VIN on Title was Made Up by DMV - Car has no VIN as manufactured in 1940

[corkskid]

I have a car with a VIN on the title that does not match any numbers on the car. I have been told that cars produced before a certain date (this one is from 1940) did not have VINs.

 

I have the original sale paperwork saying the car had no VIN and also the paperwork from when it was titled in Minnesota in 2007. It appears that when it was titled, someone (presumably someone from the DMV) added a number to the title as the VIN is not in the original purchaser's (my dad's) handwriting.

 

I have received advice from an auction house saying I should print a tag at a jeweler and attach it to the car in order to sell it as this has been a common problem for classic cars aand there is a federal law allowing this practice. "As long as there is a number on the car that matches the title, it can sell." Does anyone know if this is correct?  

[61polara]

Your first call or visit should be to Minnesota DMV to find out what your title is and what the number is.  In the 1940's either the motor number or body serial number was used on the title.  If this was a state issued VIN then the state would attach a state issued VIN number to the body.  Anyway, start with DMV.  As far as the auction house saying that there is a federal law allowing you to make a plate to match the title, ask them for a copy of the law.  I think you will get a "deer in the headlights" look.  Title laws are state only and this is BS.

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by 61polara
No change (see edit history)

[misterc9]

In some states abandoned or stolen vehicles that have been recovered are sold at Police auctions. The state will assign a vin # to the car after it is sold and all the paper work is submitted. This vin will be on the new title and a new tag affixed to the vehicle. The tag will usually say assigned identification number and the state name. One reason for this is  it frees the new owner of any problems associated with the cars original title ,liens or original owners etc.

Edited September 13, 2018 by misterc9 (see edit history)

[R Walling]

 I registered a home made trailer in Ma and the RMV gave me a small plastic sticker with a "vin" on it to be attached to the trailer.

 

  I don't know what to do if the sticker ever comes off or someone steals it and removes the sticker.

 ( I did, however weld my SS# in an inconspicious area on the frame.)

Edited September 13, 2018 by Roger Walling (see edit history)

[billorn]

What kind of car is it? Their might be a serial number on it somewhere that should match the title. Are you the buyer or seller? If your the buyer and there is a auction co involved then it should be they're problem to figure out the vin and title. If your the seller then you need to figure it out before you sell so the next guy doesnt buy a car he cant license. Thats not fair.

[auburnseeker]

Seems by 1940 all the manufactures were stamping the number somewhere in the chassis.  Often on the driver's side frame rail somewhere between the front of the front crossmember and the steering box.  Ford and Cadillac did for sure.   I've seen it in person on both.  That is the number I would want to see on the paperwork. 

[R Walling]

 What is the make and year?

[Graham Man]

Agreed what is the make of the car?  The like owners will know where to find the frame vin.  Have you found the engine identification numbers? should be a tag on the engine.  All cars in MN were titled to the engine number before 1950 ish.  I have done lots of work on titles in MN, they are great if you do not lie to them.  They also have forms to correct and get a new corrected title.  I would give MN at least high marks working with old car title problems, take the time, do the paperwork and have a nice correct MN title it will make selling your car someday a lot easier.

 

You did not say if it is currently registered in MN?  if it has not been registered (good license plate) in 3 years it falls off the system, so MN will have no record of the car.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Graham Man (see edit history)

[CHuDWah]

2 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

Seems by 1940 all the manufactures were stamping the number somewhere in the chassis.  Often on the driver's side frame rail somewhere between the front of the front crossmember and the steering box.  Ford and Cadillac did for sure.   I've seen it in person on both.  That is the number I would want to see on the paperwork. 

 

 

Ford numbered an engine after it passed inspection.  That usually was the number used on the title.  Starting with 1926 models, the number was stamped on the frame when the car was assembled.  However, depending on the model, the frame number may not be visible without removing the body - even then, it may be so faint that it's almost invisible.  And over the years, the engine may have been replaced so the number no longer matches the title.  So some states assign a new number when the car is re-titled and affix a sticker/plate/whatever with that number to the car.

[1939_Buick]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_identification_number

 

Car's of that era may have

- engine serial number

- chassis/frame number

- body number (typical for GM cars with a cowl data plate. That unique number is not the same as the frame number)

 

[28 Chrysler]

Minnesota did not have titles until 1974 . Before that they had transferable registrations. The manufacturer's number was used, body, engine etc. 

[auburnseeker]

Wellbeing it's stated as being a 1940  car.  If it's a Ford,  it should be on the rail.  I know lots can happen between the day it was stamped and today,  but you can't argue with a number on the owner's paperwork,  that matches one stamped in the rail.  If it's a Ford it will be there,  though the original horns may block the access some.  My horns aren't original and they block it a bit.  I also had to wipe the frame rail down with lacquer thinner to clean the paint off enough to get the full number.  You can take whatever you want as proof.  The only time you will have to worry about it,  is if someone says it's stolen and claims it as theirs, you have an insurance claim against it and the insurance company wants proof that it is the car they covered,  Probably only a real problem on a total loss,l or you or your estate tries to sell it down the road.  People are getting fussier about numbers every day. 

[corkskid]

Thanks for all of the advice. The 1940 Studebaker was purchased in WI and the title transferred to MN at the time of purchase. The WI title had this number on it. The MN DMV said I needed to Bond the car, whatever that means in order to sell it. Still researching.

[SC38dls]

On 9/13/2018 at 8:12 AM, Roger Walling said:

 I registered a home made trailer in Ma and the RM.......

 ( I did, however weld my SS# in an inconspicious area on the frame.)

I hope you’ve shown this to your kids so when you are gone they can grind it off before they sell it. ?

Dave S 

[ejboyd5]

Now that we know that it is a 1940 Studebaker, you can hope that some expert will come along and advise on the locations for the various identifying numbers for that make and year. Perhaps one of those numbers will match  the Minnesota title.  In any event, with numbers in hand, most states have procedures available to correct/verify old numbers which should allow the vehicle to be registered properly.  You might have more success by starting a new thread with a title such as, "Finding a 1940 Studebaker VIN."  Good fortune in your endeavor.

[Graham Man]

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Posted December 1, 2002

I have posted this question on the Studebaker fourm but there is not nearly the people that look at it as there is on this fourm. On the 1939 and 1940 Studebaker Champions, is there anywhere else on the car or chassis that the serial number is besides the plate that is on the left side of the chassis right behind the front wheel??

 

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Rick Hoover

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Posted December 2, 2002

As far as I know and from what information I have, that is the only place the VIN number was located on the 1939 and early 1940's. Then at some time in 1940, they started to place it on the left front door pillar.

Rick

[Graham Man]

 

Found this old post from our forum. (above)

 

The bonding is an insurance policy to protect the state from liability.

[Frank DuVal]

3 hours ago, SC38DLS said:

I hope you’ve shown this to your kids so when you are gone they can grind it off before they sell it.

 

Once you die, your SSN becomes public knowledge. You can search for a deceased person's SSN on several websites. I used to use the SSAs own online database, but I see no link to that now.

 

So, no need to remove the SSN from a trailer, that I see, once you die. NOW might be the time to remove it!?