pesd

16 valve blown turbo? white smoke

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OK, first thing...you are trying to remove the turbo due to suspecting it being bad, right?

 

From this picture I'd venture to say that the turbo isn't the problem. Of course pictures and diagnosing a complex mechanical system usually don't go hand in hand, but, hear me out.

 

I'm specifically looking at the turbine wheel. Number 1, it's dry. It's not caked with carbon or oil and it's not tinted green from coolant. Number 2, it doesn't appear that the turbine wheel has contacted the housing. There's no clear marks and the blade tips look good. Yes, the housing looks like it's slightly damp with oil residue, but that doesn't mean it's the turbo.

 

If you grab the hub of the turbine, does it move in any direction other than simply spinning? If not, I wouldn't pull the turbo as most likely it's not the issue.

 

As for removing those turbo bolts...I've personally never gotten them off without cutting or snapping them. Even on an engine stand this isn't fun.

Edited by Reaper1 (see edit history)

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Looking at all options, does anyone know of aftermarket turbo that will fit ( work with) the 16 valve?

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Thanks Reaper1, sent the question before I saw your reply.

I did wind up taking the exhaust manifold off. got the turbo out, definitely shot, lots of play up and down, ordered a rebuild kit but have not completely dissembled it.

a couple friends think the impeller fins might be bent. I'm hoping they might be ok, nothing to compare to.

options;

$120  Rebuild it using the $120 kit and hope that it runs properly (assuming the shaft and fins arn't that far gone)

$350  send it to Chris in Florida Turbos Unlimited who does rebuilds if possible (assuming the shaft and fins arn't that far gone)

$1000 New turbo I've seen online Rick at RDI performance (lots of TC parts)

maybe an aftermarket option? 

turb3.jpg

turb4.jpg

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Yeah, it looks like the compressor did make some contact with the housing.

 

My personal suggestion is to go through Chris at Turbos Unleashed. Great customer service, vendor that supports our community, great warranty, competitive pricing.

 

As for aftermarket options: none that are direct bolt-on that I'm aware of.

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Thanks,

I have already talked to Chris, he sounds very knowledgeable and professional, I will most likely ship this off to him to see if its rebuild able.

 

thx again,  peter

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Correction,    Chris in Arizona at Turbo's Unleashed,  Sorry Chris!

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Pesd,

 

I dont get on here as much as I used to but I did read the entire thread. Did you hear me yelling,  ITS NOT THE RINGS!😁  (about your compression check. Plugs out, throttle wide open, 5 to 6 'hits' that's the compression you hear of the one cylinder you have the tester in, I suspect it will be much higher if you did it this way).

 

On your turbo  rebuild/upgrade, there are lots of compressor wheels(cold side) available. Stock is approximately a '12T' 14T us a great upgrade and in fact, if your housing has damage, it's a good way to fix it by having it made larger for the 14T. 16T is great for a modified 16V motor but I dont reccomend it for a stock motor. Unfortunately the turbine wheel (hot side) is the largest wheel made for the IHI RBH5 family of turbos.

 

One last thought, when your brother said valve seals, he was likely right. Even tho only 14K on the motor they are 30+ years old and as mentioned earlier in the thread, valves themselves and guides were not of very good quality.

 

I'd say just do the turbo rebuild for now (14T😎) uncork the exhaust and crank the boost to 13.5.

 

AJ

 

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On 2/23/2019 at 8:58 PM, pesd said:

Thanks Reaper & Hemi,

  back at it today, thought I would have the turbo out tonight.

How the hell do you get the two lower nuts off connecting the Turbo to the exhaust manifold????

can get an open end on the nut but no room for any leverage to turn, and that looks like the easy one of the two.

got the upper, last two bolts to pull this. Any advise is more than appreciated. 

 

THANKS

Well, my friend, as a mechanic for a long long time, whatever you have to do, such as buying a couple of special wrenches to get to the nuts is the only thing I can think of at the moment. I replaced a turbo on a 16V TC a few years ago and used hand tools right out of my tool box. It may be that the wrenches you have available are just the wrong length or something. It is not an easy job, just look for a way that is feasible. I wish I could give you a more direct and helpful answer. 

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On 3/7/2019 at 10:16 AM, pesd said:

Correction,    Chris in Arizona at Turbo's Unleashed,  Sorry Chris!

PESD...I sent you a PM. ;)

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On 3/25/2019 at 2:37 PM, TwinCamFan said:

Thanks very much for trying to help out Reaper, I spoke to Chris today.

I had to pull the trigger on something soon, my car has been tying up my brothers lift/shop for almost a month now.

I today bought a new turbo from Rick Diogo in Florida, both Rick and Chris seem to be true "Stand-up Guys" trying to help with the TC "community"

I should have the turbo by the weekend and will start putting things back together Sunday, new front seals, valve cover gasket, fuel filter and misc..

Hopefully back on the road in a few weeks just in time for warmer weather, no salt roads in New England.

Also thanks to Hemi Dude who and Twin Cam Fan who I owe a reply to.. all you guys are great and I'm just a rookie in the TC world.

But... I'm sure I'm going to be reaching out to all of you as I reassemble this, but I'll try to Keep it to a minimum.

 

THANK AGAIN, 

           Peter (pesd)  

 

 

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Glad to hear you found a solution.

 

I'm more than happy to try and help...ask away!

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Pesd,

 

I'm a buyer on your old junk turbo if you wanna sell it. Shoot me the price + shipping to 92692 if you wanna recupe some costs.

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On 3/25/2019 at 2:37 PM, TwinCamFan said:

 

 

I would love to recupe some cost but I already told Chris at Turbo's Unleashed he could keep it, I hope I'm not going to regret it and whined up buying it back from him down the road if this one goes belly up.

thanks any how.

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OK, 

Any input is very appreciated.

Thanks again to Chris at Turbo Unleashed, Diogo at RDIperformance, Hemidude, Reaper1 and all that contributed.

Two weeks to getting this 16 valve on the road for summer weather, we know the turbo failed, new one installed, 13,000k on the origional, why would it fail, should I be looking at something else?

 

I dont want to fire this thing up to have another turbo blow after lots of money and hours this past winter,  last I drove it 70 mph on the highway for 10 miles, I noticed first time ever oil pressure was down considerably,

off the next ramp (not far) checked the dipstick, very low! three more blocks to a NAPA, added two quarts and that's when I saw clouds of smoke from the exhaust.    

 

Was it a anomaly with the turbo or possibly an oil pump fail or similar that starved the turbo causing it to fail? 

Something I should check before I turn the key and cross my fingers.

  Thanks,

       Peter D

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Honestly, without seeing the old turbo or getting the assessment on what caused the failure, it's hard to say.

 

Don't rely on the dash gauge for oil pressure. The sending units are known failure points. Have a mechanical gauge temporarily installed to make sure exactly what is going on. I truly suggest popping the oil pan off and checking the rod bearings. Those seem the be the "weak point" in the bottom end of these engines (check the mains while you're there, but they are typically OK).

 

I have a theory on the engine oil becoming acidic over time and eating the bearings. The mains don't seem to have an issue, but the rod bearings for some reason do.

 

Absolutely change the oil and filter before restarting. Make sure there's oil in the turbo supply line before you start the engine (leave the drainback off, crank engine over without firing until oil starts to drain out). Also, make sure the drainback is clear, because if it's blocked it will cause the oil to leak past the dynamic seals in the turbo and come out the exhaust and also force its way into the intake.

 

When you first start it, it's probably going to smoke like it was when you shut it off. It should clear up after a few minutes.

 

HTH! Keep us updated!

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Thanks Reaper,

 

Wise advise, hoping on getting it back on the road before Memorial day weekend and will keep all my helpful friends posted.

 

PESD

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