Matt Harwood Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 I didn't mean to imply it's not viable and not a good car. I'm just saying that at a certain price, it's more valuable to me as parts, and we're getting close to that price. I would much rather see someone buy it, love it, and freshen it. I think it's worthy and I stand by my comments earlier in the thread that at this price it's a good buy for someone who wants one of these cars. But if the price keeps falling, well... Of course, the falling price also makes it more viable for someone who is going to freshen it. Lower buy-in means more funds available for restoration. I think the car could be taken up two notches with just some elbow grease and inexpensive parts, and selective freshening of the interior. Worth it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlownT Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Matt you hit the nail on the head. Spend a nominal amount of $$ and some spare hours this winter someone would have a decent driver come Spring. This one needs a little freshening and to be enjoyed. Thankfully I'm not a perfectionist. I just enjoy cars of all types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlownT Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 That's what I plan to do with it if someone doesn't put some money on the table soon. I really thought this car was worth $25k originally. The one at Mecum burst that bubble. My biggest hurdle is going to be redoing door panels in order to get rid of the speaker holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 20 hours ago, MCHinson said: I agree but I think this car is in that awkward place because it is too nice to justify a total restoration, but it is too rough for most people to enjoy as is. If the interior was in better shape, it would have sold long ago. The cost to do the interior hurts it's value. If you put a new interior kit in it, you would then want to freshen up the rest of the car. If you are going to have to do a fairly extensive restoration, then that price seems too high as a starting point for most people. I don't have the money or space to justify buying it but I am tempted. The one that recently sold at auction would be a better deal than buying this car and restoring it to the condition of the car that sold at auction. There is no kit for this car. I can get the interior done, and down well in wool here in Florida for $8,885. I have the quote. During the Sentimental Tour I suggested offering a price near this current one and he said never. Well, never has come I guess. But, I started thinking seriously around Nov 11 and contacted an acquaintance in the same town who agreed to look at and drive the car. The owner said, "no, since the man wants to come on a Sunday, and my Sunday time is too valuable." That's when I lost interest. Another car came on line (a '91 Park Avenue with only 3,000 miles on it, and it's on its way to me in a truck as I write this. Yeah, I had a fleeting thought buying a second car, but then remembered I'm 80 and have a CCCA Full Classic in my garage restored. When Al Newman performed his feats with this old 41 Limited back in '67 the car was only 26 years old (he drove it across country a 2nd time in 1971); the same age as the Park Avenue is now. Al drove the car hard and it was broken down in the garage the last time I saw it in 1979. I understand he and a friend overhauled the engine after that. That information came from the grandson of the friend. There are a lot more hard to find parts other than the engine, from wheel bearings to brake shoes to front and rear end parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: I didn't mean to imply it's not viable and not a good car. I'm just saying that at a certain price, it's more valuable to me as parts, and we're getting close to that price. I would much rather see someone buy it, love it, and freshen it. I think it's worthy and I stand by my comments earlier in the thread that at this price it's a good buy for someone who wants one of these cars. But if the price keeps falling, well... Of course, the falling price also makes it more viable for someone who is going to freshen it. Lower buy-in means more funds available for restoration. I think the car could be taken up two notches with just some elbow grease and inexpensive parts, and selective freshening of the interior. Worth it. It's got to have an interior, dash panels, and should have woodgraining......the hardest thing to get done. I would truly hate to see this car be anybody's parts car. I never actually offered a price. We had many conversations.....I asked in an email if I offered xxxx would he take it. He said never. I guess time changes all things including my age. Except for the total interior this car is about like my 41 Roadmaster was based on pictures. Mechanically, it's an unknown. Matt, there's a car in the Bugal that would make a better parts car. It's been for sale there for 3-4 years many parts for $15,000. A month ago before I bought my Park Avenue I would have offered less than the current asking price for this car. I was thinking even more if it passed inspection....but as I said, when inspection wasn't agreed to I lost interest. To be honest, my wife was expecting very dangerous surgery on Nov 19 (which wonderfully turned out totally successful) and what he said was he'd consider the inspection after her surgery was over. But, I didn't have the patience and then the 3,000 '91 Park Avenue turned up and my friend of 76 years lived nearby, gave it a full vote of confidence after driving it and I bought it. It's really what I need anyway.....a car that can be repaired on a long distance AACA tour. Somebody once said, "you can never go back in time." I have almost every piece of chrome, very good used here in my garage, except for the front fender side spears that I sold at Hershey. He and the grandson both told me one of those is cracked on the Limited. Edited November 29, 2018 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlownT Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 FACT: For the record Earl you never made me an offer on that car. You were throwing out numbers that were considerably less than I was interested in at the time. I didn't see the point in wasting a Sunday having someone poke and prod around my car when there was no money on the table. You had ample opportunity to purchase that car and chose not to do so. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 13 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: Well, unfortunately, that's about $2900 away from being a parts car for me. At $15,000 I'll buy it, pull the driveline, cut up the torque tube for an overdrive, put the rear end in my car to replace mine with the one-off bearing caps, maybe paint the wheels red for my car (or sell them--Limited wheels are unique and rather valuable and I know the owner of Bob's wants at least one), put the engine on a shelf, put the dual carb setup on the shelf, put the front carburetor on the rear slot of my car, take the rocker moldings for my car, and sell the rest using no-reserve auctions. Cut out the spare tire well and weld it into my car. Sell all the chrome and trim. Sell dashboard, gauges, wheel, radio, knobs, etc. Skirts are worth $1000 all by themselves. Bumper ends are another grand. I figure I can make $5-7000 on the selling of parts and that gives me a full supply of replacements for anything else I need in the future for less than it would cost me to buy it all later. Sad, but if it's not viable as a car, may as well put it to work. Matt you're trying to push me into buying the car I think. This car is far, far too good to be a parts car and it has a true history, even though all of us who remember are very old or dead. The co-founder of CHVA could barely vote in 1966 I think, but he's even 77 now. The car in the Bugal is a 90, not a 91 so you could get the jump seats too. It is only $15K and has a lot of spare parts too. He told me it has a dual manifold on the side which also gives you a single carb manifold to sell to all of the 1937-1951 big Buicks except '41-42. I've got an extra set of elephant ears I would sell for a grand but I'd want twelve hundred for them because they are pretty nice used. I'd like to see a real Buick collector get this car. You buy my '39 convertible sedan and I'll buy the Limited, how does tht sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlownT Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 FACT:. I offered to let Earl fly up and see the car and even drive it down for some BBQ. My treat. Wanted him to spend the day being able to get reaquainted with an old friend since I'm sensitive to his history with this vehicle. I told him maybe that was the solution since he kept giving me reasons he shouldn't buy it. FACT: I never even got a thank you for that offer. That's when I was done with Earl. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 1 minute ago, BlownT said: FACT: For the record Earl you never made me an offer on that car. You were throwing out numbers that were considerably less than I was interested in at the time. I didn't see the point in wasting a Sunday having someone poke and prod around my car when there was no money on the table. You had ample opportunity to purchase that car and chose not to do so. Very true Aaron. I said that. All I did was put a number on the table. Fact: I had just seen the Park Avenue before leaving Mississippi. I think what I said to you was, "If I offered you $17,500 and you took it.....? Then I might have asked if you would get a title in your name; or would you let an acquaintance come look at it?.....I don't remember exactly. When I asked Jim about coming to drive it and listed items to check, I was seriously considering the $20,000 at the time. If somebody wants to come look at and drive my '39 convertible sedan, I'll jump through hoops to let him do it. Once I bought the Park Avenue, then all bets were off. Unfortunately the ship has sailed. Yes, I would have liked to have the car. One other time on the phone, I said, "when you get down to $18,000 call me", and you said that would never happen. Your car is definitely worth what you're asking now to a Buick enthusiast. However, the train has passed in the night for me...........unless the convertible sells first, and nobody is calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 maybe a little too much info..................... lol! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 I agree with that Mercer. I'm bailing out now. Earl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) You should see what a guy has to go through here in Florida to get a new title when the car comes from out of state and it's a 2nd or 3rd party title. The 1991 Buick Park Avenue I just bought needed about 15 pages of documentation from the dealer....unbelievable. In Virginia I don't remember ever needing anything but the title....but I'm probably forgetful. I also don't remember all this paperwork when I lived in Maryland. Where are you located Richelie? Is it anything like it is here in Florida? This place scares the h---- out of me if the car is from out of state. In addition, if it is not 30 years old they tack another $225 fee on you for bringing the car in from out of state. Edited November 29, 2018 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 2 hours ago, RICHELIEUMOTORCAR said: Alright enough. I usually keep my mouth shut but not this time. Ah, are you serious? You would chop up a car this nice which has lasted almost 80 years, plus expecting to make money on the deal after forking out 15g? If it's not selling for 18g or 20g, that shows there is not a huge market for this car anymore which also shows a line will not be at your door looking to buy the parts. Sorry pal but this does not say much for trying to save fine old cars. That is what the hobby is all about, not about how much we can make on a deal. Nothing more, nothing less. I turn down any buyer who wants to chop up one of my cars. If that was one of my cars and someone offered me my asking price or even more but wanted to part it out, I think you know what I would tell them to do with their cash. 🙄 Did you read the entire thread? I'm this car's biggest cheerleader. I own one that I'll never sell. However, parts are incredibly rare and if this car isn't finding a home at what is currently an extremely reasonable price, it becomes tempting to me to stock up on unobtainium parts. I didn't say I was going to chop it up to make a buck, but I did say that anything I don't need or want I would sell and that I could make the economics of such a situation work well enough. My intention isn't to part it out and as I wrote, I hope that doesn't happen. But sooner or later, the economics of the thing changes. I paid more for my car which was in equivalent condition, just in different ways. Pump the brakes, Richlieu. Reading comprehension matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlownT Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Guys if it doesn't bring $17900 this round I'm gonna put everyone out of there misery and just hold onto it. These eBay listing are getting too expensive. Plus my boy painted this picture last night for me. That's my 41 out camping. Kinda points me to keeping this one. I've had a LOT of cars. This is one of his favorites. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 Price reduced to $16,900. That sure is tempting. I wish I had the cash and the room for it. Hopefully someone here will buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 (edited) Me too, but with all the fooling around I gave up on it, and bought a different car. I talked to the trucker today and it will be in tomorrow. He said to me, "this car is absolutely like new, how did you find it?" So, another missed opportunity. I was never meant to own Al Newman's car, no matter how much of an honor it would have been. I was never a match for Al Newman who could sell deep freezes to eskimos......in the words of one of my best friends who was also a contemporary of Al's, Bob Trueax of northern California. . Edited December 2, 2018 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TN2Lane Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 (edited) Hopefully this car has found a good home. Just for completeness, the Mecum "sold" for $44k 41 Limited mentioned previously... https://www.mecum.com/lots/LN1118-361275/1941-buick-model-91-limited-sedan/ Has reappeared at Blackhawk asking $65k https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/buick/91/2197358.html Edited December 15, 2018 by TN2Lane (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlownT Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 It has found a good home. It's staying right where it's at. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 https://www.ebay.com/itm/273659649423?ul_noapp=true 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 Yup -- it's baaaack! I saw it yesterday, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 The car came back on eBay today and it is sold tonight. Kinda like the old girlfriend that got away, er....only became available as a divorcee or widow long after you'd already married somebody else. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Did this beautiful car finally find a good home? ( I sure hope so!) Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 Funny you should mention it. It's back on Ebay today, for $15K. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1941-Buick-Series-90-Limited/273716795334?hash=item3fbacad7c6:g:wj4AAOSw-pNb64Xl:rk:7:pf:0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gossp Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 hours ago, neil morse said: Funny you should mention it. It's back on Ebay today, for $15K. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1941-Buick-Series-90-Limited/273716795334?hash=item3fbacad7c6:g:wj4AAOSw-pNb64Xl:rk:7:pf:0 attn Matt.... it is at your number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I'm actually in talks to acquire a different one, but if that falls through, I may very well make a move on this one. However, I don't think the seller wants to sell to me given our earlier conversations here. I do think this car is too nice to part out, which reduces my need--I don't need two drivers and I have enough projects on my plate to keep me busy for a good long time. I don't know, but I'm definitely watching... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 I have to admit, I'm scratching my head over this. This seems like a screaming deal to me (as it already did when priced slightly higher) -- are big limos just out of fashion these days? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 It's tainted. It's been through eBay so many times and has sold at least once so most viewers are going to assume that it has problems and other buyers saw it and backed out. If he really wants to sell it, he should let it cool off and take new photos so it looks like a fresh listing. I'd also lose the life story and complaining about buyers and just stick to describing the car. But that's just me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: It's tainted. It's been through eBay so many times and has sold at least once so most viewers are going to assume that it has problems and other buyers saw it and backed out. If he really wants to sell it, he should let it cool off and take new photos so it looks like a fresh listing. I'd also lose the life story and complaining about buyers and just stick to describing the car. But that's just me. Is it actually "tainted," or does it just seem that way? That's what I can't figure out. There must be more to this than meets the eye, that's all I can conclude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, neil morse said: Is it actually "tainted," or does it just seem that way? That's what I can't figure out. There must be more to this than meets the eye, that's all I can conclude. See? That's exactly how it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: See? That's exactly how it happens. Exactly how "what" happens? Matt, please stop talking in riddles. Do you know something about this car and why it hasn't sold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 10 hours ago, neil morse said: Exactly how "what" happens? Matt, please stop talking in riddles. Do you know something about this car and why it hasn't sold? No, nothing like that. This car seems fine to me, although I haven't personally inspected it. But the fact that it keeps reappearing is making you question it. THAT is entirely my point. Just by virtue of repeated eBay auctions, the car is "tainted" because now everyone thinks there's something wrong with it. You aren't sure either way, but you're wondering. So is everyone else. And nobody spends thousands of dollars on a vehicle that has them "wondering" about its fitness. It's "tainted." Truth, reality, fiction, whatever, the car is marked because it's been out there so many times with so many unconsummated deals. I didn't mean to be cryptic, only pointing out that your comment is proof of the idea that perception is reality and it's very hard to sell a car that has been repeatedly flogged on eBay with buyers backing out of the deals. This is why I don't use eBay as much as I used to and when I do, I use "Buy It Now or Best Offer" instead of an auction. When a $70,000 car bids to $12,000, I eventually get calls from guys saying, "Well, it only bid to $12,000 on eBay. Looks like the market has spoken. I'll be generous, though, and give you $15,000 for it." The internet is forever and any time someone searches for a particular car, they're going to find that eBay auction and see that it fell down. It's now "tainted." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjp69 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said: No, nothing like that. This car seems fine to me, although I haven't personally inspected it. But the fact that it keeps reappearing is making you question it. THAT is entirely my point. Just by virtue of repeated eBay auctions, the car is "tainted" because now everyone thinks there's something wrong with it. You aren't sure either way, but you're wondering. So is everyone else. And nobody spends thousands of dollars on a vehicle that has them "wondering" about its fitness. It's "tainted." Truth, reality, fiction, whatever, the car is marked because it's been out there so many times with so many unconsummated deals. I didn't mean to be cryptic, only pointing out that your comment is proof of the idea that perception is reality and it's very hard to sell a car that has been repeatedly flogged on eBay with buyers backing out of the deals. This is why I don't use eBay as much as I used to and when I do, I use "Buy It Now or Best Offer" instead of an auction. When a $70,000 car bids to $12,000, I eventually get calls from guys saying, "Well, it only bid to $12,000 on eBay. Looks like the market has spoken. I'll be generous, though, and give you $15,000 for it." The internet is forever and any time someone searches for a particular car, they're going to find that eBay auction and see that it fell down. It's now "tainted." Well said Matt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Thanks for clarifying, Matt. I get what you're saying now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) On 2/20/2019 at 6:42 PM, Matt Harwood said: I'm actually in talks to acquire a different one, but if that falls through, I may very well make a move on this one. However, I don't think the seller wants to sell to me given our earlier conversations here. I do think this car is too nice to part out, which reduces my need--I don't need two drivers and I have enough projects on my plate to keep me busy for a good long time. I don't know, but I'm definitely watching... David Tachney has a good parts car in Minnesota. Runs good, animals got inside and tore up the interior. That is what he has told me. Have no idea if he still has it. Seems to me when selling a car, all money looks green. I've got a car on consignment now, so probably no choice, but if I were selling it myself I'd sell it to anybody with the money unless he told me right out he was going to build a resto-rod or street-rod out of it. Edited February 25, 2019 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) I've thought about sending him an email to see if he would scan in both sides of his title so I could go down to DMV and see if they had any problems. And, if that passed I would consider making an offer, but it would be way off of his price giving him a 5K profit, but he wouldn't take it, so why bother. He told me early on what he paid for it and what it cost him to ship it. Plus, God only knows, he's spent a bundle advertising it on eBay. There is no way I can fly out there, and I can't seem to get my two cars sold, shipped and paid for. so, it is what it is. Besides at 80 I might not have time or money to restore just the interior, brakes and buy tires and don't forget rewiring the front harness. The car continues to haunt me though, but I've finished my 41 Roadmaster now. I think these two trains (cars) have passed in the night. I sure wish somebody would step up and buy it so I don't have to even think about it anymore. Edited February 26, 2019 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 I hope this nice car finally found a good home at last! Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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