Rarity ? Pure sales talk?

[chistech]

Thought I’d throw this out there because others have referenced the term rare to cooking. So, there are 5 grades of cooking meat, rare, medium rare, medium, medium well, and well. This means that each category makes up 20% of the total because there’s five (just explaining my math). So if we apply the term rare to our cars like it’s applied to cooking meat, those adds using the word rare are probably correct. An example would be if there were 100 cars originally made and 20 existed then they would all be rare. Another would be 10,000 total production and 2000 cars exist. Anything more than 20% of the original production of those cars cars known would mean they weren’t rare. I know this formula is going to get people going! 

 

I mainly posted this to be tongue tongue in cheek as I don’t think 2000 or even 20 of something is really rare but thought it would be fun to see the reactions.

[kgreen]

I've always interpreted rare to mean too few exist anymore so parts are hard to find and very expensive when you do find them.  In that case the car is near worthless.  Yes?

[marcapra]

23 hours ago, CarlLaFong said:

He's a railroad man and gets up very early in the morning

 

Well, he's a chump.  At least I can retire when I'm 90 on a comfortable income.  Where's that shotgun! 

[8E45E]

On ‎10‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 2:47 PM, jeff_a said:

"Rare" is kind of like "Yankee". To a lot of foreigners, all of us Americans are, going back to that song from the Revolution, "Yankee Doodle". I know a guy in England who imports American cars from the 50s and 60s, and his business is YankTanks. To someone from Alabama, a Yankee is a person from north of the Mason-Dixon Line. To someone from Pennsylvania, a Yankee lives in New England. As the story goes, a guy in Maine was asked if he was a Yankee and he said "No, I'm a Down Easter, Yankees would be the folks in Vermont who eat pancakes for supper".

 

An owner of a 1973 Chevrolet Chevelle at a car show might tell his neighbor it's a rare car, 1 of only 60 with that combination of interior & exterior colors, a 110 HP 307, power moonroof, etc., when it's not a rare car but just has a rare set of options. 1 of only 60 looks better on your display sign than 1 of only 386,737, the number of 1973 Chevelles. Maybe the hypothetical owner of the car could instead be celebrating the popularity of the Chevele nameplate. GM is better known for their large production numbers, not the micro-sized numbers of Duesenberg(about 1,100 total) or Rolls-Royce(about 3,000 a year these days). The Chevelle owner could brag on that and say he has 1 of only 424,000,000 Post-War GMs. I don't think that's a negative at all...but have yet to see it on a placard at a car show.

 

I've seen an ad for a first-generation Camaro with wood-grain side panels. Now THAT would be something you never see...like a '55 T-Bird with a trailer hitch! 

The 1967 Camaro 'Waikiki.  It remained a one-off concept.  http://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/beach-time-1967-camaro-hawaiian-shouldnt-they-have-shot-it-in-honolulu-instead-of-detroit/

 

IF you really want a production convertible with imitation wood panels like that from the late '60's either look for a '68-'69 Chrysler with the Sportsgrain option, or a '68 Mercury Park Lane with the 'Yacht-paneling' option.

 

Craig

Edited October 5, 2018 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[Pilgrim65]

25 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

The 1967 Camaro 'Waikiki.  It remained a one-off concept.  http://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/beach-time-1967-camaro-hawaiian-shouldnt-they-have-shot-it-in-honolulu-instead-of-detroit/

 

IF you really want a production convertible with imitation wood panels like that from the late '60's either look for a '69-'69 Chrysler with the Sportsgrain option, or a '68 Mercury Park Lane with the 'Yacht-paneling' option.

 

Craig

Mock Woodgrain on exterior of cars my pet hate , unless one of the 20s sporty ones when they were real wood.

[padgett]

Growing up in the only state that was occupied the whole war and with some vets still around, "Yankee" to me usually has a pejorative prefix.

[8E45E]

19 minutes ago, Pilgrim65 said:

Mock Woodgrain on exterior of cars my pet hate , unless one of the 20s sporty ones when they were real wood.

I don't care fake woodgrain on the exteriors either.  When the K-car-based LeBaron convertible came out in 1982 with that fake woodgrain, one of the salesman mentioned it comes with its own packing crate.

 

Craig

[jeff_a]

Craig, Thanks for the Curbside Classics link that explains what the car was. I didn't know it was a concept car. I imagine someone had this great idea to mock up a Camaro like that and show it around. Someone did a lot of work to modify it, but it's still a crazy idea. I guess this one isn't just rare, it's one of zero in existence. 

[Dynaflash8]

I consider any car that was built in production numbers lower than 1,000 qualifies for being rare off the top of its head.  Also convertibles lived a harder life and some of those that had production figures lower than 5,000 and are 75  years old I consider also rare.  And some few cars, even sedans are rare at around 5,000 cars because the other models of that make during the same year are very large in comparison.  I'm thinking of the 1946 and 1949 Buick Special.  The 1946 is rare because it was introduced very late in the year after WWII.  The 1949 Buick Special is equally rare because it was only built for a short time into 1949 because the new-bodied 1949 and 1950 Buicks were so late being introduced.  So, really, part of this gets down to the eye of the beholder I think.

[Restorer32]

20 hours ago, chistech said:

Thought I’d throw this out there because others have referenced the term rare to cooking. So, there are 5 grades of cooking meat, rare, medium rare, medium, medium well, and well. This means that each category makes up 20% of the total because there’s five (just explaining my math). So if we apply the term rare to our cars like it’s applied to cooking meat, those adds using the word rare are probably correct. An example would be if there were 100 cars originally made and 20 existed then they would all be rare. Another would be 10,000 total production and 2000 cars exist. Anything more than 20% of the original production of those cars cars known would mean they weren’t rare. I know this formula is going to get people going! 

 

I mainly posted this to be tongue tongue in cheek as I don’t think 2000 or even 20 of something is really rare but thought it would be fun to see the reactions.

 

I have yet to see a car advertised as "medium rare" though I have seen a few advertised as "well done".

[Pilgrim65]

6 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

 

I have yet to see a car advertised as "medium rare" though I have seen a few advertised as "well done".

In the Uk , We use the phase ‘we’ll done’ when someone  has tricked us and perhaps sold us  a bad car for to much money , I’ve been well and truly well done in the past .?

[kgreen]

10 hours ago, jeff_a said:

Craig, Thanks for the Curbside Classics link that explains what the car was. I didn't know it was a concept car. I imagine someone had this great idea to mock up a Camaro like that and show it around. Someone did a lot of work to modify it, but it's still a crazy idea. I guess this one isn't just rare, it's one of zero in existence. 

Do you suppose the Hawaii Camaro edition was a knee-jerk response to the California Mustang edition?  Big corporations having a little fight, possibly?

[8E45E]

9 hours ago, kgreen said:

Do you suppose the Hawaii Camaro edition was a knee-jerk response to the California Mustang edition?  Big corporations having a little fight, possibly?

The entire F-body (Camaro/Firebird) project was, PERIOD!   GM was totally caught off guard by the phenomenal success of the Mustang.

 

Craig

[1912Staver]

In the 1960's and early 70's many "special" promotional cars were built.  Usually based on sporty but affordable to most vehicles. Back then the general public was much more "car culture" oriented. They were intended to inspire everyday new car buyers in to a more sporting purchase than basic transportation needs might dictate.

   These days as often as not when cars of this type are built the base vehicle is a totally out of reach exotic. Not much connection to the auto industry except as a teenage fantasy .

Greg in Canada

[capngrog]

On ‎10‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 8:33 AM, 8E45E said:

The 1967 Camaro 'Waikiki.  It remained a one-off concept.  http://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/beach-time-1967-camaro-hawaiian-shouldnt-they-have-shot-it-in-honolulu-instead-of-detroit/

 

IF you really want a production convertible with imitation wood panels like that from the late '60's either look for a '68-'69 Chrysler with the Sportsgrain option, or a '68 Mercury Park Lane with the 'Yacht-paneling' option.

 

Craig

 

 

I've only been to Detroit once, but I lived in Miami for many years, and the above photo appears to have been taken from the public boat ramp park area on the 79th Street Causeway, looking south toward the downtown Miami area.  While neither Detroit nor Miami is Hawaii, at least Miami is a bit more tropical.

 

Cheers,

Grog

[Buffalowed Bill]

A couple comments come to mind that I want to get off my chest. In my youth I was probably guilty, as anyone, by making the statement that a particular car was of no collectible value. The statement was stupid, I had no psychic powers or Crystal ball.  About twenty five years ago I had mind set change which amounted to a 180 degree reversal. I can't pin point any one thing that changed my thinking, but it was tied to a new appreciation of automotive history, and the survival story that went with an individual car. 

 

IMO the mix up happens when we mix up monetary value with everything else that goes along with a vintage car. Just because a car doesn't carry a large dollar value doesn't mean that it isn't interesting. Case in point, this past weekend I spied something at a large car show that really piqued my interest. There was  a car model there that I had never seen before. It was an all original 1960 Edsel, four door htp. It had beautiful original paint and interior, and what's more had under the hood a 223 cu" straight six. On the unlikely occasion that I might have seen the car in my youth, I'm sure that I would have just blown it off. But there it was a survivor that just drew me to it like a magnet, as I askewed  many of the cars that I had coveted in my youth. The owner indicated that there were one hundred fifty four, four door htps built, and his research had not turned up another on like it. To me my interest in that car had absolutely no relation to it's dollar value. I want to also note that the car's rarity was only part of the equation. I was drawn to the car irrespective of it's production totals. My interest in all things automotive may not be mainstream, but people like me are surprisingly numerous and we are passionate. 

[padgett]

If drawn to a '60 Edsel may I suggest a '59 Bonnie ?

[Lahti35]

On 10/4/2018 at 2:44 PM, Pilgrim65 said:

In the Uk , We use the phase ‘we’ll done’ when someone  has tricked us and perhaps sold us  a bad car for to much money , I’ve been well and truly well done in the past .?

 

First rule of car buying: The seller is full of stuffing, don't believe what they say.

Second rule of car buying: The seller is full of stuffing, don't believe what they say.

 

I've been "well done" myself, lol!  

[8E45E]

On ‎10‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 12:57 PM, W_Higgins said:

I keep records on Hess and Eisenhardt converted '59 and '60 Lincolns and steer clear of the term "rare" simply because I don't want them equated to the multitude of more common cars that are described as such.  In the context of their era they were few, and today, compared to their regular production counterparts, they have a pretty high survival rate.  On my list there are over 50 accounted for by VIN out of almost 300 produced, so about 20% remain.  Every once in awhile one unknown to me will appear, but that's slowing down.   

 

What's most interesting to me is occasionally someone will call to discuss their car and some either simply don't listen or they deliberately take out of context the information I've given them, then the newly invented factoid winds up in print on the web when they post it for sale or what have you.  These are things I can track and tell you exactly where they originated.  After that, I can watch the mistake get repeated when other cars come up for sale and somebody grabs the information off an old listing and repeats it as fact.  This is even seen with notable auction and consignment outfits in their flowery descriptions.  That's the long way of saying that what is rare is scholarship and most everything else is just used car dealer salesmanship.

 

 

Now here is one example where one probably doesn't have to worry about being 'cloned'; unlike 1960 Fords which have been known to miraculously turn into 1960 Edsels!!

 

Craig

[W_Higgins]

On 10/11/2018 at 8:19 AM, 8E45E said:

Now here is one example where one probably doesn't have to worry about being 'cloned'; unlike 1960 Fords which have been known to miraculously turn into 1960 Edsels!!

 

Craig

Funny you should mention that.  Recently I ran across this car for sale and it is truthfully advertised as a "tribute car".  Why someone would go to the trouble I do not know because the real thing isn't really much more money than a regular production car.  It is refreshing to see that this seller is truthful about what it is.

[8E45E]

14 hours ago, W_Higgins said:

Funny you should mention that.  Recently I ran across this car for sale and it is truthfully advertised as a "tribute car".  Why someone would go to the trouble I do not know because the real thing isn't really much more money than a regular production car.  It is refreshing to see that this seller is truthful about what it is.

 

It would be interesting to know about the actual 'parts car' he must have used to scavenge all the unique parts to make his 'tribute car'.   I would be hard to believe the time and effort that would have gone into making that special front seat from scratch with the divider glass and the controls, if it is equipped with it.

 

Craig

[Frantz]

I've now had access to searching for customers specific cars both at Ford and now at Volvo. I can attest that many cars are indeed rare even when brand new. When I got my base model Fiesta with manual transmission I had to bring it from another dealer 3 hours away... and if they didn't want to trade, I would have had to go even further for the next one. I wanted a white hatch with no options. If memory serves me right, there were maybe 6 in 500 miles, but only one of those was white (and the only other options from Ford were black or silver). Over in the UK a similar options vehicle would be pretty common as Fiesta was the best selling model there.

[Aussie_610]

"Rare"

 

a sales term, used in the classic car industry for "nobody wanted it when it was sold new"

[901 Packard]

The term "rare", should only be used to describe a steak.