neil morse

'41 Buick Limited on Ebay

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Thats tempting.  If it was in my backyard I might do something stupid.   

 

Still a few thousand more than I paid for our Cadillac.  Matt would know more than me but It feels like their aren't many buyers for this stuff anymore.   Seems like everyday stuff has been soft and only the collectors are paying big bucks for special cars. 

 

 I surely know most kids don't want anything to do with them.  I have 5 nephews and they don't care at all.  Couple of them are even embarrased to ride in our cars and pull their hoodies over their heads when we go through town.    With us not having kids it makes it easy to decide they will not get one for inheritance.     

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3 hours ago, Janousek said:

Thats tempting.  If it was in my backyard I might do something stupid.   

 

Still a few thousand more than I paid for our Cadillac.  Matt would know more than me but It feels like their aren't many buyers for this stuff anymore.   Seems like everyday stuff has been soft and only the collectors are paying big bucks for special cars. 

 

 I surely know most kids don't want anything to do with them.  I have 5 nephews and they don't care at all.  Couple of them are even embarrased to ride in our cars and pull their hoodies over their heads when we go through town.    With us not having kids it makes it easy to decide they will not get one for inheritance.     

That is so true, and it is a shame....the effects of street rodding an modifying I think....but that's just an opinion.  This car is also a Series 91, which means it is a straight 6 passenger sedan....no jump seats, no divider window.  Still for we old farts who love the pre-War cars of our youth, it is the King of the Buicks.  I've been tempted because I know the car, and it is the first 41 Limited I ever saw when I was 29 years old in 1967.  It was approprially named "The Parlor Car That Flies" by Buick.  When Cadillac saw them, Cadillac almost had a heart attack.  Longer, faster and more powerful than a Cadillac.  If I hadn't already invested in a 41Roadmaster and restored mine I certainly would have bought this particular Limited.  But at 80 there is too much water under the bridge now.  I'm almost afraid he'll meet my price and I wouldn't know what to do with another 41 Buick, even a Limited.  If that right rear leaking wheel cylinder has leaked onto the lining I have no idea where I'd get one.  The brakes are much larger than the other models.  I guess somebody, somewhere car reline brake shoes....maybe a big truck outfit.  Still, the bottom line is that buyers for the cars I love are dwindling as fast as World War I veterans.  

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I paid considerably more than $20K for mine, and while my interior and engine bay are nicer, mine is pretty grungy underneath. I don't care, I'm not going to fix it, it doesn't affect the car, but that super clean California undercarriage should be tempting if the rest of the car is in decent shape. You can chip away at it a little at a time like I have and end up with the best driving pre-war car ever built (sorry Packard guys). You can watch the videos of my car blasting along at 65 MPH with effortless ease, but you really don't get the full impression of what it's doing. At 95 degrees outside, it runs at 170, it tracks like a cruise missile, it's nearly silent, and it smothers bumps like a hovercraft. The brakes are outrageously powerful. And despite weighing somewhat north of 5500 pounds, it still accelerates faster than almost anything else built prior to 1949. Nobody in the northeast Ohio region CCCA will race me anymore...

 

It's also worth noting that this seller started at $28,000 firm (don't ask me to take less) and is now at $20,000, so I suspect he's a very motivated seller. If what Earl says is true, I would be double sure to see the title, but otherwise, at $20K, I think this car is a winner. Who cares what it's worth later? If you're an enthusiast and a Buick fan, this is as good as it gets for pre-war and it's welcome at all the big events. Forget future values and have fun. Isn't that the point?

 

I have literally driven hundreds of other comparable cars and I personally own other big Classics, all of which are more valuable than the Limited. Nevertheless, the Limited is the only one that makes me smile every time I drive it. It should also tell you something that Earl, and several other previous owners I've spoken to, deeply regret selling their Limiteds. I know it would be a mistake for me to sell mine and that I would always regret it. I will not be selling mine, not ever.

 

I don't think they'll ever be valuable but I don't think they'll ever be worthless, either. And the guys who own them will be part of a small fraternity of people who own the greatest road car of the pre-war era and know it. I wish I could share with any of you fence-sitters how my car is treated like royalty at every BCA event I take it to. EVERYONE knows what it is, knows that's a special car. Sitting on the sidelines on this car makes no sense, not at this price.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

I paid considerably more than $20K for mine, and while my interior and engine bay are nicer, mine is pretty grungy underneath. I don't care, I'm not going to fix it, it doesn't affect the car, but that super clean California undercarriage should be tempting if the rest of the car is in decent shape. You can chip away at it a little at a time like I have and end up with the best driving pre-war car ever built (sorry Packard guys). You can watch the videos of my car blasting along at 65 MPH with effortless ease, but you really don't get the full impression of what it's doing. At 95 degrees outside, it runs at 170, it tracks like a cruise missile, it's nearly silent, and it smothers bumps like a hovercraft. The brakes are outrageously powerful. And despite weighing somewhat north of 5500 pounds, it still accelerates faster than almost anything else built prior to 1949. Nobody in the northeast Ohio region CCCA will race me anymore...

 

It's also worth noting that this seller started at $28,000 firm (don't ask me to take less) and is now at $20,000, so I suspect he's a very motivated seller. If what Earl says is true, I would be double sure to see the title, but otherwise, at $20K, I think this car is a winner. Who cares what it's worth later? If you're an enthusiast and a Buick fan, this is as good as it gets for pre-war and it's welcome at all the big events. Forget future values and have fun. Isn't that the point?

 

I have literally driven hundreds of other comparable cars and I personally own other big Classics, all of which are more valuable than the Limited. Nevertheless, the Limited is the only one that makes me smile every time I drive it. It should also tell you something that Earl, and several other previous owners I've spoken to, deeply regret selling their Limiteds. I know it would be a mistake for me to sell mine and that I would always regret it. I will not be selling mine, not ever.

 

I don't think they'll ever be valuable but I don't think they'll ever be worthless, either. And the guys who own them will be part of a small fraternity of people who own the greatest road car of the pre-war era and know it. I wish I could share with any of you fence-sitters how my car is treated like royalty at every BCA event I take it to. EVERYONE knows what it is, knows that's a special car. Sitting on the sidelines on this car makes no sense, not at this price.

 

 

Everything that Matt says is pretty much true.  I don't remember mine being that fast, but I do remember this car was driven both ways from California to Baltimore and back in 1967 with a stop in Pittsburgh in three days if the owner told me the truth.  The second time he had a wife and four kids in it, so he probably took longer...........in 1971.  I would have chosen this car to restore if the owner had a clear title, but when he didn't I moved on and spent my money on a Roadmaster.  What am I going to do with an additional well used 1941 Buick.  That said, I did inquire if he would take a price for it.  The previous owner put it up for a loan at a loan company to get money for his business he told me.  This owner told me that person failed to pay and it went through a a used car auction.  Being a dealer, he put in a bid and got it.....Cost him $1800 in shipping.  Would cost me another $1450 in shipping.  My only hold back is my age.  The AACA magazine was delivered today, and my '39 Buick convertible sedan is in it for sale.  I'm trying to cut back....to buy this car would just muddy the water for me.  I've got a 64 Buick Wildcat out on consignment.  If it sold I might take the gamble and sit around looking at this Limited and remember good times past.  Or, the money could be earning money.  By the way MATT, the right rear brake cylinder is leaking....if it is on the lining now, where could somebody go to get a new lining put on that big, big shoe?    The cylinder is the same as all of the others around that time. 

 

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There's a 1940 series 90 Limited for sale in the current (November/December ) issue of Antique Automobile for $6,000.?

Edited by Guest (see edit history)

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5 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

I paid considerably more than $20K for mine, and while my interior and engine bay are nicer, mine is pretty grungy underneath. I don't care, I'm not going to fix it, it doesn't affect the car, but that super clean California undercarriage should be tempting if the rest of the car is in decent shape. You can chip away at it a little at a time like I have and end up with the best driving pre-war car ever built (sorry Packard guys). You can watch the videos of my car blasting along at 65 MPH with effortless ease, but you really don't get the full impression of what it's doing. At 95 degrees outside, it runs at 170, it tracks like a cruise missile, it's nearly silent, and it smothers bumps like a hovercraft. The brakes are outrageously powerful. And despite weighing somewhat north of 5500 pounds, it still accelerates faster than almost anything else built prior to 1949. Nobody in the northeast Ohio region CCCA will race me anymore...

 

It's also worth noting that this seller started at $28,000 firm (don't ask me to take less) and is now at $20,000, so I suspect he's a very motivated seller. If what Earl says is true, I would be double sure to see the title, but otherwise, at $20K, I think this car is a winner. Who cares what it's worth later? If you're an enthusiast and a Buick fan, this is as good as it gets for pre-war and it's welcome at all the big events. Forget future values and have fun. Isn't that the point?

 

I have literally driven hundreds of other comparable cars and I personally own other big Classics, all of which are more valuable than the Limited. Nevertheless, the Limited is the only one that makes me smile every time I drive it. It should also tell you something that Earl, and several other previous owners I've spoken to, deeply regret selling their Limiteds. I know it would be a mistake for me to sell mine and that I would always regret it. I will not be selling mine, not ever.

 

I don't think they'll ever be valuable but I don't think they'll ever be worthless, either. And the guys who own them will be part of a small fraternity of people who own the greatest road car of the pre-war era and know it. I wish I could share with any of you fence-sitters how my car is treated like royalty at every BCA event I take it to. EVERYONE knows what it is, knows that's a special car. Sitting on the sidelines on this car makes no sense, not at this price.

 

 

 

My family has owned two 1941 Series 90 Limited Buicks.  They are great driving cars.  

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The price was raised back to $22,500 this afternoon.  Go figure as the kids say.  Oh well, it's his car.

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Dynaflash,  it's no big deal to get the shoes relined.  White Post or several others do it in a weeks turnaround.  One thing to know is if 1 wheel cylinder is leaking then they all are including master cylinder.  

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I looked over the ebay ad again.  For me the car looks usuable for a driver except the interior.  I can smell it through the ethernet cable.  That's the rabbit hole our Cadillac is falling down and the interior looked nicer than this.  It was a driver but where do you stop.  I don't know too many people that want to sit in 70+ year old broadcloth if it has an aroma.   

 

Unless your a trimmer looking for a project your bill is going to cost more than you'll pay for the car.  Then throw in a new steering wheel and paint the garnishes, dashboard, maybe some interior chrome work.  It's to the point where most average guys are out.  My phone never rings anymore for normal Joe looking for normal work.  

 

I hope someone on here buys it.  If I could go back I'd buy it in a second over my Cadillac.  

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There must have been some ebay glitch around 10 or 10:30 last night.  It was back up to $22,500, but this morning it is back down to $20,000.  I have asked an acquaintance in Kansas City to look at it.  He said he would call the owner last night, but I've not heard anything new.  I can do the interior for under $10K where I had my Roadmaster restored.  Leather was available in 1941.  If I did the car I'd do it in pleated red naugahyde I think.  There was a 41 Super at the Allentown National BCA Meet done in green pleated leather.  Well, maybe I wouldn't.  This car was originally two tone tan broadcloth.  If the paint is as good as my Roadmaster was, I'd probably leave it alone, but I can paint it for the same price.  I have a price quote on all of it, but I just can't go there at my age....have to think about the limited future and my wife...I'm 80.   If only the 64 Wildcat would sell first, though, I think I'd use that money and go for it.  The wiring harness would be an awful cost.  I hope somebody buys it before I weaken.  I don't have time or space.  Thanks for that information on White Post.  I didn't know they did brake linings.  I have a dozen or more boxes of Buick rivit brake linings with only a couple packs of rivits, and didn't know anybody who could put them on shoes.  Of course, none fit a Limited.  The price for refinished engine turned panels is $925 for the pair.  Woodgraining the dash, back of front seat, and wide garnish moldings would cost a small fortune.  There used to be a guy in Winter Haven, FL who did that, but I haven't heard anything from him in years now.  A steering wheel would be about $850 now I think....'39 wheels come up on eBay for around $795 recast.  I have a number in my cell phone for a guy who came to AACA Philadelphia meetings last year for a seminar.  I could call him and ask the price I guess.  Buy why?  Once you ever start, there is no stopping.  Everything you do, makes what  you don't do look even worse.  Anyway, my wife has serious surgery coming up next Monday, so that's all I can really think about now.

Edited by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

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Re-wiring is the big bugaboo.  The previous owner had a new, uninstalled wiring harness, but in all of the commotion it didn't convey to the new owner.  Al's 1940 80 series Limited was used in the old "Wonder Woman" series on TV, but I think this car was down for an engine overhaul at the time.  It was, at least, the last time I saw it, in 1979 when I visited him in Fullerton, CA.  Maybe the same friend bought the '40 and '42 from Al's daughter, I have no idea.  I've heard two different stories about his friend that he worked for at Cars of the Stars Museum.  I was told last week that the gentleman had 400 cars and sold them with the museum and then ended up getting some or all back again.  I only remember pictures of one, a 1929 or 1930 Cord with a searchlight on a post mounted to the runningboard.  The seventies and eighties don't sound long ago until you starting counting on your fingers, huh?

Edited by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

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36 minutes ago, B Jake Moran said:

It's situational for me despite my Debbie Downer attitudes. Get the daughter in college, feel pretty good about the retirement savings (I'm 55) and maybe at age 65 I buy a car like this that is "driver" quality.  I enjoy it for 10 years or so, and sell it at a loss.  As I sit around reading books and driving my new Ford Mustang convertible on nice fall days, the memories will sustain me.  We only rent them after all.  I'm envious, not jealous, of Matt and other young uns who can own these classics NOW and create memories.

 

To be completely honest, doing all this now was a very intentional decision--I'm not lucky or rich, I simply decided not to waste time. I watched my father get old and frustrated, and by the time he was able to retire and "enjoy" the things he enjoys, he was too old to do many of them. I see all these old guys in the car clubs who have the interest and the knowledge but their health is failing, so their ability to enjoy is hindered. One member of our local club is 94 years old and keeps trying to drive his cars and its TERRIFYING to be around him on the road and there's no way I'd ever ride with him. I'm sure not going to wait until I'm too old to wrangle an old car before I can own and drive one. I'm doing it NOW, regardless of what I have to do to make it happen.

 

It's not just cars. Melanie and I decided we're not going to wait until we're too old to enjoy life. We take our retirement in small pieces, now, while we can enjoy it properly. Vacations, going out to dinner, small things that improve the quality of our lives in a tangible way. I know I've said this a million times, but money is easy to get compared to time.

 

I spent most of my '30s thinking that if I could just get to a particular finish line, then everything would be OK. Then the finish line would change or life would change or whatever, and I never reached the goal. "As soon as we move to a new house, I'll be able to build the shop I want and finish the Century." Move to new house. "As soon as we finish the kitchen remodel, I'll be able to start on the shop I want." Kitchen is finished. "As soon as we pay off the new roof, then I can start my shop." Roof paid off. "As soon as I finish the shop, then I can finish the Century." Divorce, sell house, start all over. You see how it goes. You NEVER cross the finish line so you may as well enjoy the journey instead. I don't waste a lot of energy thinking about the future, I do all I can to enjoy the right now. The future will take care of itself and I might be dead or sick or paralyzed or some other life crisis will come up. I'm not foolish with my money, we will be able to take care of ourselves and put our kids through school, but at the same time, I refuse to wait and wait for the perfect time to be alive and I'm 100% positive that being young is better than being old. The future is going to be the same as the present. Hoping it will somehow be magically different after you cross a certain goal line is the same as Einstien's theory of insanity.

 

As Red said, "Get busy living or get busy dying." Those are your only choices. And make no mistake, it's a choice. You can choose to do what you want when you want to do it, or you can choose to wait and do nothing and just hope the future is somehow different than the present (hint: it won't be). Everything else is semantics.

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Amen.  After my father passed away in September, it only reinforced that spending time wisely is sometimes better than spending money wisely. 

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Dynaflash,  if you buy it,  send me the brake linings I'll take care of you.  I have an old brake lining machine but I don't advertise it.    It would be a snap to rivet those pads onto the shoes.   I've been buying the Kanter complete brakes for most everything but my 42' wasn't listed.   I'm not exactly sure the chassis differences between our cars.  I know the frame is the same and I have open driveshaft with leaf springs.  I don't know if the axles back then are different or the front brakes.   They are big brakes though.  

 

Really to do a proper job you should turn the drums and arch the shoes.  Or brake doktor them.  That's been my favorite tool of the summer.  

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Janousek,  I have probably a dozen boxes of genuine Buick brake linings but no more than a dozen rivits.  They came in little bags, fell out of the boxes and were lost forever.  Unfortunately, they only fit the 40-50-60-70 models.  The 90 brake linings were bigger.  I guess White Post of some truck place has bigger linings.  I don't know how that works.  When I lived in Baltimore there was a truck place that could do all brakes and clutch disk linings.  I doubt they are even in business anymore, plus I don't remember the name.

 

All this talk about deathbeds and nursing homes.  I've seen some people in nursing homes and assisted care facilities paid for by the government, oh yeah.  And being in such a place in such a condition is worse than being dead.  My parents saved their money and paid their own way in a good place when that time came.  Some others in my family did not and the suffering was great.  Talk is cheap when you're young enough not to think it's only a short time off.

 

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Earl, I remember Al Newman's 41 very well from the first CHVA meets in Overlea. That dates me too, I'll be 77 in January. I remember driving your Limited around Severn, looking in the rear view mirror and wondering where the rear window was! I also remember driving my 35 to Hershey up I-83 and thinking nothing off it. I wouldn't dream of it now. We now have 4 Franklins in the family, plus 2 model T Fords, the 35 Ford , a 54 Citroen and a 50 Hudson. Dave

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10 hours ago, olympic said:

Earl, I remember Al Newman's 41 very well from the first CHVA meets in Overlea. That dates me too, I'll be 77 in January. I remember driving your Limited around Severn, looking in the rear view mirror and wondering where the rear window was! I also remember driving my 35 to Hershey up I-83 and thinking nothing off it. I wouldn't dream of it now. We now have 4 Franklins in the family, plus 2 model T Fords, the 35 Ford , a 54 Citroen and a 50 Hudson. Dave

Dave, how could I have forgotten the co-founder of CHVA!  I was just with Bob Trueax last week, and talked to Charlie Smith the week before that about the car.  Al had this car at both Overlea in '67 and Bonnie Blink in '71.  The Chairman of the 2017 AACA Grand National in Kansas City is going to actually review the car at my request.  The cost of Florida sales tax and shipping would be collossal but it is the same car....tired...but the same.  I've never seen you on here before.  There was once a member of Chesapeake Region who owned a fleet of Franklin's.  I think the founder of the Region in 1955 had a Franklin.  Bill Bond had a Franklin that belonged to former AACA National President Frank Tucker.  Do you have any of those cars?  Good to hear from you....been a long time.  Also,  you're 3 years younger than me.  There is a lot of history of the car in the old CHVA magazines and I still have them all.  Trueax and Smith said I should let the car pass on by as a memory.  Don Barlup told me I should buy it.  What do you think?

Edited by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

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I know were off topic but linings are sold by the foot and are of different thickness and width.  The rivets are a few bucks a 100 at mcmaster carr.  Brakes are the easy part of a car like this.  

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Janousek said:

I know were off topic but linings are sold by the foot and are of different thickness and width.  The rivets are a few bucks a 100 at mcmaster carr.  Brakes are the easy part of a car like this.  

 

 

That is good information Jan; something I've never heard before

 

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Mecum has a beautifully restored 1941 Model 91 Limited in their Las Vegas auction that is going on now. The car will be auctioned tomorrow. It is Lot F90.1 and the estimate is $60-80K. Plenty of pictures on mecum.com and you can also watch the auction live there. I realize that the car that is the subject of the original post has sentimental value for some here, but I trust that the same aficionados will enjoy viewing this fine example. Also, I realize it is a fair amount of money, but the $20K car could never be made to match the Mecum car for the estimated sale price. Aw heck, here's the link. Enjoy.

 

 

https://www.mecum.com/lots/LN1118-361275/1941-buick-model-91-limited-sedan/

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The rear stone pad moldings are wrong on the Mecum car for starters. They is from a Special and the rocker panel molding has somehow been modified.  They are correct on the eBay car and impossible to find.  The main thing is that I'm not in the market for just any 41 Limited......I'm only interested in this particular 41 Limited.  And yes, it is sentimental, but I'm not sure sentimental is worth as much as  $20,000 for that car in its condition at this stage of my life.  That said, I am serious about it if everything works out.

Edited by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

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I hope things work out for you as they should, and particularly your wife's surgery. Also, I know zilch about these cars, and am not interested in owning one. However, your comments about the stone guards on the Mecum car illustrate the importance of having someone who IS knowledgeable on a specific make and model examine it before one makes an expensive mistake. If you are so inclined, I think it would be a fun exercise to have the Buick experts on this forum chime in on what's right and whats wrong on the Mecum car. 

 Hopefully, this is not considered as thread " hijacking," since the ebay car doesn't belong to the OP. I hope that the Mecum car and the $6K car in the Antique Automobile are useful to compare the relative value of the ebay car.

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I noticed the stone guard moldings on the Mecum car right away, particularly since I need a set. Fortunately, I know a fellow who is gearing up to make some fresh ones and I've placed an order for two sets (you know, just in case). I've seen the prototypes and they're quite accurately done. I think I'll end up paying $400/pair for them and worth every penny to get the correct look for a Limited. Of course, I'll have to make a set of rocker panel moldings for my car since those, too, are unobtainium, but that's easier than the stone guard piece.

 

Other stuff on the Mecum car? It looks pretty good and I don't really have a lot of complaints. I suppose if it was right in front of me, I could pick it apart, but I don't see any glaring faults and the stone guard molding being incorrect is more a function of necessity than laziness or ignorance. I think the woodgrain pattern on the rear garnish moldings is pretty awful but beyond that, nothing jumps out as being totally wrong or hacked up. The engine bay isn't as crisply detailed as it could be, the air cleaner decal isn't right, the steering column and hand brake handle should be brown or gray (depending on interior), the plastic escutcheons around the door handles and window cranks are wrong, and I'll bet $50 that it has an exhaust leak. The fender skirt ornament appears to be the 19-inch version rather than the 21, but that's a debatable detail. I don't like the silver exhaust manifolds, but they were probably raw cast iron when they were new so I understand why they did it.

 

I do see lots of correct details that most restorers miss, including the horns with satin trumpets and gloss domes, the flutes in the headlight ornaments, bumper ends, and hood ornament are painted black, the interior plastics are the right color, there's an air snorkel for the air cleaner, the use of acorn nuts on the engine covers, and the color combination is excellent. It's a pretty car--I like the blue and it's appropriate on a big car like this. I sort of wish mine wasn't plain old black.

 

I like it a lot and think it's an excellent car for someone who wants a high-quality Limited. Nevertheless, I think they're wildly optimistic on the price--I bet bidding stops at $35,000 or so, but I sure hope I'm wrong!

 

PS: I stand by my statement that it would not be a mistake to buy the Ebay car at $20K if it has clean title.

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