY beyond worrying about "originality" in that car. That's not original paint, so you're not preserving anything or losing anything if you repaint it. But the car has a lot of meaning to you, so it should be right. That matters most of all.

 

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Not my fight, but an observation.

The insurance company (I guess the shop as well) should be required to make you whole.

However,  What is whole in this case. I don't see this as a show paint job in the first place, so you are not owed that.

That rust on the corner of the hood looks like a can of worms so they don't owe you that.

The paint is old and just OK for a driver.

So, a compromise is in order. That being said I suspect you will personally spend more on the new paint job and body work than whom ever ends up paying you off for the damage.

I think they probably owe you more than the repair in primer, but not much.

Its a tough situation as you weren't planning on spending anything as far as body work on this car as its a driver. But as luck would have it this happened.

Would it have happened if the shop didn't back burner it for so long? Probably not, but it did happen.

You may have a case against this shop beyond the damage because they took so long thus making it vulnerable. So do you hire a lawyer and come out even deeper under water? File a small claim and let Judge Judy decide?

I am afraid you should be prepared to put up with a mismatch or a primer spot and deal with it from there on your own.

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The insurance company will balk at paying to repair rust, dents, etc in the areas not related to the current damage, as they should. A whole repaint without fixing this will also look terrible. Stick with spotting the repair area.

 

I do not understand why a 2009 car in 2013 could not have been spotted in. That's what collision shops do all the time. Something sounds fishy here. And I speak as a collision shop owner for 13 years. Of course there are still those "that's as good as it gets" shops around. Avoid them!?

 

The spectrometer (spectrophotometer) usually does a good job, but sometimes the formula still needs a little tweaking. So painting test panel and let it dry is still the best method.

 

Yes, after spotting in the repair area to match the buffed (do not wax prior to painting) old paint, you will have to do your part and keep the older paint buffed and waxed to avoid color changing.

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Mark V I’m still curious. Why would you leave it in a shop for two and s half years just to get it rewired? A couple of weekends at best could have been sufficient if you purchased a decent wire set. As an example I took a Mustang original wire set that was in a box with nothing marked and rewired a 49 Ford pickup a friend put the mustang engine and trans in. It took two long 

Saturdays and a Sunday to have it completely hooked up and running. It wasn’t pretty under the dash but it worked, ran and cheap. I know very little about wiring a car. He was doing a very low budget rebuild, so I was just helping. 

 

As others have said you may need to start being a little more proactive regarding some of the things you are trying to accomplish with your toys. 

I truly hope this works out for you as you have a good looking car. Being a driver makes it even better in my view. Have fun

Dave S 

Edited by SC38DLS (see edit history)

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