Daves1940Buick56S Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 As part of the Never Ending Brake Job, I ended up having to pull the master cylinder. A most unpleasant job without a lift. Anyhow, the master was fully plugged with mud and goo. I got it cleaned out and am in the middle of the rebuild. The bore is cruddy with some pitting. I gave it a quick hone but will have to send it to White Post for resleeving next Spring. Right now I am just trying to get it on the road to see if I have any other issues. So my question is: the compensating port seems to be a #73 drill. Pretty small. Does this sound right? Does any have a specification diameter in thousandths? Cheers, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37_Roadmaster_C Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Hi Dave, I have no help on the port size, but have a possible help for the sleeving of the cylinder. I sent my brake cylinders to Apple Hydraulics in New York. As they are close to you and they have a very quick turn around, you may be able to kill two birds with one stone and be closer to finished with one removal. Just my thoughts. Robin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuicksBuicks Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Before you go nuts restoring your original master cylinder, check out Bob's for a rebuild. I just bought one from Bob for around $140 a I recall and it was lined with a brass sleeve that can never rust. It comes with new piston, seals, and spring. My '37 will now never need another master cylinder rebuild due to rust. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daves1940Buick56S Posted October 6, 2018 Author Share Posted October 6, 2018 Agree, but I am trying to get it together enough for road testing in the near future. It will likely be done next year, hopefully while on a lift! Cheers, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 My experience with even a little pitting is that it will leak. The edge on the cup might work for a while over the pits before it is damaged and leaks. Just be aware that with a brass sleeve, the aluminium piston inside it is much more likely to corrode and stick (usually with the brakes on). A new one might take longer to start than an old one. This is galvanic corrosion. Some use DoT 5.0 (silicon) brake fluid to prevent this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daves1940Buick56S Posted October 6, 2018 Author Share Posted October 6, 2018 Understand. But I figure this will get me through the next few months. Cheers, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Roth Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Dave, consider getting with Doug Seybold for an exchange on your master cylinder. He is one of the best sources for this era Buick, and has helped me with my '37 Roadmaster many times. Doug Seybold, 440-835-1193 or 440-835-1522, 2761 Clark Pkwy., Westlake OH 44145 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stooge Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 On 10/4/2018 at 11:00 AM, BuicksBuicks said: Before you go nuts restoring your original master cylinder, check out Bob's for a rebuild. I just bought one from Bob for around $140 a I recall and it was lined with a brass sleeve that can never rust. It comes with new piston, seals, and spring. My '37 will now never need another master cylinder rebuild due to rust. By this, do you mean you had Bob's rebuild your master cylinder or you bought another master from them? I've seen he has the 37-38 series 80 and 90 for sale, but not the series 60. I've been having trouble finding a correct transmission side mount MC for my '37 Century since I bought it as a shell and didn't come with even a core/ candidate for rebuild one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Dave, I would suggest Apple Hydraulics for a rebuild of your master cylinder. Stooge, I need to look, I know I have a spare NOS Master Cylinder that I bought from Dave Tacheny. I don't remember if it is for my 1937 Century or my 1938 Century. The two are different, but I just don't remember which one that spare is. If I don't have one, Dave Tacheny would probably have one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stooge Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 16 minutes ago, MCHinson said: .... Stooge, I need to look, I know I have a spare NOS Master Cylinder that I bought from Dave Tacheny. I don't remember if it is for my 1937 Century or my 1938 Century. The two are different, but I just don't remember which one that spare is. If I don't have one, Dave Tacheny would probably have one. that's part of the conundrum, I have seen several styles for the 1938 and 1937 60 and larger series cars and am having a time with which style would be the correct one to pursue, and more importantly, although I am pretty certain that I have the correct 1937 6 bolt top transmission for the car, making sure the master fits the side mounts. And these are actually pictures from your 1938 project thread that I've had saved as part of references for the master cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Stooge, I was thinking that the 1937 and 1938 60 Series used different master cylinders but it appears that my memory was incorrect on that point. From looking at my 1937 and the 1938 master cylinders and the spare one that I have and checking the chassis parts manual, it appears that they are all the same. I suspect Dave Tacheny will have one. Be sure to tell him that you need the bracket to attach it to the side of the transmission. The spare one that I have is just the master cylinder it does not have the bracket. These photos are the spare NOS master cylinder that I bought from Dave Tacheny. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 It is interesting that the Century uses the same archaic brake and pedal mount as the Roadmaster (same trans). Bolted to the trans. The Specials pedals are bolted to the frame - a more modern approach. However, that might explain why the Special master cylinder fill is not aligned with the floorboard hole. Coes the Century line up? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) The Hollander 1952 gives the case number for Buick '37 60, 80, 90 series as 1298438, which matches what you have. Many of the internal parts were used up to 1940, with different cases. Edited October 8, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daves1940Buick56S Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 2 hours ago, DonMicheletti said: It is interesting that the Century uses the same archaic brake and pedal mount as the Roadmaster (same trans). Bolted to the trans. The Specials pedals are bolted to the frame - a more modern approach. However, that might explain why the Special master cylinder fill is not aligned with the floorboard hole. Coes the Century line up? Definitely not! The brake pedal return spring is what you see when you pop off the cover. The master fill is offset towards the trans. A real pain. In fact, this whole brake job has been a major pain. The new shoes have too much lining on the secondary side and I have had to grind down to make them fit. My hydraulic system is full of rusty mud and the master cylinder piston was stuck. Getting the master off and back on while lying on my back was brutal. All of the wheel cylinders are bad. The brake lines forward are (relatively) new but the lines back of the rear hose look original. Hoses were marginal. Emergency brake locknut was frozen and I had to split it off, as well as cut a screwdriver slot in the end of the cable so I could hold it securely while turning the adjusting nut (why didn't Buick think of that?). This is what happens when a car sits and maintenance is not done. So I finally got the right rear back together (left rear already done). Adjust the rear tomorrow then go back to the fronts and replace the wheel cylinders and hoses. Hope to be on the road by the weekend. Cheers, Dave 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Dave, Remember.. we do this for fun! That master cylinder fill situation is just plain idiotic. I hate to say it, but very rarely have to add fluid to either of the cars. I use DOT 5. (Now I'll have a problem tomorrow) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stooge Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Spinney and MC, the pictures and part numbers were exactly what i was looking for, now atleast i know what im looking for and how its set up. I've been trying to source some of the bigger parts my car was missing locally, but i need to put a list of brake and steering parts to ask dave about . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 After driving my 1937 Century from North Carolina to Indiana a while back, I really have been thinking that I should at least check (and should change) the fluid in the brake system. I have really been planning to pull all of the wheels to check the brake system, but I am not going to admit how long it has been since I have done anything with the brakes on that car. It runs, drives, and stops just fine and the brake master cylinder is so difficult to get to, it is one of those "out of sight, out of mind" items on the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuicksBuicks Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 The '37-40 frame mounted master cylinder that I got from Bob's was an exchange. The day that he received my old master cylinder, he shipped out the new-looking rebuild with brass sleeve and new internal parts. In doing my brake work I found that my brake fluid was now black, almost certainly from microscopic rust. All of that old fluid has now been drained and replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Once every 2 years is about the limit with conventional fluid. Otherwise you wind up with a bunch of rust and leaks. The black is a combination of things. Brake fluid that is contaminated by moisture gets darker (though the initial color varies by brand). Rust darkens the fluid too. The blackest part is ground up cup seals (from being drug through the rust). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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