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powder coat vs sandblasting and paint


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my car is done     all the bugs are found and killed      but  the wheels need repainting-----in the south jersey area    who does powder coating and who does just blasting  in my area ???----I can paint wheels with poly----------------------what is pros and cons of both and cost

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Edited by broker-len (see edit history)
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For the cost I will never touch another set of wheels myself.   $70 a rim you hand them your crappy originals and they come back with a nice thick coating that is really hard to chip or scratch. For that $70 they also blast them clean.  First time you go to pop a hubcap off and a nice chunk of the paint you probably had to pay 150 just for materials for comes off,  you will say Wish I had powder coated them.  Same with tightening lug nuts. 

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9 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

If you like the fake plastic look, powder coating it hard to beat. 

 

 

Bob 

 

Bob are you OK? Your just a wet blanket on EVERYTHING these days. Whatever the topic is you seem to be against it or have something mean to say about it. Did something bad happen to you recently? Im not prying and I havent been here that long but I dont remember you being this angry always. I know your probly not doing it on purpose. Is everything OK? Im being sincere.

 

Back on subject I used powdercoating on the wheels of my 56' Olds and the stock white steel wheels on my pickup plus the wheels on my daily driver that I put custom wheels on and had them powdercoated black (2014 Chevy Impala). I dont feel that it looks like plastic and on both the Olds and the pickup I can still see the factory serial number stampings in the metal underneath. I dont think it covers any more thicker than paint. It doesnt look like a plastic coating. People think it looks like the plastic handles on a pliers or something but it doesnt. Like paint but much more durable and flexable. Im very pleased with the results on all three cars.

 

Bob I hope your OK.

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33 minutes ago, old car fan said:

I disagree,powder coating is awesome.Please give me your thoughts.Would like to know your experiences."

 

You are not disagreeing with me.  I did not say it wasn’t awesome, it is.  I said based on what I think, it’s usually overkill.

 

For $5, a can of rustoelum and some minor sanding works wonders on wheels.  I don’t see the monetary value in powder coating.

Edited by 39BuickEight (see edit history)
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I had a chance to tour Jay Leno's shop in about '05.  He had four full time guys doing the cars then and a full time lady cleaning and dusting the floors/walls/collectibles/and done cars and motorcycles.  When I went through they were working on a couple of restorations I think it was, or was it three?, one of which was a 30s Duesenburg (sic?).  I asked them what they painted the frames and suspension components with and you could have knocked me over with a feather when he said Rustoleum.  With that said I mess with old car stuff and have parted out several cars and buy and sell early 60s Pontiac super duty stuff as part of my hobby.  I have had a number of items/cars go through my hands that had components/floor undersides/frames coated with either powdercoat or POR15 or competing products.  Those coatings are fine until they get a chip in them, which can happen, and when it does rust can start and then creep under the surrounding finish and it comes off in sheets.

 

I like Rustoleum.

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2 minutes ago, 61-63 said:

I asked them what they painted the frames and suspension components with and you could have knocked me over with a feather when he said Rustoleum.

That's what I used on my frame, axle housing, radiator support and suspension pieces.  Rust Oleum industial grade gloss black.  It has a nice sheen to it. 

 

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Rustoleum works great on big pieces you can't easily powder coat or will be expensive to do because of the size or don't want to disassemble, but wheels that need to be a certain color besides one of the 10 colors on the rack,  powder is nice.  Some of us don't have a week to blast a set of wheels in our blast cabinet.  (yes it can take just about that long to do a crazy good job then all the steps to fill little rust pits then knock the paint off you spent all that time to put on when you mount them by hand because if you are too cheap for powder you are probably still mounting tires with taped up irons in your garage.  (hey I've done it on many of my own tires to save a few bucks.  If you have to work a job still and aren't retired plus have about 100 other jobs you should be working on besides the wheels,  it's money well spent. 

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I see you have wire wheels. So does my Dodge Brothers Eight.

 

I had the wheels rebuilt and powder coated in the mid-90s. It wasn't the best powder coating job, unfortunately, but I wanted to take the car on a particular run so I accepted them and repaired with paint. When they were cleaned up for coating, they had a grey coating on them that someone who should know said was an organic zinc. I didn't know what that meant so it went over my head.

 

Wire wheels "work" all the time - they have to, to mobilise their strength. All the wheels on the car (not the spares) rusted at the hub round the spoke holes. I also found the powder coating had lifted off in places under the tires and rust was having a good time. There was moisture in one or two of them - probably as a result of me using a detergent and water mix to ease fitting the tires. It never evaporates from inside the tire. Always fit tires dry!

 

So I had them redone in the last three or four years. This time, they are a good powder coating job and I had them put on a zinc undercoat as well. This will passivate any rust that might begin under a chip.

 

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Powder coating has come a long way since the nineties.  I agree with Spinneyhill, a good powder coat with a zinc undercoat is the way to go.  My coater gave me a bag of my wheel color powder.  You can mix it with clear epoxy for touch ups - although I haven’t had any chips yet.

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7 minutes ago, Taylormade said:

Powder coating has come a long way since the nineties.  I agree with Spinneyhill, a good powder coat with a zinc undercoat is the way to go.  My coater gave me a bag of my wheel color powder.  You can mix it with clear epoxy for touch ups - although I haven’t had any chips yet.

 

I was very happy with the rims on my 31 Chevy when I had it and I felt it was cost effective. The last car I restored was a 60 Impala and I had the inner fender wells done, as well as the rad support a nice semi gloss factory looking finish. If I had strip the parts by the primer and paint and factor in my time, paint would have cost more. That car even got the Senior Chevrolet Award in 2018 from the AACA 

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I had these wheels powder coated and they look exactly like the 2K paint on the body.  The beauty about powder coating, apart from the fact you give some one 5 dirty rough looking wheels and a couple of days later they come back looking like new, is when they are being coated, the powder is electrically charged and it wraps around the spoke so the coverage is even everywhere, where as with spray painting it is sometimes quite difficult to get paint on to the back of the spokes if there are other spokes in the way.  

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Edited by DavidAU (see edit history)
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10 hours ago, 61-63 said:

I had a chance to tour Jay Leno's shop in about '05.  He had four full time guys doing the cars then and a full time lady cleaning and dusting the floors/walls/collectibles/and done cars and motorcycles.  When I went through they were working on a couple of restorations I think it was, or was it three?, one of which was a 30s Duesenburg (sic?).  I asked them what they painted the frames and suspension components with and you could have knocked me over with a feather when he said Rustoleum.  With that said I mess with old car stuff and have parted out several cars and buy and sell early 60s Pontiac super duty stuff as part of my hobby.  I have had a number of items/cars go through my hands that had components/floor undersides/frames coated with either powdercoat or POR15 or competing products.  Those coatings are fine until they get a chip in them, which can happen, and when it does rust can start and then creep under the surrounding finish and it comes off in sheets.

 

I like Rustoleum.

 

Why does everyone assume that Leno knows much about restoration? He's a great guy with a lot of money and some great cars but that doesn't mean he's the final word on restoration techniques. My problem with powder coating is how to deal with pits and of course we would never have a wheel with adjustable spokes powdercoated.

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thank you for all your response--------in my area seems about $ 90.00 a wheel-----------there is a restoration company near my house     went to visit and ask about powder coating ---not in favor of it-  !!!!!!!-----------------if you want to get it off  to change color or chips    big expensive deal and if it chips can not just fix it    went to my garage and found my small tricon syphon sand blaster had some lose joints tightened them up      blows much better  buy play sand at home depot three bucks a bag   think I will just clean wheel my self and  and spray a good quality paint

Edited by broker-len (see edit history)
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The guy that does very nice restoration work by my house,  about 3 cars a year,  frame off, has all his wheels powder coated.  I imagine it just depends on the shop and whether they like it or not.  Rustoleum doesn't blast off well either.  You can touch up chips with a brush,  just the same as you do on painted wheels.  Neither one really bonds with the other paint like when applied the first time.  It's a patch and will only rust if not done before the rust starts or if not thuroughly covered.  If you drive it occasionally and store it properly in a low humidity environment they aren't going to rust. 

I know I have alot better things to do than blast wheels in my cabinet.  I can only imagine doing 4 in the driveway with an open blaster.   You will also need alot of bags of sand.  Play sand may not be coarse enough either,  it will just burnish the rust.  I use slag in my cabinet and it still takes a long time to really clean them so no rust will come back as you really have to get the nooks and crannies. 

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48 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

 

I know I have alot better things to do than blast wheels in my cabinet.  I can only imagine doing 4 in the driveway with an open blaster.   You will also need alot of bags of sand.  

 

I used 3 80 lb bags of blasting media on my entire car.  Frame, doors, fenders, suspension components, body shell, wheels, etc.  It can be reused several times.  Just put a tarp down and shovel it back in the blaster.   4 wheels can be done in the driveway with way less than a bag in a few hours.

Edited by 39BuickEight (see edit history)
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I think you will be surprised by how long wire wheels take to thoroughly blast. I remember my dad doing some Model A wheels when I was a kid and he stacked them up so that as he blasted, it hit them all. The ones on the bottom obviously didnt get super clean that way but as he finished the top one the one below it was also mostly done and so on. I thought it was pretty smart anyway.

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Four wheels in a few hours in your driveway?  Yeah if you want to just knock some of the rust and paint off,  unless you have a big commercial rig I find that hard to believe.   But then again  when I'm done you can't see any paint or rust on any part of the wheel inside or out.   When you are wearing the hood it probably all looks good through that little window that's all etched up.  I think I spent 4 hours in my driveways on the first 40 Ford rim I ever did and it wasn't spotless.  No sense in doing it unless you are going to strip it all down bare.  What you leave will fail.  If you are using pool sand as well it's going to take a while if it even works.  I've done alot of blasting in my cabinet and even stuff like a 4 blade fan seems to take atleast 1/2 an hour or more.  I always said having a blast cabinet is almost a curse as you tend to blast everything and spend alot of time in it that you weren't planning on. 

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I purchased this set of 4 1930 Marmon 19" wheels with the thought I might use them on a '31 CD8 Chrysler project I am rebuilding (same hubcap inner diameter)(since decided I am not using them as I found correct wheels). Since I was planning on a driver quality car, I decided to simply get them powder-coated black, including getting the lock-rings powder-coated in chrome. The shop offered to do all 4 for about $325US, including sandblasting and coating, but with no further labor for "smoothing". Wheels came back in perfect gloss black, but they were excellent to start with. In hindsight, I should have spent some time on the lock-rings smoothing out pitting and minor damage, since powder chrome only works well for a super smooth base. Much safer to put lock-rings on powdered than on painted wheels. I know a colleague who decided many years ago to do a high quality paint job on similar wheels. He said he spent 40 hours on each wheel smoothing out runs and missed spots, and had to apply 10 coats of paint to get a wonderful finish. So nothing is easy, but powder-coating sure gives a harder and more uniform finish at likely lower overall cost (unless you are doing it yourself with a rattle can). 

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1 hour ago, auburnseeker said:

Four wheels in a few hours in your driveway?  Yeah if you want to just knock some of the rust and paint off,  unless you have a big commercial rig I find that hard to believe.   But then again  when I'm done you can't see any paint or rust on any part of the wheel inside or out.   When you are wearing the hood it probably all looks good through that little window that's all etched up.  I think I spent 4 hours in my driveways on the first 40 Ford rim I ever did and it wasn't spotless.  No sense in doing it unless you are going to strip it all down bare.  What you leave will fail.  If you are using pool sand as well it's going to take a while if it even works.  I've done alot of blasting in my cabinet and even stuff like a 4 blade fan seems to take atleast 1/2 an hour or more.  I always said having a blast cabinet is almost a curse as you tend to blast everything and spend alot of time in it that you weren't planning on. 

Much of my blasting is documented in my restoration thread.  Just used the 5 gallon blaster from Harbor Freight.  The photos show how thorough I am. Everything in the car was brought to bare metal.   If you have the right grade of blasting material shot out of the right nozzle, it goes pretty quick.  Here is a sample pic of the frame detail and the setup in the driveway.  The frame took a full day.

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, 39BuickEight said:

Much of my blasting is documented in my restoration thread.  Just used the 5 gallon blaster from Harbor Freight.  The photos show how thorough I am. Everything in the car was brought to bare metal.   If you have the right grade of blasting material shot out of the right nozzle, it goes pretty quick.  Here is a sample pic of the frame detail and the setup in the driveway.  The frame took a full day.

 

 

 

 

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Thats impressive. I started with a small sandblaster like that but eventually upgraded to a larger model with wheels that I got from harbor freight. I think it holds 160 pounds of sand. I can blast a looooooonnnnggg time with it. It really sped up the job just because you dont have to stop and refil nearly as often. It probably cut my blasting time in half.

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That frame had to have had very light surface rust to get it done in a day.  Especially with having to pick up all the sand and sift it back in the pot.  I have never gotten that kind of production out of my cabinet with a good compressor and the sand constantly recycling.  My cabinet is the TP tools 976 I believe detailer with a bunch of upgrades. 

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8 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

That frame had to have had very light surface rust to get it done in a day.  Especially with having to pick up all the sand and sift it back in the pot.  I have never gotten that kind of production out of my cabinet with a good compressor and the sand constantly recycling.  My cabinet is the TP tools 976 I believe detailer with a bunch of upgrades. 

 

From what I can see on the cross rails, it looks to be pretty light surface rust and in great shape overall. I've been humming and hawing over deciding  to do my frame myself with my no-name blaster pot I have that's been good for small parts, upgrade to something a little more capable, or farm that job out to one of those mobile outfits. My frame has good bones, but is pretty crusty on the outside, and I suppose for about the same cost as hiring someone, I could have my own more capable blaster since I have gotten a bigger and better air compressor that can handle something like that, versus the one I had when I acquired my current sand blaster.

 

Concerning powder coat, a good friend of mine owns a commercial finishing shop, and the results I have seen with what powder coat can look like these days is really something else. I understand the statement about it sometimes looking thick and plasticy, and susceptible to chipping, and have seen many examples of both over the years. He's a big believer in powder coating wheels for the sake of ease of cleaning and durability, though the durability comes from prep, materials and practices used, and curing, with adequate curing seeming to be the biggest culprit in causing issues down the line, and with many shops not having a proper oven for it, the results can leave a bad taste in people's mouths. As he described it to me, when properly done and cured, its a very durable coating that will put up with years of regular driving, but to also think of it as a hard peppermint candy, really hard but when there is a good enough hit that its chipped or crack, its compromised.

 There's a good chance I will end up having the wheels and a few select pieces of steering and suspension off of my '37  powder coated, but some of the more susceptible pieces that may encounter rocks and road debris, will get painted. He's a good friend of mine and has offered to do whatever I need for free or for material cost, but I believe his price for wheels, depending on condition, to be around $100 per wheel.

Edited by Stooge (see edit history)
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Like anything, some parts were worse than others.  If I need to blast parts more often than once every few years, I would have something better, but for one restoration project, it worked great.  I don't understand the point of minimizing my work, but hey, it's the internet.

 

Sorry to have gotten this thread off course.

 

In my opinion, powdercoating is great, but not worth the expense on a car that stays in the garage 99% of the time and only driven a couple thousand miles per year at most.

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3 hours ago, Laughing Coyote said:

Curti, The answer would be no as far as filling pits prior to powder caoting. I ask my powder coater that question a long time ago in regards to something I needed to get done that was sub par.  She said even the fillers with metal in them don't work.

https://www.andersonpaintingco.com/services/

 

 

Interesting. I am facing this same choice with wheels right now. My local powdercoater told me I could fill the pits with Allmetal, and it would work fine. If it wont, I guess that means I will be doing paint.

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42 minutes ago, Bloo said:

Interesting. I am facing this same choice with wheels right now. My local powdercoater told me I could fill the pits with Allmetal, and it would work fine. If it wont, I guess that means I will be doing paint.

 

Bloo, You could get a small piece of scrap metal and drill a few dimples in it and fill it with the Allmetal stuff and see if your powder coater can run it with a batch he's already doing to see how it comes out. That way you would know for sure. I'm just going by what my powder coater told me and she's been doing it for a long time.  You never know until you try it.

 

 

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15 hours ago, Laughing Coyote said:

Curti, The answer would be no as far as filling pits prior to powder caoting. I ask my powder coater that question a long time ago in regards to something I needed to get done that was sub par.  She said even the fillers with metal in them don't work.

https://www.andersonpaintingco.com/services/

 

Thanks Coyote !  I researched this a number of years ago , and there was nothing. I thought perhaps the industry would have come up with something recently. 

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It seems to me it is about the conductance of the filler. If you have a filler that has less magnetic field around it because it has lower conductance, you wont get as much powder sticking to it. So you really need a filler that has similar conductance properties to the steel you are filling, so there is minimal effect on the electro-magnetic field across and around the filling.

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