ADade Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 If I'm not mistaken, my 18 Buick has a leather cone clutch. I'm about to pull the transmission for a clean-up and overhaul, and wondered if there's a better solution than leather - like kevlar maybe? Anybody have experience with this and/or know someone who could make the conversion for me? Suggestions very welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 I am reasonably sure that your 1918 Buick has a multiple disc clutch. 1918 was the first year for this. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 It is multidisc. I have a new friction lining set if you are interested. Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 Four cylinder or six cylinder? Makes a difference. I think the four cylinder is still a cone clutch. I vote for leather only. Worked for 100 years, why upgrade, or maybe down grade in performance. Leather is the only thing that I have put on my vehicles and will continue to put on my vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Larry, Thanks, I learned something today. You are correct on the 4 cylinder being a cone clutch in 1918. Then no 4 cylinder for three years (1919/20/21). Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWISE Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 ADade, Hi, I can answer your questions about Kevlar for a cone clutch. Andy Wise Andy's Garage 302-245-7276 Will be at Hershey Space C4P 49 -50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADade Posted September 26, 2018 Author Share Posted September 26, 2018 My car is a four cylinder. I was just under the car and it sure looks to me like a multi-disk clutch, but I've got conflicting responses here. Is the consensus that the six cylinder cars in 18 were multi-disk and the fours were cone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROD W Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 (edited) ADade, I,m not familiar with the 1918 four cylinder, but all Buicks I have worked on have an inspection plate at the top of the flywheel/gearbox bell housing. Remove the floorboards, remove the plate and the clutch can be easily seen.. A multi disc clutch looks very different to a cone clutch. These photo,s are not 1918 but show the inspection plate. Edited September 26, 2018 by ROD W (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 I do know that the 6-Cylinder Buicks went to the multiple disc clutch beginning with the 1918 models. Not sure what the fours did and when. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 4 cylinder Up to and including 1918, the 4 cylinder was a cone clutch. In 1919, the 4 cylinder engine and cone clutch was dropped. In 1922 the 4 cylinder was revived and they used the majority of the 6 cylinder clutch internals, but the clutch used 1 fewer metal driven disc, and 1 fewer friction plate disc and so a slightly less thick clutch. 6 cylinder Up to and including 1917 the 6 cylinder is a cone clutch, then 1918 the multi disc is used. For the 1925 Standard, they used the smaller clutch mechanism from the 4 cylinder. In 1926 the multi disc clutch style was changed. Attached is a photo of the 2 clutch multi disc packs for this era up to 1925 - Courtesy of Larry DiBarry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADade Posted September 26, 2018 Author Share Posted September 26, 2018 OK -- I removed the third floorboard and there is indeed an inspection window, but there's no cover (and no holes to affix a cover). Here's what I see. What's the verdict? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADade Posted September 26, 2018 Author Share Posted September 26, 2018 (edited) Here's a photo from the bottom of the bell housing Edited September 26, 2018 by ADade (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Sure looks like a cone clutch to me. Very similar to my 17D45. I wrestled with the relining of my clutch last year. There are advocates as well as detractors for leather, kevlar and woven friction lining. I ended up having a local restoration shop reline my clutch with woven material as they guaranteed their work. I have to date been happy with the clutch performance. One argument for the woven material is that without a restoration of the engine seals, and replacement of the bearings with sealed bearings, there is a significant potential for grease and oil to get on the clutch matierial and the leather and kevlar will not perform well with these materials on the clutch face. As I have said, I talked with people that are happy with all of these materials. I doubt that there is one correct material. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 I think Bob is right - there is more than one way that will work. When I go through the engine and transmission on my '16 D-45 I am going to have the cone lined with the Kevlar material. I am fully aware that these vehicles left the factory with leather on the cone. In order to keep the clutch from grabbing Neet's Foot Oil was applied. When it began slipping too much, Fuller's Earth Powder was applied - then it started grabbing again. The vicious circle was again repeated and the vehicle could not be driven and enjoyed. With the application of the oil the clutch assembly becomes a slobbery, gooey mess. This kid says "NO Way am I going to go through that". It comes down to the point that I am just plain lazy about this. I ain't gonna pull the floorboards out of the car every time I want to drive it. Sorry guys, but this is one time where modern technology tops the old fashioned work your butt off way. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Terry, Have you tried the Kevlar? Does it make the car any easier to drive? I have a 1913 Studebaker with a leather-lined cone clutch. I have never used fullers earth, and it is difficult to imagine a situation in which this clutch could ever slip much. I'm with you on the neatsfoot oil. It is the only thing that makes the car driveable, and it is a godawful slimy mess, and yes I pull my floorboards up all the time to put more on. I was under the impression that cone clutches lock the way they do because of the taper. If that is the case, I wonder how kevlar would make it any better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 My 1918 Pierce 48-B-5 came to me 2.75 years ago with Kevlar on its cone clutch vs. original leather. I was told by the previous owner that if the clutch squeaks or grabs, add ATF where one would normally add neatsfoot oil. In over 4,000 miles in those 2.75 years (I waited 18 years for this specific car to become available, so I'm playing with it a LOT!), I've not had to do any clutch maintenance except one tightening of the spring (not fun). The Kevlar is as smooth as silk in first, a tad grabby in reverse, and very positive on shifts in motion as is characteristic of cone clutches. 1918 was the last year of Pierce factory LEATHER cone clutch material, as for 1919-20 they used "composite" (perhaps like brake lining), still on a cone clutch. This car has 525 cid from six cylinders and is a torque monster, but the Kevlar has held up beautifully since the car was restored >35 years ago. I'll choose Kevlar for satisfactory performance and minimal maintenance when it's time to do this clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 I'm about to do the clutch on my 1918 6 cyl. Not looking forward to having to remove the rear end to pull the torque tube back. Since I don't have a hydraulic lift, it looks like the way to do it is, remove the gas tank, block up the frame using blocks where the gas tank was, and spending the next few days lying on my back. Sounds like fun......NOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Morgan. You dont have to remove the tank. Take the wheels off (very easy job) and with a floor jack you can back the differential enough to get the transmision and clutch out. It is a lot easier on these cars than with the Buicks with hydraulic brakes of later years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 On my car, the gas tank is in the way, it's 2 inches behind the differential. Plus, I want to redo the gas tank anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR Texas boy Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 9/26/2018 at 10:52 AM, ADade said: Hi sir I was wondering if you can send me a picture of the clutch. I have a 1918 Buick 4 cylinder it has been sitting for about 7 to 10 years yes it was taken apart and sitting for about 7 to 10 years we rebuilt the engine and now I need help on how the clutch goes on. If you can help that would be extremely helpful??. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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