MarkV Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 So my 48 Lincoln has suffered damage. Backstory: The car was dropped off 2.5 years ago for a rewire, new tire install and a few other things. The car is still there which is asinine. Anyway it is done and I went down there and sure enough this damage is on it. I have pictures of it from 6 months ago and this damage was not present. Obviously I am upset as to how long the car has taken and now this. I’ve known the owner for 13 years, he is going to have a body shop look at it tomorrow but I am not confident they can match the paint nor that they will do a good job. I feel the whole car will have to be repainted at this point. The car is filthy currently and needs to be polished because they let it sit outside. So I am not pleased, what should I do? I am leaning towards contacting my insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikefit Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I think I understand your frustration but take a deep breath it may not be the end of the world could be a good job and your frustration was for nothing just my thoughts. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39BuickEight Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Based on how they have treated you so far, I doubt letting them control repairing that is a good idea. If you contact your insurance company, you might not want to volunteer that it’s been stored outside and away from your house for 2.5 years. Just answer the questions they ask. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 My insurance allows outside storage and covers for it being at a repair shop or under restoration. I would have picked it up sooner the problem is they had it all torn down in a couple of months and apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I know it's too late now but I would have retrieved my car after about 3 months. Two and a half years for a rewire and tire change? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHuDWah Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 If it were me, I would NOT let the repair shop choose the body shop. I'd get an estimate from a body shop I trusted to repair it to my satisfaction (whatever that entailed) and have the repair shop give me that amount in cash and/or credit on their bill. If that didn't work, I'd claim it on my insurance and let them go after the repair shop for reimbursement. YMMV. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJFord54 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) I'm sort of lost for words on this. But frankly, and honestly, most of this lies on you. You allowed them to keep it for two years, you allowed them to keep it outside. i can only hope you are friends with him and he has some sort of insurance. I'd get several estimates from local shops that are of good quality and present them to him. Let the shops make the determination as to the color match vs. a repaint. Edited October 29, 2018 by AJFord54 (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 That is a real common story. USUALLY it is about a car the went in for BODY work. The car would be home in my garage right now. I had a warranty incident with a transmission rebuilder in Buffalo. I hung up from the call and called my nephew with a car dolly. Ask him what explicit means when his uncle gives explicit instructions. Bernie BTW my transmission problem was a cheap aftermarket filter installed with the rebuild. Should have done it myself to begin with. My Nephew did work on my convertible in his shop. He was young and I wanted to give him experience in a big job. I was there every week to pay for the hours and material accrued during that week. I had expectations of the total job and what the weekly increments would be. "Sorry, no time this week" was not an option. He learned how wrong that answer was too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 Well the big problem was a lot of unobtainable connectors and sockets, this was a good part of the delay on this but a lot of it was also on them. My problem is the paint is old but it is still very shiny and clear when clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Post a list of the connectors and sockets here with some photos and see how unobtainable they really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 5 hours ago, 39BuickEight said: Based on how they have treated you so far, I doubt letting them control repairing that is a good idea. If you contact your insurance company, you might not want to volunteer that it’s been stored outside and away from your house for 2.5 years. Just answer the questions they ask. I agree call your insurance and you decide who is going to repair your car 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 18 hours ago, MarkV said: Well the big problem was a lot of unobtainable connectors and sockets, this was a good part of the delay on this but a lot of it was also on them. My problem is the paint is old but it is still very shiny and clear when clean. I had damaged my 60 Impala pulling it on to the trailer and because the paint could not be matched they paid to have the entire car painted, and that was not my plan at all. I would tell the guy who offered to have it fixed that you appreciate his offer and he could pay the deductible if there is any Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Did the shop volunteer the information that they had damaged your car, or did you have to find it out by yourself? The answer to that question may determine how honest and sincere the shop is. Accidents happen, and I hope the shop owner is forthright. The shop needs to pay for the damage. Don't put this claim on YOUR insurance, since it's not your fault. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 No I found it out by walking around the car “we didn’t see it” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, John_S_in_Penna said: Did the shop volunteer the information that they had damaged your car, or did you have to find it out by yourself? The answer to that question may determine how honest and sincere the shop is. Accidents happen, and I hope the shop owner is forthright. The shop needs to pay for the damage. Don't put this claim on YOUR insurance, since it's not your fault. I disagree, collector insurance is not like your everyday normal use car insurance. My rates did not go up at all and they paid close to 20K for the repaint. They had told me that the majority of the claims they receive involve a car that is not driven at the time of the incident. His insurance company will go after the shops insurance to make good. I would not trust this guy at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgreen Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, John_S_in_Penna said: The shop needs to pay for the damage. Don't put this claim on YOUR insurance, since it's not your fault. Oh no, I whole heartedly disagree about not getting your insurance involved. Definitely report it, they will subrogate the claim with the shop insurance company. Let the insurance companies fight this one out. This can work out two ways: 1) The shop has insurance and your insurance company collects, then you get repairs at the shop of your choice. Your rates do not go up when the shop's carrier pays. 2) The shop doesn't have insurance, now you are out of luck. Your insurance pays and your rates may go up or the claim is small enough that you pay and your rates don't go up. This brings up a good point for all of us that may rely on a third party to do all or some of our work. If they are insured, AND you have proper insurance, then you will most likely get reimbursed. If the shop is bubba's back yard shed and he is not insured then you have to rely on your insurance. Without another insurance company to subrogate, your carrier pays the loss then decides what to do with your premiums for next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 17 minutes ago, kgreen said: Oh no, I wholeheartedly disagree about not getting your insurance involved. Your observations, and John348's, are good. I was trying to say (with a layman's insurance knowledge) to be sure that justice prevails--that the shop pays. I agree that it's appropriate to call one's own insurance carrier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 All good points I am waiting to hear back from him today, and then progress from there. I hate it when this stuff happens and I know they won’t be able to match the paint unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 And if they do match the paint will it still match next year or the year after????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61polara Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) Specify that the paint will match or they will repaint the entire car. If you don't ask, you don't get. Have them buff out the paint before the match. I've followed your posts on here for many years. Hope all works out well for you. Edited October 31, 2018 by 61polara More info (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Remember that you have a certain amount of time to report it to your insurance company, Letting them know is not opening a claim, but it covering your butt. I would tell them that the repair shop said they would make good for it, but you just wanted them to be aware if they don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 A truly upstanding shop would pay for the damage even if they themselves didn't have insurance to cover it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 So I called aaa classic car and they said to wait until I want to file a claim to call again. I did not hear from the shop owner yesterday... I am going to let him know I am going to pick it up on Friday regardless if the last part of the wiring is done Friday or not. And then. I am going to make a claim. Below are attached pics of my car from last January at his shop, note no damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billorn Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 This is what your paying you're insurance company to do. File a claim and let them handle all of it. They will go after the shop owner to get the money back. Do you want your car fixed or a long fight with an unknown ending? Make a claim and fix the car. You pay insurance payments every month your allowed to make a claim and force them to do they're jobs. Let them worry about it. I promise they're lawyers are scarier than you for that shop owner. He has already shown that he is OK with blowing you off. He will not be able to ignore insurance company lawyers. Do you really trust their work now? I would be sure to inspect that new wiring VERY carefully before turning on lights or driving the car very far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 49 minutes ago, billorn said: This is what your paying you're insurance company to do. File a claim and let them handle all of it. They will go after the shop owner to get the money back. Do you want your car fixed or a long fight with an unknown ending? Make a claim and fix the car. You pay insurance payments every month your allowed to make a claim and force them to do they're jobs. Let them worry about it. I promise they're lawyers are scarier than you for that shop owner. He has already shown that he is OK with blowing you off. He will not be able to ignore insurance company lawyers. Do you really trust their work now? I would be sure to inspect that new wiring VERY carefully before turning on lights or driving the car very far. I bought a pre done harness so it was plug and play, I also had them convert it to 12 volt which was a pre made kit. The wiring has been done for about 4 days before I noticed this situation so I don’t doubt Anything is wrong. I looked over much of the work and they were very careful and obviously took their time. I just spoke to the owner and the body shop guy is coming I also let him know I will take it to my own person at the end of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billorn Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 With a 12 volt conversion I would be double sure to check everything. That ups the degree of difficulty in a big way. Nothing is plug and play bolt in easy no matter what anyone says. I hope their good at they're job but thats the kind of thing that is ripe for gremlins especially on an already complicated car like your Lincoln. If you have a problem with all this other stuff do you think you will be able to take it back to them to make it right? Hopefully no problems but I also hope this doesnt put you in a bad spot if you need fixes later. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 1 hour ago, billorn said: With a 12 volt conversion I would be double sure to check everything. That ups the degree of difficulty in a big way. Nothing is plug and play bolt in easy no matter what anyone says. I hope their good at they're job but thats the kind of thing that is ripe for gremlins especially on an already complicated car like your Lincoln. If you have a problem with all this other stuff do you think you will be able to take it back to them to make it right? Hopefully no problems but I also hope this doesnt put you in a bad spot if you need fixes later. Good luck! I made sure they replaced the bulbs with 12 volt and put the proper connectors to downgrade the voltage to 6 volt to various accessories. Most of the car can run on 12 volt, window pump, starter, without modification. I had them leave the radio, fans and heater unplugged. The rest of the sockets, bulbs, etc were replaced with 12 volt or upgraded due to rust in the case of the sockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, MarkV said: ... Below are attached pics of my car from last January at his shop, note no damage. Your car is nicer than I thought, Mark V. The first pictures posted--after the car sat outside and was damaged--made it look like a #4 condition car, where sitting outside could be appropriate. A car as nice as yours should not sit outside unless you and the shop owner agreed. No good shop would put a decent car outside for ANY length of time. And I doubt that you would agree to that. But the good news is that this episode will be behind you after a little while. You'll have your car to enjoy. Edited October 31, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 42 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said: Your car is nicer than I thought, Mark V. The first pictures posted--after the car sat outside and was damaged--made it look like a #4 condition car, where sitting outside could be appropriate. A car as nice as yours should not sit outside unless you and the shop owner agreed. No good shop would put a decent car outside for ANY length of time. And I doubt that you would agree to that. But the good news is that this episode will be behind you after a little while. You'll have your car to enjoy. It just needs a good buff, if I don’t do it every 6 months it looks like the pic I took on Monday. The earlier photos were after I cleaned it at his shop in January or so. It’s something to do with the ancient paint on it. I clay bar it along with scratch out and a wax to keep it nice. Ps it has been stored outside since 1974! And the paint predates that, it is usually under a cover the owner between my grandpa and I kept it in a car port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 So just got off the phone with the mechanic shop and the body person came out to look at it and said that the paint would be more shiny and would not be able to match. And then I was told that they could do the body work and leave it in primer until I decide to paint it! Yikes! I’m picking up the car today and cleaning it up then I’ll take it over to a friend of mine who will give me the whole picture. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Working alone on my car is my gentle way of showing intolerance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 Better view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61polara Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) Ask who their garage insurance is with. Tell them it will be in primer for less than 24 hours before they repaint the whole car. Get their insurance adjuster out there. Have you called your insurance company? They may help with the pressure on the garage. Call an attorney. Their fees may be much less than a repaint. Edited November 3, 2018 by 61polara (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) I’ve been waiting to see if you are going to continue to let them control the problem they cause or if you are going to wake up and take control. Multiple people have suggested you get your insurance company AND the shops insurance company involved. Have you done it, or are you waiting another year or two? You may have had a friendship with the owner, but if I had a friend treat me this way he would be on my a$$@ list, and I wouldn’t be very friendly. Crying on this forum is not going to get you beautiful car fixed. Get proactive NOW!! Sorry for being a little hard, but I’ve never understood not “Just doing it” Dave S Edited November 3, 2018 by SC38DLS (see edit history) 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) In a situation like this, your own insurance company should ALWAYS be the first and only call you make. They have resources you don't, it's their job to protect you (their client) and your assets. Your rates should not go up unless you acted negligently (I don't think you did, beyond letting a hack shop work on your car and store it outside). They WILL collect from the shop owner one way or another, so if you're worried about the poor multi-billion-dollar international insurance conglomerate's few hundred bucks to settle the claim, I guess that's admirable but ultimately counter-productive for you, the guy who was wronged. This is what they do, all day, every day. They have armies of people being paid to handle this stuff. They will either subrogate with the shop owner's insurance company (he should have some kind of minimal insurance no matter how lousy a business person he is) or they'll sue him personally and settle for an amount that is acceptable to them. In the meantime, your car is getting fixed at the shop of your choice and you can enjoy it instead of watching it rust in someone else's yard. Again: this is all they do. If you've ever complained about paying insurance, this is your chance to "cash in" on all that money you've just been "handing" them for all these years. Make them do their jobs for you, the paying customer. Letting the shop owner dictate terms and decide how to fix it is nonsense. Do you really think he'll do it right to make you happy or will he do it cheap to make himself happy? He's already mentally preparing you for a screw job. Either "It won't match" which makes you believe that fixing it is a mistake or that it will be a minor thing to repair when you repaint the whole car--which he's encouraging you to think about doing because otherwise it "won't look right." Either way, he's trying to make it so that he won't be responsible and you'll take over because it's just too much of a hassle to fix. Think about it. There is only one right course of action. Call your insurance company, file a claim, let them take it from there. The worst that will happen is your car gets fixed quickly and properly and the shop owner thinks you're a jerk. I think I could live with that. Edited November 3, 2018 by Matt Harwood (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted sweet Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) next question is what amount is car insured? i have seem the need for a total repaint result in collectors cars being totalled Edited November 3, 2018 by ted sweet (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39BuickEight Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, ted sweet said: next question is what amount is car insured? i have seem the need for a total repaint result in collectors cars being totalled Very true. Appraisers would rather total a car if they can as to avoid any involvement in any sort of unclear repair process that often ends up costing more. Of course any total loss can be retained for the right price, but at that point, the owner is on their own as far as repairs. Edited November 4, 2018 by 39BuickEight (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billorn Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 You guys really think their going to total that car because of that scratch? Ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) I spent yesterday cleaning up the mess and Thursday cleaning it as well about 8 hours total. I also took it around to get some estimates and second and third opinions on the damage yesterday so I have knowledge on what has to be done. I called my insurance last week and they will be coming out this week. My schedule is crazy and l have limited time for them to come out. I will be fighting to get the car repainted as I don’t want a zebra print car. Also repainting the cars one fender and it not matching ruins the originality of the car. None of the shops I went to reliably said they could match the paint. Also if the car is repainted a few small dents and rust areas have to be fixed as a part of the process. Recently I upped the insurance on all my other classics except this one because it was at the shop. Mine is a driver but it should be done right. It has the flathead 8 (replaced in the 50s)and 12 volt system. It also still needs an interior on a positive note I drove it about 30 miles yesterday and it runs great and the 12 volt system is fantastic 0 problems starting or driving it. I took these photos where my grandpa worked for 50 years, now long closed. Edited November 4, 2018 by MarkV (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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