just me

So whom would you sell it to?

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I sell cars (late model and new). Got a sorta rare one in and let a woman know who has been waiting. 5 years old 30k miles... lowest mileages available in the country and still falls under certified pre owned for manufacturer. She wants me to call her back when it's through the shop for check up. In the mean time another sales person gets a sight unseen deposit... he and his customer win. I have no problem with that. My customer wanted more info to make a decision, his did not and was ready to act.

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12 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

would think that, legally, he didn't do wrong. 

 

I would agree that, as you say, he didn't do anything "illegal". 

 

Remember too, though, that this was a deal that was across the country, no Paypal to send a deposit, no Internet to look at pictures, this was Friday afternoon so no time to send a deposit. 

 

In these days and times, when you can have instant communication and funds transfer with anyone in the world, then, yes, first money in hand first served.

 

Back in the days I'm talking, it was a man's word.  Back then, if I had someone tell me they'd buy a car from me (and I've bought and sold over 200 collector cars), then I held it for that person.  If they backed out, that was that, but until they backed out I upheld my "gentleman's agreement" with them.  No, someone telling you on the phone that they'll take a car is not legally binding, but again, that was a different time.

 

Today, I'd say the general consensus is the first person to make a deposit or have cash in hand is the winner.

 

In a similar fashion, if I make an offer on a car, that offer is good RIGHT NOW, and not later.  My first Full Classic was bought in this manner, there was a second buyer waiting in the wings, I was at the owner's apartment and made an offer on the car.  He asked how long the offer was good for, I told him until I  walked out the door, that he might get a better offer, and he might not...and he sold me the car.

 

Another time, I made a generous offer on a Full Classic that was in pieces.  Seller refused the offer, a few months went by, I bought another car.  Seller calls me up and says he'll take my offer now.....and I was no longer in a position to buy his car, so no deal.  He actually got mad at me, even though I'd made it clear that the offer was right here, right now.

 

I don't like making a "standing offer" because it's a no-win situation, seller can use that offer to get other offers, and now it's a bidding game.

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      14 hours ago, trimacar said:

"Kind of a sore subject with me. 

 

Years ago, I found out about a 1909 Pierce Model 24 roadster project for sale, this was pre-internet. 

 

I called the guy, we agreed on a price.  Since he was 3000 miles away,  I asked him to (at my expense) overnight me some pictures so I could confirm what he had and what I was buying.

 

Next day, received pictures, immediately called him.  Sorry, he said, someone came to my house last night and bought it.  I was sad and mad and....well, just add your adjective....

 

Did he do wrong?  Remember, pre-Internet, so no instant transfer of information nor funds (such as a Paypal deposit).  Did I do wrong?  Told him I'd take it upon verification with pictures, is that qualifier enough to push me off the buyer's ledge?

 

Darn if I know, all I know is that I wanted the car but it didn't happen.....and I'm still mad at somebody (maybe me?)"

 

_  13 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

"I would think that, legally, he didn't do wrong.  Been a while, but my recollection is that  a binding contract on goods worth more than $500 ordinarily requires a contract in writing, which didn't happen here.  And the fact that you wanted to see pictures suggests that there wasn't an orally agreed-to deal yet.  There was also no deal giving you a right to purchase the car at the agreed to price if you liked the pictures, as there was no consideration on that; you didn't give up anything in exchange for him holding open the offer just to you.  So a bummer, but not breach of contract.   My sense of things, at least.  On a car, the written contract is the agreement.  Everything up to that point is just a gentleman's agreement to later make an agreement, not a legal contract.

 

Whether it was a not-so-nice thing to do is another matter, and probably depends on the details of what the two of you said."

 

My response to all this is the potential buyer would NOT commit until he saw photographic evidence of what he was getting for his money.   The 'YES' wasn't firm  until after the local transaction was made.  Time was of essence, and it was not in favor of the interested buyer who was 3000 miles away.  Therefore, I see no wrongdoing here, although the seller might have offered to send a cheque to cover to reimburse the interested person who lost out on the sale who asked for photos of the car to be expedited on his dime.

 

Craig  

Edited by 8E45E (see edit history)
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 I was selling a car at my used car lot way back when, and while I was showing the car a second person showed up.

 The first buyer was kicking the tires and hemming and hawing for a while. so I excused myself to say hello and not ignore the second guy.

 The second guy said immediately, " I’ll buy the car right now at the asking price".

 I went over to the first guy and told him that the other guy wants to buy it, but I will give you first chance if you want it now.

 The first guy said no. I sold to the second guy on the spot. 

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You have to tell any potential buyer that their interest is appreciated, and work with them as you feel you need to in terms of photos/questions/etc, but at the same time, when the money is there, it will be sold.

Edited by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

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4 hours ago, Roger Walling said:

 I was selling a car at my used car lot way back when, and while I was showing the car a second person showed up.

 The first buyer was kicking the tires and hemming and hawing for a while. so I excused myself to say hello and not ignore the second guy.

 The second guy said immediately, " I’ll buy the car right now at the asking price".

 I went over to the first guy and told him that the other guy wants to buy it, but I will give you first chance if you want it now.

 The first guy said no. I sold to the second guy on the spot. 

 

I had a similar thing happen at the boat lot.

These two guys had their own little bidding war.

 

A few years ago I had amassed a collection of scrap brass. I'm talking a few thousand dollars worth.

I got interested in  a project about three hundred miles away. Saw the pics offer a pay pal deposit because I needed a day to sell the brass.

No problem, you don't need to go to the trouble of a deposit, the car is yours if you can get here within the three days we talked about.

So I sold the brass, hooked up the trailer early in the morning (this was the morning of the second day) called the guy to find out that he sold it.

I too would like to think that a mans word is worth something, I know mine is.

 

I had some semi tires that I took off of my motor home. Priced reasonable but one guy talked me down a bit and could be here in an hour.

No sooner hung up the phone when a guy called and offered me full price. I told him they were sold but leave me your number.

The first guy showed up and handed me a wad of money and quickly started loading up the tires.

I counted the money and he was a hundred short of our agreed price.

Without a flinch he blamed his wife and walked to the passenger door to get the other hundred.

I pulled the tires out of his pick up and booted him off of my place.

The second caller was there in a flash.

 

It is very difficult to soar with the eagles when the world is full of turkeys.

 

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2 hours ago, JACK M said:

counted the money and he was a hundred short of our agreed price.

 

Ha!  When I buy something now, I ask the seller to count the money in front of me.  Often, they say "I trust you" and I say no, I WANT you to count it, right in front of me, and be assured we're square.

 

Why do I do this?

 

Because one time I bought a project car, $10,000.  Spent the weekend at the guy's house gathering up the parts for the project, even stayed overnight at his place.  As we were finishing the deal, I gave him a large envelope with the $10K.  I'd counted it three times.

 

The man's wife grabs the envelope, and says "my daughter and I will go in the next room and count it".

 

A few minutes later, she walks back in and says "You're $100 short".  Not having witnessed her counting, and with the money gone out of my sight, I had no argument.  I paid her the other $100.  I believe to this day that she scammed me out of it.

 

So, please count the money in front of me.  You won't hurt my feelings, and we both walk away with a smile!

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On 9/18/2018 at 5:29 PM, billorn said:

 

Well theres "other people honest" and "look yourself in the mirror honest." Which is this?

 

There's nothing dishonest about selling it to the second guy. Morality has nothing to do with it either. The first person who says they want it at the selling price and who puts down a cash deposit gets it....

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23 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

 

There's nothing dishonest about selling it to the second guy. Morality has nothing to do with it either. The first person who says they want it at the selling price and who puts down a cash deposit gets it....

 

As in all of history, the problem is that we tend to judge past history with current morality.  It's not a correct assumption.  Standards have changed over the years, and the "instant gratification" has become the norm rather than the exception.

 

Morality changes.  What was accepted practice 30, 40, 50 or more years ago, cannot be judged by current moral or ethical standards.

 

I will tell you, when I got into the old car hobby in 1964, that if a man said he'd sell you a car, then that was it, done deal and end of discussion.  In 1965, I bought a car with a phone call, and there was NO QUESTION that the deal was done and would be honored.  Different times and different procedures.  Again, as I've stated, with instant pictures and instant payment, everyone has become dependent on "first cash in hand, everyone else loses", and a man's word that "I'll take it" is worthless.  That's not how it used to be, and we're the lesser for it. 

 

Things change.  Over the years, a "gentleman's agreement" has become rare and hard to enforce.  The discussion of legality is sad, as it whittles away at our trust in our fellow hobbyists.   I fully understand that money talks and so forth, but I will also tell you that 40 and 50 years ago, an agreement would be honored by a fair man, regardless of subsequent offers and up to the point where one or both of the parties involved said no.

Edited by trimacar (see edit history)

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Integrity isn,t dead yet. The last piece of acreage i bought was sealed with a hand shake and honered by the seller even though he was later offered a higher price. I took the last car i sold off the market and held it for 4 days for the buyer on the strength of a hand shake. Both were relativley high $ deals......bob

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On 9/18/2018 at 2:36 PM, just me said:

You decide to list an item for sale. It's on a site similar like the AACA forum where responses can be posted 

below the ad. You also provide your email address in the ad.

 

So you list the item in the morning. Someone responds a short time later requesting photos via email. Normally you post photos but more difficult on that site. You reply will send photos after lunch. The email states the potential buyer is very interested in the item.

 

Looking at the site a short while later someone else posts. They will take the item. Do you hold the item until you send promised photos or consider the item sold to the  person that committed?

 

What do you do?

 

Thanks in advance 

 

 

 

I had a similar situation where two people wanted to buy for the price I had asked for. I told both what was happening and that my position was this. Who ever puts the money in my hand,  it's sold as far as I'm concerned. Only fair thing to do IMO.

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On 9/18/2018 at 2:36 PM, just me said:

You decide to list an item for sale. It's on a site similar like the AACA forum where responses can be posted 

below the ad. You also provide your email address in the ad.

 

So you list the item in the morning. Someone responds a short time later requesting photos via email. Normally you post photos but more difficult on that site. You reply will send photos after lunch. The email states the potential buyer is very interested in the item.

 

Looking at the site a short while later someone else posts. They will take the item. Do you hold the item until you send promised photos or consider the item sold to the  person that committed?

 

What do you do?

 

Thanks in advance 

 

 

So please tell us what you ended up doing.

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In about 1978 I found a '32 Packard I wanted to buy.  The car was about 300 miles away.  Only a few thousand dollars but a lot of money to me at the time. This was a Thursday afternoon. I hurried to the bank and talked to the manager about a loan. He asked how much but I wasn't sure what it might take to buy the car. The bank Manager said  "Go ahead and buy the car. Give the owner a check and tell him to call us here at the bank. We will tell him the check is good even though we know it isn't. Then you stop in on Monday and we will do the paperwork". By Saturday afternoon the car was in my driveway. Try getting a bank to do that now. Back then a person's word was his bond,  even the word of a 30 year old with few assets.

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3 hours ago, AJFord54 said:

So please tell us what you ended up doing.

Fortunately I knew both were gentlemen. Sent an email to both asking them to settle the dispute and advise.

They agreed the first one who requested the photos would buy the item.

He agreed to sell the item to the other fellow if said individual needed it first at the cost he paid. 

 

Gentlemen can disagree and still be friends.

Ben Franklin

 

Stay tuned until next week on

Whom should you sell it to? 

 

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On 9/19/2018 at 6:08 AM, Roger Walling said:

 I was selling a car at my used car lot way back when, and while I was showing the car a second person showed up.

 The first buyer was kicking the tires and hemming and hawing for a while. so I excused myself to say hello and not ignore the second guy.

 The second guy said immediately, " I’ll buy the car right now at the asking price".

 I went over to the first guy and told him that the other guy wants to buy it, but I will give you first chance if you want it now.

 The first guy said no. I sold to the second guy on the spot. 

Yep.

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Kind of a then vs now. Today when I sell a car first I create a web site with all the pertinent information so when I post the "For Sale" it is all there. Second I know my banks routing and my wire transfer numbers. Accept cash or wire transfer at bank and first to place cash in my hand or account wins. Florida has a "Bill of Sale" form (can send a partly filled out .pdf) for a car or trailer and I make two copies, one for each of us.

 

I may buy or sell one a year or two but not a lot an have had no problems.

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On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 7:33 AM, Restorer32 said:

In about 1978 I found a '32 Packard I wanted to buy.  The car was about 300 miles away.  Only a few thousand dollars but a lot of money to me at the time. This was a Thursday afternoon. I hurried to the bank and talked to the manager about a loan. He asked how much but I wasn't sure what it might take to buy the car. The bank Manager said  "Go ahead and buy the car. Give the owner a check and tell him to call us here at the bank. We will tell him the check is good even though we know it isn't. Then you stop in on Monday and we will do the paperwork". By Saturday afternoon the car was in my driveway. Try getting a bank to do that now. Back then a person's word was his bond,  even the word of a 30 year old with few assets.

 

You know, it's funny your should post this.

 

In my hometown, I had a great relationship with a local bank.  Turned out my "personal banker" was not only a branch manager, but an old car guy.  I arranged to have him buy a 1955 Chevrolet truck belonging to a friend of mine, this was back in the early 1980's when trucks were, well, shall we say, hard to sell, no one wanted them.  He ended up restoring the car to pristine condition.

 

Since he was my banker, and knew old car, I did exactly what you state.  I'd call him and say something like "Hey, I just bought a 19whatever Gomobile, I need eleventy seven dollars in my account"...and no problem, it was there, and then I'd go sign the paperwork, as you state.

 

Things have changed, as I've discussed.  A man's word has been degraded, a verbal commitment, which at one time was binding, is now "first money in my hand" instead of honoring one's word.

 

Yes, some people say they will do a deal and back out.  Yes, it's tough negotiating out there.  But, if a man says "I'll take  it", then I believe it until I'm proven wrong...

Edited by trimacar (see edit history)
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At this point in my life, I kinda wish I had never trusted anyone. Ever.   -    Recently seriously burned again,   -  Old fool,  Cadillac Carl 

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I see nothing wrong with telling someone "first money" as long as it is clear. If someone wants me to hold something, they can pay a deposit and we will agree up front whether it is returnable. Personally I would much rather deal locally and face to face.

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Trim,

 

I had the same relationship with my stockbroker 25 years ago- would call and say, give me 1000 shares of xyz and youll have the cash in 24 hrs.

 

stock would be in my acct. instantyl.

 

One day I call and say, I need 1000 shares of Pixar in my acct and will have cash to you in 6 hours. New manager and he says, when you get the cash here, then you get the shares.

 

Need less to say I lost 8k on that deal, because I couldnt get the cash there soon enough. I also dont use that broker any longer either..........

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Listed 4 big lugged jeep wheels on CL for 350. a few years back.

 

guy comes out and offers me 300. I say no, best I can do is 325.

 

he says OK, and hands me the money and takes off. I count it and am 25. short.

 

Best 25. ever spent...................... wont EVER happen again!  :)

 

Trim, you are spot on with counting all cash in front of customer

 

 

adversely, sold a kayak and guy hands me the money. I start to count and stop 1/2 way and put in my pocket figuring we're good. he calls me up in the afternoon and says, I think I gave you 25. too much. I reach in my pocket and sure enough.

 

I repeatedly ask him for his address to send a refund and he refuses. I felt bad about that.............

 

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